Author Topic: Tena Bar Money Find (Read 1434398 times)

Shutter · « **Reply #735 on:** March 14, 2015, 12:23:53 AM »

This seems to be just as hard as proving who Cooper was.

The dredge places the sand directly on the beach, they do have different options, one having the material going through a filter type system right on the beach, but no claims of that occurred.

georger · « **Reply #736 on:** March 14, 2015, 12:28:47 AM »

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Is there anyone here than believes the money found on Tina Bar was a plant, and why, or how would you come to this conclusion.

I tend more towards dredging - because I think that is one method that explains a lot -- and, even with all the ifs, ands, and buts, no one that I know of has been able to successfully and definitively counter the dredging argument.

No one yet has been able to explain planting in any way that makes sense. To me, Duane throwing it off the bridge makes more sense than a purposeful plant.

Plus the dredge theory is not dependent on Cooper not making it or not making it - if he didn't die, he just didn't get to keep all of the money.

that's a very good point.

I dont think the dredging theory is going away easily!

The timing is right, the dredging-spreading scenario fits the morphology of the find site, and lab tests could very easily link the money with bottom sediment - if the right tests are run!

But, doesnt the dredging scenario almost require that the whole bag of money was sucked up vs. just a few bundles? I agree with the FBI/Dredging Co: a good fraction of the money is going to be destroyed by the auger and the forces in the dredging process. It's paper!

Shutter · « **Reply #737 on:** March 14, 2015, 12:54:32 AM »

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Is there anyone here than believes the money found on Tina Bar was a plant, and why, or how would you come to this conclusion.

I tend more towards dredging - because I think that is one method that explains a lot -- and, even with all the ifs, ands, and buts, no one that I know of has been able to successfully and definitively counter the dredging argument.

No one yet has been able to explain planting in any way that makes sense. To me, Duane throwing it off the bridge makes more sense than a purposeful plant.

Plus the dredge theory is not dependent on Cooper not making it or not making it - if he didn't die, he just didn't get to keep all of the money.

that's a very good point.

I dont think the dredging theory is going away easily!

The timing is right, the dredging-spreading scenario fits the morphology of the find site, and lab tests could very easily link the money with bottom sediment - if the right tests are run!

But, doesnt the dredging scenario almost require that the whole bag of money was sucked up vs. just a few bundles? I agree with the FBI/Dredging Co: a good fraction of the money is going to be destroyed by the auger and the forces in the dredging process. It's paper!

It's hard to say. I'm not an expert on this, but I could imagine the bag being torn apart by the bit possibly causing the money to be tossed about, and sucked up into the dredge leaving some on the bottom. the dredge will not come back to the same spot, but close to it. it basically mows the river floor, or sweeps it never going back to the same location like you would do with a lawn mower.

I think today they would have checked the entire beachfront, and not a selective area around the find.

I just can't say anything for sure, nor can anyone else with other theories.....

georger · « **Reply #738 on:** March 14, 2015, 01:14:59 AM »

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Is there anyone here than believes the money found on Tina Bar was a plant, and why, or how would you come to this conclusion.

I tend more towards dredging - because I think that is one method that explains a lot -- and, even with all the ifs, ands, and buts, no one that I know of has been able to successfully and definitively counter the dredging argument.

No one yet has been able to explain planting in any way that makes sense. To me, Duane throwing it off the bridge makes more sense than a purposeful plant.

Plus the dredge theory is not dependent on Cooper not making it or not making it - if he didn't die, he just didn't get to keep all of the money.

that's a very good point.

I dont think the dredging theory is going away easily!

The timing is right, the dredging-spreading scenario fits the morphology of the find site, and lab tests could very easily link the money with bottom sediment - if the right tests are run!

But, doesnt the dredging scenario almost require that the whole bag of money was sucked up vs. just a few bundles? I agree with the FBI/Dredging Co: a good fraction of the money is going to be destroyed by the auger and the forces in the dredging process. It's paper!

It's hard to say. I'm not an expert on this, but I could imagine the bag being torn apart by the bit possibly causing the money to be tossed about, and sucked up into the dredge leaving some on the bottom. the dredge will not come back to the same spot, but close to it. it basically mows the river floor, or sweeps it never going back to the same location like you would do with a lawn mower.

