You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

  I'm merely asking how a money bag could rest on the bottom of Columbia for years, but only have spring diatoms on them? Also, the bills had to have fanned out for a period of time for exposure to occur. How could that happen in the rather rapid process of dredging?

If a money bag went to the bottom of the Columbia and was buried, why would any bills have diatoms on them? (from Nov 1971?)

Yes, this is my question too.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

From TK's Nature paper:

"If the previous experiments and investigations rule out diatom infiltration while buried, then the findings suggest that diatoms found their way onto the bills during water immersion. As shown in Fig. 4, a stack of bills once saturated, will fan out in water exposing all surfaces to micro-particles in the water environment. The exposure of the fanned out stack to the river, suggests the simplest way for large, intact but fragile diatoms to be found alone interior to the bill stack. This would have occurred prior to burial and be in the water long enough for fan out to occur."

Second, to be clear, I'm not dismissing dredging. I'm merely asking how a money bag could rest on the bottom of Columbia for years, but only have spring diatoms on them? Also, the bills had to have fanned out for a period of time for exposure to occur. How could that happen in the rather rapid process of dredging?

I thought Tom K's experiments with flushing water thru stuff were relatively short duration?
I'm not sure why you think "rapid" means no accumulation?

His paper indicates that it was done on money packets that were immersed in water for “several minutes”. I don’t think dredging would allow fanning for that long, but perhaps it could?

Honestly I don’t know enough about the dredging process to comment on time. My only question would be:  how much of the time during and after dredging would the packets be fanned out?

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Honestly I don’t know enough about the dredging process to comment on time. My only question would be:  how much of the time during and after dredging would the packets be fanned out?

As an example of real science around that, you'd ask:
"What is the minimum distance between two bills, that's required, for diatom migration to occur?"

and design experiments around that.

diatoms are small, so the distance required is conceivably small. Unclear.
I think any stuff about bill fanout and diatom attachment is speculative. Not enough experimental evidence, regardless of what Tom K says.

In reading some of Tom’s old posts, he suggests that his findings “bring the dredge theory back into play”, but that he doesn’t think the money would survive the dredge machine. I don’t know if his opinion has changed.

tom has no first or secondhand knowlege about dredging that anyone else doesn't already have.
anything he says about dredge survival should be dismissed as hearsay.

If cans and nails go thru a dredge, it tells me you can't tell what bills would do, without an experiment.

Here is another old post from Tom Kaye. Here is the relevant portion:

"This finding shows that the formosa had to float into that position while the bills were fanned out in the water.  It would be impossible for a diatom to work its way in between the bills while they were buried and under compression."

Dunno why he uses the word compression? compression seems to be an analysis while buried?
we're not talking about during burial
where is the compression coming from?

Oh I see, he does say during burial.
But we all agree on that. Plus they're covered by sand?

how does that post apply to "during dredging" ??

I think we can all agree there would be no bag compression after a auger dredgehead hits a canvas bag at the bottom of the columbia.

he's making up a story to fit the answer he wants.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Here is another old post from Tom Kaye. Here is the relevant portion:

"This finding shows that the formosa had to float into that position while the bills were fanned out in the water.  It would be impossible for a diatom to work its way in between the bills while they were buried and under compression."

Dunno why he uses the word compression? compression seems to be an analysis while buried?
we're not talking about during burial
where is the compression coming from?

Oh I see, he does say during burial.
But we all agree on that. Plus they're covered by sand?

how does that post apply to "during dredging" ??

By compression, I assume he means such as inside of a bag or buried under sand. The money has to be fanned out to accumulate diatoms.

I only point this out to add to the discussion about the possibility of fanning out during the dredging process.

We may never get any discussion or clarification from Tom.