Author Topic: Tena Bar Money Find (Read 1433595 times)

Shutter · « **Reply #990 on:** April 13, 2015, 12:30:56 AM »

everything still works with DZ. I just have to weed through the PM's. not sure what the subject word is....I'll find though.

nmiwrecks · « **Reply #991 on:** April 13, 2015, 08:42:50 AM »

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I sent Farf a PM a couple weeks ago, but I haven't got any response

Backing up - competing theories are:

1. money arrived from close by ~ Cooper landed close by ~ requires amending flightpath ~ Robert99
2. money washed in from further away ~ FBI FP time of drop amended Cooper lands closer to Columbia ~ Georger ?
3. other wash-in theory ~ source construction Hayden or Govt Island ~ Farflung ~ Maj. Dawson ?
4. dredging theory ~ money deposited on Tena Bar in 1974 ~weathers out to be discovered in 1980 ~ Shutter ?
5. plant ~ Kaye ?

Minor theories:
1. Washougal washdown ~ not supported by flight path parameters (R99 etal) - Himmelsbach & Thomas
2. Weber wash in ~ Duane tossed bag of money into river at Red Lyon Inn washed up on Tena Bar.
3. Weber plant ~ Tina Mucklow planted money on Tena Bar because Tina = Tena. Tina was under Duane's spell!
4. Blevins plant ~ KC and/or Geestman planted "3 bundolas" (money offered Tina) on Tena Bar. Proof by Motives!
5. Ice theory - proposed by an FBI agent - money arrived encased in ice from somewhere. An elegant theory but Temp records don't seem to support an 'ice' theory ? Amazon says not likely.

I have to say that I'm a number 4. guy. Obviously, Blevins...wait, I mean the other number 4! I just haven't seen any "silver bullet" evidence that would leave me to believe otherwise. The ice theory is intriguing because I have experience with ice moving objects, but I just don't see that happening in this case.

Shutter · « **Reply #992 on:** April 13, 2015, 09:15:37 AM »

Quote

I have to say that I'm a number 4. guy.

I think I asked this already, but what's your theory on how the money got into the river, or at what point....

nmiwrecks · « **Reply #993 on:** April 13, 2015, 09:49:23 AM »

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Quote
I have to say that I'm a number 4. guy.

I think I asked this already, but what's your theory on how the money got into the river, or at what point....

I tend to look for the simplest solution or the path of least resistance. Since the flight path crossed the Columbia somewhere between Tina Bar and 10 miles upstream, I'll go with the money falling from the plane directly into the Columbia. I lean towards the money bag being attached to the Cooper suspect's body when it hit the water.

Shutter · « **Reply #994 on:** April 13, 2015, 10:04:13 AM »

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Quote
I have to say that I'm a number 4. guy.

I think I asked this already, but what's your theory on how the money got into the river, or at what point....
I tend to look for the simplest solution or the path of least resistance. Since the flight path crossed the Columbia somewhere between Tina Bar and 10 miles upstream, I'll go with the money falling from the plane directly into the Columbia. I lean towards the money bag being attached to the Cooper suspect's body when it hit the water.

I agree it's the simplest solution on getting the money in the river, but we still have that aggravating problem of where the plane was while crossing the Columbia.

Major Dawson seems to believe about the same theory as Robert99 has. why would Dawson say this? some say it was a political move. this was not just some ordinary enlistment type a guy. he was a major in the Air Force who had first hand knowledge of what was going on. I like the theory, but it's so far off from the FBI flight path leaving me a lot of questions, and little answers...

nmiwrecks · « **Reply #995 on:** April 13, 2015, 10:34:15 AM »

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Quote
I have to say that I'm a number 4. guy.

I think I asked this already, but what's your theory on how the money got into the river, or at what point....
I tend to look for the simplest solution or the path of least resistance. Since the flight path crossed the Columbia somewhere between Tina Bar and 10 miles upstream, I'll go with the money falling from the plane directly into the Columbia. I lean towards the money bag being attached to the Cooper suspect's body when it hit the water.