I think today they would have checked the entire beachfront, and not a selective area around the find.

I just can't say anything for sure, nor can anyone else with other theories.....

I think anything disturbed or broken open on the bottom would have moved on with the current if not sucked up - just a guess.

The Fazio's claim nothing had ever been seen or found on their beachfront until the Ingram find, but would they know daily? They said they saw nothing suspicious when they spread the dredging spoils.

georger · « **Reply #739 on:** March 14, 2015, 01:31:53 AM »

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Is there anyone here than believes the money found on Tina Bar was a plant, and why, or how would you come to this conclusion.

I tend more towards dredging - because I think that is one method that explains a lot -- and, even with all the ifs, ands, and buts, no one that I know of has been able to successfully and definitively counter the dredging argument.

No one yet has been able to explain planting in any way that makes sense. To me, Duane throwing it off the bridge makes more sense than a purposeful plant.

Plus the dredge theory is not dependent on Cooper not making it or not making it - if he didn't die, he just didn't get to keep all of the money.

that's a very good point.

I dont think the dredging theory is going away easily!

The timing is right, the dredging-spreading scenario fits the morphology of the find site, and lab tests could very easily link the money with bottom sediment - if the right tests are run!

But, doesnt the dredging scenario almost require that the whole bag of money was sucked up vs. just a few bundles? I agree with the FBI/Dredging Co: a good fraction of the money is going to be destroyed by the auger and the forces in the dredging process. It's paper!

It's hard to say. I'm not an expert on this, but I could imagine the bag being torn apart by the bit possibly causing the money to be tossed about, and sucked up into the dredge leaving some on the bottom. the dredge will not come back to the same spot, but close to it. it basically mows the river floor, or sweeps it never going back to the same location like you would do with a lawn mower.

I think today they would have checked the entire beachfront, and not a selective area around the find.

I just can't say anything for sure, nor can anyone else with other theories.....

Let me add one more thing because it's important: Tom locates the Ingram find as being 100-200 yards downstream of the northmost 74 dredging pile. He says that makes the money site and the dredging piles physically unconnected even after the Fazio spreading work.

Shutter · « **Reply #740 on:** March 14, 2015, 03:00:00 PM »

Quote

The Fazio's claim nothing had ever been seen or found on their beachfront until the Ingram find, but would they know daily? They said they saw nothing suspicious when they spread the dredging spoils.

My guess would be that soggy wet money wouldn't really look like money. it would possibly look like a rock in the sand. did they use a plow blade on the front, or underneath the tractor? the pile will steadily rotate as it's being pushed, but I don't think they would see every square yard of material as it's being spread out.

Did they ever mention how thick the sand was they spread over the beach?

Why would the FBI make a claim of a clump of money? that's consistent with being pushed through sand while it was wet. it would bunch up IMO.

Bruce A. Smith · « **Reply #741 on:** March 14, 2015, 04:41:02 PM »

Plant Theory 101

To consider a plant of money at Tina Bar, it is helpful to take an alternative look at possible motivations for the skyjacking. If the hijacking was done for other reasons than making a quick $200K, then the plant theory has some wiggle room of possibility.

Consider:

1. The money could have been planted as part of some kind of ritual, if Norjak was some kind of group operation. Suppose McCoy was actually part of Norjak, but was NOT DB Cooper. What then did McCoy do? Why? Maybe McCoy, "Jake" and the other ground guys had a celebratory bonfire and weenie roast after the job and planted the money for fun?

2. Are any of the 922 confessees legit, or are all of them 100% whacko? Could a money plant be part of an MKULTRA process to condition people into believing they are DB Cooper? Could the money find/plant be part of a training mission? Is the money find/plant the Norjak equivalent of a Manchurian Candidate process?

3. Did DB Cooper bury the money because he wanted to get rid of it and didn't want to mail it back to the FBI?

4. Maybe DB Cooper lived at home with his mother and she found the cash under Sonny-Boy's bed, and momma buried it to teach DB a lesson and remove incriminating evidence from her home?

Remember, in the Cossey murder somebody mailed Coss' credit cards and DL back to the family. Wassup with dat?

Strange things happen in life and crime...

I think it's important to consider that DB Cooper may not be a guy like us, and he may not have committed the crime for the reasons we would.

