Poll

How did the money arrive on Tena Bar

River Flooding
1 (5%)
Floated to it's resting spot via Columbia river
2 (10%)
Planted
6 (30%)
Dredge
11 (55%)
tossed in the river in a paper bag
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 17

Voting closed: August 16, 2016, 09:05:28 AM

Author Topic: Tena Bar Money Find  (Read 1433711 times)

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #930 on: April 07, 2015, 03:08:10 AM »
Dredge pump manufacture. looks like it's a larger version of the pump on the arm. the blades are in the center....



« Last Edit: April 07, 2015, 03:11:35 AM by shutter »
 

Offline nmiwrecks

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #931 on: April 07, 2015, 08:11:05 AM »
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Very interesting.  It's really helpful to be able to visualize the dredging process.  I'm still not seeing anything that leads me to believe the money arrived by any other means than dredging.

After seeing that I'm more skeptical. That cutter head is a serious meat grinder. Spacing, rpms, etc we need to know to estimate the chances ...
I would imagine there is quite a bit of suction pulling material through the cutter head.  Wet money bundles have some flexibility to them, and the bank bag would be pretty slippery after spending some time in the drink (slimy coating of algae).  Remember, this is a dredge with a high volume pump, not a food processer :)
"If you always do what you’ve always done, you’ll always get what you’ve always got." - Henry Ford
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #932 on: April 07, 2015, 09:51:57 AM »
Agreed, I'm just trying to go step by step on the dredge functions. watching the video above, and looking at drawings of the pumps used on dredges, it appears lots of things can get through. it comes down to the screening behind the head in my opinion so far. if they only had a wiper bar that was spaced out enough I don't think it would stop bundles from passing through, but might hang up the bag. I'm not sure of anything at the moment.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #933 on: April 07, 2015, 09:54:51 AM »
Name Zeeland II
Type Cutter suction dredger
Classification Bureau Veritas, I  Hull • Mach, dredger,
no propulsion, unrestricted navigation
Year of construction 1977
Dimensions Length overall 76.50 m
Breadth overall 15.06 m
Moulded depth 4.25 m
Draught 3.21 m
Tonnage 1,054 GT – 316 NT
Maximum dredging depth 28 m
Suction pipe ø 800 mm
Discharge pipe ø 750 mm
Total power installed 6,425 kW
Inboard dredge pumps 1 x 1,722 kW and 1 x 1,678 kW
Submerged dredge pump 736 kW
Cutter power 883 kW


WHICH CUTTER HEAD IS SUITABLE FOR WHICH TYPE
OF SOIL?

Different cutter heads are designed for different types of soil,
for instance, hard soil, non-cohesive or cohesive soils have
different requirements:
• For hard soil, a cutter head should be used that can
withstand impact forces on its teeth. It should be heavy but
have a small contour with replaceable teeth so that it can
withstand extreme wear on both the cutter head itself and on
the teeth. Often more teeth (or chisels) are used for hard soil
and good, accurate tooth positions are necessary.
• For non-cohesive soil it should be possible to achieve high
production rates. A good mixture formation with replaceable
chisels or cutting edges will be able to withstand wear. Here
as well, good, accurate tooth positions are needed.
• And, for cohesive soil, a primary concern is that the cutter
head does not become blocked. For this reason, the cutter
head should be round in contour and large enough. It may
require fewer blades with different types of edges (e.g., plain,
adapter, toothed or serrated) on multiple smaller teeth.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2015, 10:12:48 AM by shutter »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #934 on: April 07, 2015, 10:27:14 AM »
Now, based on what I just found on the pumps, it appears the money would in fact be "shredded" the inlet pipe to the dredge goes directly into the blades on the pump, not good! I'm guessing as other reports claim that full bundles could still get through if a lot of bundles went through at the same time. (speculation)

I was thinking the blades were in the center of a circular flow, but the sediments go directly into the blades similar to throwing something directly into a fan, it will shred it depending on it's density.

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« Last Edit: April 07, 2015, 10:35:16 AM by shutter »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #935 on: April 07, 2015, 10:50:23 AM »
It is usual to make the opening into the suction pipe to the pump slightly smaller than the passage through the pump. in this way any solid objects that once entered will go through without choking. the size and character of some of the solid objects that will go through a dredging pump are surprising. stones and boulders of great size and weight are frequently passed. and in one instance a 4 foot crowbar went through the pump. six inch cannonballs have passed through the pump.

I guess passing Kidney stones wouldn't be an issue either for the dredge  :P :


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« Last Edit: April 07, 2015, 02:46:27 PM by shutter »
 

georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #936 on: April 07, 2015, 04:04:25 PM »
Bands! ???