I agree it's the simplest solution on getting the money in the river, but we still have that aggravating problem of where the plane was while crossing the Columbia.

Major Dawson seems to believe about the same theory as Robert99 has. why would Dawson say this? some say it was a political move. this was not just some ordinary enlistment type a guy. he was a major in the Air Force who had first hand knowledge of what was going on. I like the theory, but it's so far off from the FBI flight path leaving me a lot of questions, and little answers...

The movement of a body or object in a large river like the Columbia eliminates the need for Flight 305 to cross at any fixed point upstream. It could have crossed anywhere upstream and yielded the same results. Whether the money bag hit the water a half mile upstream from where it was found, or 7 miles upstream from that location, the river's currents carried it to a point where it either snagged on an obstruction or a fell into a depression with low water-flow and was covered in sediment. It turns the question from "where?", to "when?" Could the Cooper suspect have jumped further south than the FBI originally thought?

Shutter · « **Reply #996 on:** April 13, 2015, 12:21:53 PM »

I contacted another dredge company. DCS dredges....I spoke with a salesman. he said the money could get through the pump since rocks, and other debris passes through. he wasn't positive of this, but did refer me to a company named "Metso" who manufactures dredge pumps. I'll see what I can find through this avenue.

I also told him the amount of material, and how it was spread. he laughed

Shutter · « **Reply #997 on:** April 13, 2015, 12:48:53 PM »

The pump works by suction. the blades are going counter clockwise vs clockwise where it would cut into objects....it's in reverse so to speak....

Shutter · « **Reply #998 on:** April 13, 2015, 12:56:55 PM »

Shutter · « **Reply #999 on:** April 13, 2015, 01:01:21 PM »

Robert99 · « **Reply #1000 on:** April 13, 2015, 01:17:36 PM »

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Quote
I have to say that I'm a number 4. guy.

I think I asked this already, but what's your theory on how the money got into the river, or at what point....
I tend to look for the simplest solution or the path of least resistance. Since the flight path crossed the Columbia somewhere between Tina Bar and 10 miles upstream, I'll go with the money falling from the plane directly into the Columbia. I lean towards the money bag being attached to the Cooper suspect's body when it hit the water.

I agree it's the simplest solution on getting the money in the river, but we still have that aggravating problem of where the plane was while crossing the Columbia.

Major Dawson seems to believe about the same theory as Robert99 has. why would Dawson say this? some say it was a political move. this was not just some ordinary enlistment type a guy. he was a major in the Air Force who had first hand knowledge of what was going on. I like the theory, but it's so far off from the FBI flight path leaving me a lot of questions, and little answers...
The movement of a body or object in a large river like the Columbia eliminates the need for Flight 305 to cross at any fixed point upstream. It could have crossed anywhere upstream and yielded the same results. Whether the money bag hit the water a half mile upstream from where it was found, or 7 miles upstream from that location, the river's currents carried it to a point where it either snagged on an obstruction or a fell into a depression with low water-flow and was covered in sediment. It turns the question from "where?", to "when?" Could the Cooper suspect have jumped further south than the FBI originally thought?

Keep in mind that the money was found at an elevation above sea level that was several (5-10?) feet higher than the surface of the Columbia River on the evening of the jump. That money had to "park" somewhere until it was moved to that elevation and Tina Bar either by dredging or flood waters.

In the case of flood waters, the money, and Cooper if he was still attached to it, probably had to be high enough above the money find elevation to break free from the land/brush and probably moved downhill to the find elevation. Also keep in mind that the highest elevation of land in the immediate Tina Bar area is only about 25 feet above sea level. So that greatly narrows down the area where Cooper and the money could have landed as a no-pull.

georger · « **Reply #1001 on:** April 13, 2015, 01:31:51 PM »

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Quote
I have to say that I'm a number 4. guy.

I think I asked this already, but what's your theory on how the money got into the river, or at what point....
I tend to look for the simplest solution or the path of least resistance. Since the flight path crossed the Columbia somewhere between Tina Bar and 10 miles upstream, I'll go with the money falling from the plane directly into the Columbia. I lean towards the money bag being attached to the Cooper suspect's body when it hit the water.

