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Also, here is the weather data from the most recent Vault release. This comes from the U.S. Weather Bureau which is now known as the National Weather Service. The data indicates the wind shifting (in Portland) from out of the southeast to out of the west to out of the south-southwest over the course of 2 or 3 hours.

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Here is the post along with the link. At no point did I claim that they were winds aloft, yet you fail to recognize that Tom's winds aloft data was from GROUND to 12,000 feet.

Chaucer, Tom Kaye's "winds aloft data was from GROUND to 12,000 feet" is exactly what I have been telling you.  The NOAA balloon data was the sole source of measured data used in predicting the winds aloft that the FAA issued for pilot planning purposes.  Except for the measured NOAA balloon data and what was measured at ground level and reported in the hourly sequences reports, everything else was a prediction.

The winds aloft were measured by the balloons from ground level up and we do not need to go above 10,000 feet above sea level here since that is as high as the airliner went in the WA and OR areas.

I feel like I'm being gaslighted.

This is what I have been telling YOU. Why are you trying to argue with me about it?

My point is that that NOAA data from Tom shows that the ground winds and winds aloft were fairly consistent with one another. Therefore, one could conclude that if we know the ground winds, the winds aloft would not be much different. The caveat is that the NOAA data provided by Tom comes from reporting  areas dozens about miles away from any reasonable jump spot. So, the data is of the winds aloft is merely estimates and extrapolations.

Chaucer, you seem to be unable to understand that the winds aloft were MEASURED by the balloon data. 

Also, your theory that the winds aloft will be in the same direction as the surface winds is baseless.  To disprove your theory, all you have to do is check the surface winds for several locations near where you live and those surface winds will probably be in completely different directions.

The FAA's publication, "Aviation Weather", is available free and online for anyone who wants to gain some knowledge of the subject.

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Also, here is the weather data from the most recent Vault release. This comes from the U.S. Weather Bureau which is now known as the National Weather Service. The data indicates the wind shifting (in Portland) from out of the southeast to out of the west to out of the south-southwest over the course of 2 or 3 hours.

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Here is the post along with the link. At no point did I claim that they were winds aloft, yet you fail to recognize that Tom's winds aloft data was from GROUND to 12,000 feet.

Chaucer, Tom Kaye's "winds aloft data was from GROUND to 12,000 feet" is exactly what I have been telling you.  The NOAA balloon data was the sole source of measured data used in predicting the winds aloft that the FAA issued for pilot planning purposes.  Except for the measured NOAA balloon data and what was measured at ground level and reported in the hourly sequences reports, everything else was a prediction.

The winds aloft were measured by the balloons from ground level up and we do not need to go above 10,000 feet above sea level here since that is as high as the airliner went in the WA and OR areas.

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As repeatedly pointed out to you, the only available winds aloft information for the Portland and Seattle areas is that provided by the NOAA balloon data and the FAA winds aloft data provided to pilots for flight planning.

Pointed out to me? I'm the one that posted the file with the data, Robert. You chose not to read it.

Discussing this topic with you is exhausting. What exactly have I said that you disagree with?

Chaucer, I am not aware of you posting a file with any meaningful data.  The only meaningful or realistic winds aloft data that I am aware of is that which Tom Kaye obtained and I believe it is all posted on this site.

So, what were the winds aloft between Ariel and Vancouver between 8:05pm and 8:20 pm on November 24th, 1971?

As repeatedly pointed out to you, the only available winds aloft information for the Portland and Seattle areas is that provided by the NOAA balloon data and the FAA winds aloft data provided to pilots for flight planning.

Again, again, and again, get the FAA's publication "Aviation Weather" and give it a thorough study.  If 17-year-old boys and girls have to study aviation weather to get pilot licenses then you should be able to handle the subject as well.

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Everything you just wrote has nothing to do with what I have said.

You don't even understand what I'm talking about, yet you want to argue with me.

Nothing can be gained from this discussion, so I am going to let it drop.

Chaucer, everything I posted above relates to the winds aloft on the evening of the hijacking.  The sources I cited are the only factual information that is available for those winds.

If you are claiming that you have other "sources" for those winds then you are mistaken because there are no other sources.   There were no Voodoo winds that evening.

Robert,
I have said nothing about the winds aloft except to cite Tom Kaye's radiosonde data. That data seems to indicate that the ground winds and winds aloft were pretty consistent without any extreme change. They also indicate a more southerly wind than is generally accepted.

The ground winds were estimates from reporting stations several miles away from any reasonable dropzone. No one knows exactly what the wind speed or direction was between 8:05 and 8:20 between Ariel and Vancouver.


None of this is new or particularly controversial. The only Voodoo appears to be you claiming otherwise.

Chaucer, again you are ignoring the winds aloft.