Dennis Long is no longer at Alliance Rubber. The current guy has no idea what info Long conveyed to Kaye or what bands were supplied to SeaFirst etc in 1971! Unless Kaye has that info, the info Long had is no longer available - of course.  :) 

We need the specs on the bands, from somebody. 

Is Tom using the SeaFirst type bands in his stretch photos?  All he says is: 'He Long further stated that the differences in chemical composition of their rubber bands produced 1971, to the bands they supplied for testing, would be minimal. Mr. Long provided a significant number of the proper rubber bands for use in testing for which we are grateful.'   Not one word from Kaye about specs on the bands he worked with in his tests? 

 :) :) :)



« Last Edit: April 07, 2015, 04:05:03 PM by georger »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #937 on: April 07, 2015, 04:11:25 PM »
Nice post Georger, but it appears you throw another wrench into our fun  ;D ;D

Hopefully we can get the right bands. is there nothing simple about this case?
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #938 on: April 07, 2015, 04:18:24 PM »
Here is what Kaye says on CS about the rubber bands:

Quote
Rubber bands were sourced from the original manufacturer that supplied the west coast banks in the 1970's [2]. The companies technical people provided rubber bands of similar type and composition to those used at that time [3]. The rubber bands were stretched to 150%, 180%, 216% and 250% beyond their zero tension lengths on a plastic fixture (Fig. 1). One fixture was chained in the San Pedro River in southern Arizona (Fig. 2). A second fixture was buried in a tray under one inch of sand in the back yard of a private residence within ten miles of Tena Bar (Fig. 4). The third fixture was a control and left in a drawer in the lab. Both test fixtures were removed at intervals to determine the decomposition rate.
 

georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #939 on: April 07, 2015, 04:19:27 PM »
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Nice post Georger, but it appears you throw another wrench into our fun  ;D ;D

Hopefully we can get the right bands. is there nothing simple about this case?

Well Kaye says his minimal stretch in his photos was 150%. So that would roughly make the bands 3mm x 38.3mm or  0.118" x 1.508" ?  That cant be right! Something is wrong.

Dimensions on a $20 dollar bill are:  2.61" x 6.14"  or   6.6cm  x  15.6cm.
 
Maybe just email Kaye and ask him what the dimensions on the bands were, and any other specs he has ?
« Last Edit: April 07, 2015, 04:20:42 PM by georger »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #940 on: April 07, 2015, 04:23:48 PM »
Are you including a bundle, and not one bill?
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #941 on: April 07, 2015, 09:15:15 PM »
Quote
Is Tom using the SeaFirst type bands in his stretch photos?  All he says is: 'He Long further stated that the differences in chemical composition of their rubber bands produced 1971, to the bands they supplied for testing, would be minimal. Mr. Long provided a significant number of the proper rubber bands for use in testing for which we are grateful.'   Not one word from Kaye about specs on the bands he worked with in his tests?


Tom emailed offering to send me some rubber bands! I sent him my address as soon as I seen his email.....
 

Offline EVickiW

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #942 on: April 07, 2015, 10:02:38 PM »
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Quote
Is Tom using the SeaFirst type bands in his stretch photos?  All he says is: 'He Long further stated that the differences in chemical composition of their rubber bands produced 1971, to the bands they supplied for testing, would be minimal. Mr. Long provided a significant number of the proper rubber bands for use in testing for which we are grateful.'   Not one word from Kaye about specs on the bands he worked with in his tests?


Tom emailed offering to send me some rubber bands! I sent him my address as soon as I seen his email.....

Yesterday, while working and filing in the back room of my office, I stumbled across a file box I packed in packed in 2005. I found rubber bands around some of the old files. Some were starting to deteriorate and others were still holding up like the day I put them there. The storage area is dimly lit and climate controlled at 70 degrees. The bands were in a cardboard bankers box with a cardboard top.
You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.
 

Offline EVickiW

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #943 on: April 07, 2015, 10:04:16 PM »
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Yesterday, while working and filing in the back room of my office, I stumbled across a file box I packed in packed in 2005. I found rubber bands around some of the old files. Some were starting to deteriorate and others were still holding up like the day I put them there. The storage area is dimly lit and climate controlled at 70 degrees. The bands were in a cardboard bankers box with a cardboard top.

Continued......
You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #944 on: April 07, 2015, 10:17:31 PM »
Were they at the sticky stage?
« Last Edit: April 07, 2015, 10:36:03 PM by shutter »