Poll

How did the money arrive on Tena Bar

River Flooding
1 (5%)
Floated to it's resting spot via Columbia river
2 (10%)
Planted
6 (30%)
Dredge
11 (55%)
tossed in the river in a paper bag
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 17

Voting closed: August 16, 2016, 09:05:28 AM

Author Topic: Tena Bar Money Find  (Read 1434070 times)

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #780 on: March 23, 2015, 09:10:23 PM »
Quote
Dorwin also insisted frags were easily visible right on the surface, in a line heading upstream.

Did anyone track the days leading up to the money find, why do we have visible parts on the beach? this would also be the next day when they started the search?

Added: looking at my notes it was two days later the search began.......
« Last Edit: March 23, 2015, 09:14:11 PM by shutter »
 

georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #781 on: March 24, 2015, 12:20:11 AM »
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I'll see you in the ethers, Georger, or at least at T-Bar.

BTW: How far away from the Maharishi are you?

Not as far as I would like! Used to be called Parson's College - old Iowa College finally went broke. Actually they have a pretty good small college level physics program there. Their sports program sucks. If you are ever in the area let me know ... 
 

georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #782 on: March 24, 2015, 12:23:01 AM »
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Quote
Dorwin also insisted frags were easily visible right on the surface, in a line heading upstream.

Did anyone track the days leading up to the money find, why do we have visible parts on the beach? this would also be the next day when they started the search?

Added: looking at my notes it was two days later the search began.......

track the days leading up to the money find?  Explain.

The Fazio said they were on their beachfront all the time and never saw anything ... and of course hundreds of people were there yearly.

 
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #783 on: March 24, 2015, 02:17:03 AM »
The Fazio story is a bit convoluted, and I never fully straightened it out with Richard and Al.  Here's what I got:

1. Al said that he was not at home when the feds showed up. Hence the FBI were at the beach long before he ever showed up.

Al said that he was at a cattle sale and was held on the road until he got cleared to enter his property. SO, the FBi was there in force, and seemingly had become well established if they had set up a roadblock and had enough agents to do so.

Yet, Al told me that there were shards on the tide line and no where else. How he would know as he was late to the party? He never explained and I never asked because I wanted to keep everybody in a happy place.

2. In terms of the money find, Al was the big talker and Richard didn't have much to say. The only thing that R was enthused to talk about was his service in the AF in Thailand during the Vietnam war. He also did a lot of talking about the mutilated cattle, a subject that really made Al anxious, who sweated profusely when I asked about the incident. Richard very proudly grabbed his "X-File" folder and posed with Al when I asked for a pix. Richard smiled, too!

There is a Mutt and Jeff quality to Richard and Al. Richard is younger, skinnier, more shy and a lot taller. Al is older, shorter, and acts as the boss, which I believe he is. Al is the guy who walked out his air-conditioned office when I showed up in 105 degree weather and asked me who I was, but he knew right away that I was a Cooper guy. He can smell a reporter from 50 paces! He was very gracious, actually, and drove me down to the beach and left me alone to roam about. I even went swimming! The current is strong!!!
« Last Edit: March 24, 2015, 02:19:17 AM by Bruce A. Smith »
 

georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #784 on: March 24, 2015, 01:19:44 PM »
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Yet, Al told me that there were shards on the tide line and no where else. How he would know as he was late to the party? He never explained and I never asked because I wanted to keep everybody in a happy place.


That is what Al told Dr. B.T. (not jerry thomas)
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #785 on: March 24, 2015, 05:32:35 PM »
Quote
track the days leading up to the money find?  Explain.

Just wondering if anything out of the ordinary happened on the river days before the find. ship wreck, or something that could of stirred the river up? if pieces were visible on the surface, you would think it probably wasn't there very long prior to the find. (pieces)

Anchors could disrupt?
 

georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #786 on: March 25, 2015, 12:24:26 AM »
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track the days leading up to the money find?  Explain.

Just wondering if anything out of the ordinary happened on the river days before the find. ship wreck, or something that could of stirred the river up? if pieces were visible on the surface, you would think it probably wasn't there very long prior to the find. (pieces)

Anchors could disrupt?

Say it is stirred up off the bottom somewhere. The Columbia is a very wide strong river. Now it has to arc across the Columbia to come up on to Tina Bar vs. passing on down river, in just the right zone at some date uncertain. Then must be covered over.

Point is, multiple independent events are not as likely as a single event process that delivers the money and also covers the money.  Two things qualify: flood or high water scenario or dredging.

There were a couple of high water periods that could have delivered the money, particularly before and then after the dredging in August of 1974 - see attached.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2015, 12:58:09 AM by georger »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #787 on: March 25, 2015, 06:40:12 AM »
I can see high levels bringing the money to the shore, but I can't see it dropping off "shards"

Are we to assume the high water level brought the money, and then as it slowly deteriorated the money it dispersed the "shards" to different locations?

What was the FBI's conclusion about the dredge? that it would of destroyed the money, or rip it to "shards"

Could small pieces survive that long on the beach? why did the bundles get attacked by insects, but not the small pieces over time when they should have vanished? if you put a whole cracker on the ground, and then a few crumbs will the insects only attack the cracker, and not the crumbs? I don't think so. the crumbs will disappear before the whole cracker does. 
« Last Edit: March 25, 2015, 06:48:15 AM by shutter »
 

Offline nmiwrecks

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #788 on: March 25, 2015, 09:16:06 AM »
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I can see high levels bringing the money to the shore, but I can't see it dropping off "shards"

Are we to assume the high water level brought the money, and then as it slowly deteriorated the money it dispersed the "shards" to different locations?