I agree it's the simplest solution on getting the money in the river, but we still have that aggravating problem of where the plane was while crossing the Columbia.

Major Dawson seems to believe about the same theory as Robert99 has. why would Dawson say this? some say it was a political move. this was not just some ordinary enlistment type a guy. he was a major in the Air Force who had first hand knowledge of what was going on. I like the theory, but it's so far off from the FBI flight path leaving me a lot of questions, and little answers...

We have Dawson's account almost by accident. He didn't give a press conference and wasn't seeking a platform. Dawson's account emerged in 1980 just after the Ingram find because of debate over a reclamation project proposed in the State Legislature.

Dawson was a member of the State Legislature in 1980 - retired from the USAF. A longtime political reporter for the Legislature was talking to Senator ______ _______ one day about the upcoming legislative agenda and a proposal for funding for a reclamation project on the Columbia River near Vancouver. The Ingram discovery of Cooper money on the Columbia was current news. The reporter quipped to the Senator that maybe a reclamation project at Vancouver would turn up D.B. Cooper! (The reporter made the comment as a joke). The Senator, a long time friend of Dawson, replied to the reporter: 'You ought to talk to Rep. Dawson about that. He was involved in the Cooper case at McChord AFB in 1971.' The reporter eventually followed the tip up and got an interview with Dawson, and that resulted in several articles being published and picked up by AP and UPI.

The problem with Dawson's account is lack of independent verification of elaboration.

georger · « **Reply #1002 on:** April 13, 2015, 01:42:03 PM »

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Quote
I have to say that I'm a number 4. guy.

I think I asked this already, but what's your theory on how the money got into the river, or at what point....
I tend to look for the simplest solution or the path of least resistance. Since the flight path crossed the Columbia somewhere between Tina Bar and 10 miles upstream, I'll go with the money falling from the plane directly into the Columbia. I lean towards the money bag being attached to the Cooper suspect's body when it hit the water.

I agree it's the simplest solution on getting the money in the river, but we still have that aggravating problem of where the plane was while crossing the Columbia.

Could the Cooper suspect have jumped further south than the FBI originally thought?

Months of work on the timeline in the Transcripts was done at DZ. A number of people believe Cooper jumped further south ... on the timeline ... than previously stated. If you believe FBI comments to reporters, the FBI revised its own estimate twice by 1980, of when and where Cooper jumped on the Transcripts timeline - each revision pushing the drop point further south.

Bruce A. Smith · « **Reply #1003 on:** April 13, 2015, 04:47:54 PM »

SO what is the full Dawson story?

I know that Adele Ferguson wrote that Dawson told her about instructing the F-106 pilots to back off from Cooper, and to not add chaff to the chutes.

Anything else?

Shutter · « **Reply #1004 on:** April 13, 2015, 05:00:30 PM »

I think it was Norad that basically over ruled his plans. he wanted to put chaff in the chutes.....that included the planes coming in close..

It sounds like the military decided it was a civilian matter, and helped out, but didn't want any part of what was to be done to stop Cooper, or be involved other than radar, and aircraft surveillance..

Poll

How did the money arrive on Tena Bar

Author Topic: Tena Bar Money Find (Read 1433595 times)

Shutter

Re: Tina Bar Money Find

nmiwrecks

Re: Tina Bar Money Find

Shutter

Re: Tina Bar Money Find

nmiwrecks

Re: Tina Bar Money Find

Shutter

Re: Tina Bar Money Find

nmiwrecks

Re: Tina Bar Money Find

Shutter

Re: Tina Bar Money Find

Shutter

Re: Tina Bar Money Find

Shutter

Re: Tina Bar Money Find

Shutter

Re: Tina Bar Money Find

Robert99

Re: Tina Bar Money Find

georger

Re: Tina Bar Money Find

georger

Re: Tina Bar Money Find

Bruce A. Smith

Re: Tina Bar Money Find

Shutter

Re: Tina Bar Money Find