Shutter · « **Reply #742 on:** March 14, 2015, 06:20:13 PM »

Well, one would think if the Government had anything to do with the hijacking it would be a lot simpler to have the guy caught, and not allow the cover-up to possibly be exposed. the crime, or cover-up would of been forgotten decades ago?

Bruce A. Smith · « **Reply #743 on:** March 14, 2015, 11:41:07 PM »

The genesis of conspiracies is a HUGE topic, and I can only begin to speculate and ponder.

As for cover-ups, the gov't seems to be very skilled at it. Building stealth fighter jets in downtown Burbank and no one knew! Not even the Russkies. Now, that's some fancy dancin'.

Shutter · « **Reply #744 on:** March 15, 2015, 09:57:03 AM »

Quote

Let me add one more thing because it's important: Tom locates the Ingram find as being 100-200 yards downstream of the northmost 74 dredging pile

If I'm calculating right, the find is only about 75-80 yards away from the northern tip of the spoil. that's generous because it appears water is already coming in on the north side of the spoil.

The photo shows I've taken two of the 50 yard scales, and stacked them. the photo in the corner was taken several months before the dredging.

Shutter · « **Reply #745 on:** March 15, 2015, 10:21:15 AM »

Quote

As for cover-ups, the gov't seems to be very skilled at it

Correct, so why lock the door with all the windows open?

MarkBennett · « **Reply #746 on:** March 15, 2015, 12:01:30 PM »

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Quote
Let me add one more thing because it's important: Tom locates the Ingram find as being 100-200 yards downstream of the northmost 74 dredging pile

If I'm calculating right, the find is only about 75-80 yards away from the northern tip of the spoil. that's generous because it appears water is already coming in on the north side of the spoil.

The photo shows I've taken two of the 50 yard scales, and stacked them. the photo in the corner was taken several months before the dredging.

Shutter,
Good picture...that appears to be right. If the money was found 70 - 100 yards north of the dredge spot, is the implication that the money could have been deposited by dredging -- or by the spreading of the dirt done by the Fosses?

Shutter · « **Reply #747 on:** March 15, 2015, 01:03:54 PM »

It's hard to understand some times. they seem to implicate that the dredged material was gone when the money was found, but what difference would that make if the area didn't have dredge sand over it? if there was in fact dredge sand in that area, it makes more sense that the erosion finally brought the money to the surface. the erosion created a new lower surface further exposing the money.

200 yard mark wouldn't work with this photo, it would go off the edge of the photo. I'll have to make another version for 200 yards.

Robert99 · « **Reply #748 on:** March 15, 2015, 02:19:09 PM »

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It's hard to understand some times. they seem to implicate that the dredged material was gone when the money was found, but what difference would that make if the area didn't have dredge sand over it? if there was in fact dredge sand in that area, it makes more sense that the erosion finally brought the money to the surface. the erosion created a new lower surface further exposing the money.

200 yard mark wouldn't work with this photo, it would go off the edge of the photo. I'll have to make another version for 200 yards.

An additional point is that no evidence of Columbia River water contamination was found on the bills. If this survives additional testing, then the money was not exposed to the Columbia water itself until the bills were so compacted that the contamination could not reach the bills themselves.

Shutter · « **Reply #749 on:** March 15, 2015, 02:43:04 PM »

Carr states this from the lab test...

The only thing in the lab report was that the money was consistent with being submerged in water and that sand recovered off the money was consistent with silt from the Columbia.

Shutter adds:
Is silt only found at the bottom of the river?

Poll

How did the money arrive on Tena Bar

Author Topic: Tena Bar Money Find (Read 1434398 times)

Shutter

Re: Tina Bar Money Find

georger

Re: Tina Bar Money Find

Shutter

Re: Tina Bar Money Find

georger

Re: Tina Bar Money Find

georger

Re: Tina Bar Money Find

Shutter

Re: Tina Bar Money Find

Bruce A. Smith

Re: Tina Bar Money Find

Shutter

Re: Tina Bar Money Find

Bruce A. Smith

Re: Tina Bar Money Find

Shutter

Re: Tina Bar Money Find

Shutter

Re: Tina Bar Money Find

MarkBennett

Re: Tina Bar Money Find

Shutter

Re: Tina Bar Money Find

Robert99

Re: Tina Bar Money Find

Shutter

Re: Tina Bar Money Find