What was the FBI's conclusion about the dredge? that it would of destroyed the money, or rip it to "shards"

Could small pieces survive that long on the beach? why did the bundles get attacked by insects, but not the small pieces over time when they should have vanished? if you put a whole cracker on the ground, and then a few crumbs will the insects only attack the cracker, and not the crumbs? I don't think so. the crumbs will disappear before the whole cracker does.

I think we are back to possibility and probability.  Is it possible for high water and current to deposit the money?  Yes.  Is it probable that this happened and the three bundles remained together?  That's a tougher question to answer.  I would say no.  I think the shards could be pieces of the outer layer of the money that deteriorated or another money stack(s) that was in a more advanced stage of decomposition.  The money bundles are negatively buoyant, so it would take quite a bit of current to push them to where they were found, which would make it tough for the bundles to remain together.

Another possibility is the money fell and landed at or near where it was found.  The question there is the probability of it not being discovered by someone sooner.  The impact could have buried it, though.

Did the Fazio's ever give their opinion as to if the money bundles could have come from the dredge piles? 
"If you always do what you’ve always done, you’ll always get what you’ve always got." - Henry Ford
 

georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #789 on: March 25, 2015, 02:39:14 PM »
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I can see high levels bringing the money to the shore, but I can't see it dropping off "shards"

Are we to assume the high water level brought the money, and then as it slowly deteriorated the money it dispersed the "shards" to different locations?

What was the FBI's conclusion about the dredge? that it would of destroyed the money, or rip it to "shards"

Could small pieces survive that long on the beach? why did the bundles get attacked by insects, but not the small pieces over time when they should have vanished? if you put a whole cracker on the ground, and then a few crumbs will the insects only attack the cracker, and not the crumbs? I don't think so. the crumbs will disappear before the whole cracker does.

I think we are back to possibility and probability.  Is it possible for high water and current to deposit the money?  Yes.  Is it probable that this happened and the three bundles remained together?  That's a tougher question to answer.  I would say no.  I think the shards could be pieces of the outer layer of the money that deteriorated or another money stack(s) that was in a more advanced stage of decomposition.  The money bundles are negatively buoyant, so it would take quite a bit of current to push them to where they were found, which would make it tough for the bundles to remain together.

Another possibility is the money fell and landed at or near where it was found.  The question there is the probability of it not being discovered by someone sooner.  The impact could have buried it, though.

Did the Fazio's ever give their opinion as to if the money bundles could have come from the dredge piles?

So you dont believe news reports that fragments of money were found at 3 feet etc?

The rest of your questions have already been addressed in prior posts here and at DZ.

 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #790 on: March 25, 2015, 06:46:25 PM »
Did the FBI ever try and determine if any of the "shards" were from the Ingrams find?

I watched the video again that shows them digging on the beach, then an agent holds up a couple pieces in a plastic cover. I noticed it was the Federal reserve seal. the letter "G".. now, when you look at the piles of money, it appears that the seals are visible on the money the Ingrams found? at least each separate pile, except for one stack that is upside down.
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #791 on: March 25, 2015, 08:14:17 PM »
The source of the shards is unclear.

Dowin told me that the FBi found "thousands" of pieces, and many of them were 2-3 inches in size. Many were also the size of dimes and nickels. How many Himms says they found is unknown, but it seems much less than "thousands."

So, how many bills would it take to make thousands of shards, half or so about 2-3 inches in size - big enough to read serial numbers and confirm it was Cooper's?

Most people feel the shards came off a few of the top bills of the "three bundles," or "tres bundolares" as Georger so famously puts it. However, a few loose bills, as Al Fazio and others claim, ain't gonna give you "thousands" of pieces.

Hence, the mystery continues.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #792 on: March 25, 2015, 08:57:23 PM »
In this document they say Coopers body would of clogged the dredge, but the bag could get through. Cooper's body would of been in pieces. it wouldn't of "clogged" the dredge. chains, and cannonballs go through with no hitch?

How could the money found it's way to Tina Bar via La Center as stated in the document?
 

georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #793 on: March 26, 2015, 12:08:05 AM »
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The source of the shards is unclear.

Dowin told me that the FBi found "thousands" of pieces, and many of them were 2-3 inches in size. Many were also the size of dimes and nickels. How many Himms says they found is unknown, but it seems much less than "thousands."

So, how many bills would it take to make thousands of shards, half or so about 2-3 inches in size - big enough to read serial numbers and confirm it was Cooper's?

Most people feel the shards came off a few of the top bills of the "three bundles," or "tres bundolares" as Georger so famously puts it. However, a few loose bills, as Al Fazio and others claim, ain't gonna give you "thousands" of pieces.

Hence, the mystery continues.

Neither are a few bills "on the surface" going to give you 'fragments at three feet' or 'a fist sized wad of what looked like decayed money at one to two feet down' ...

And again, the digging photos show them digging in a number of places. Time was a major factor - each one of those digs took time which they had little of so one has to think there was some reason for them digging at these disparate sites ...  :)
« Last Edit: March 26, 2015, 12:31:50 AM by georger »
 

georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #794 on: March 26, 2015, 12:12:18 AM »
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In this document they say Coopers body would of clogged the dredge, but the bag could get through. Cooper's body would of been in pieces. it wouldn't of "clogged" the dredge. chains, and cannonballs go through with no hitch?

How could the money found it's way to Tina Bar via La Center as stated in the document?

what is this clipping from?
« Last Edit: March 26, 2015, 12:12:43 AM by georger »