Poll

How did the money arrive on Tena Bar

River Flooding
1 (5%)
Floated to it's resting spot via Columbia river
2 (10%)
Planted
6 (30%)
Dredge
11 (55%)
tossed in the river in a paper bag
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 17

Voting closed: August 16, 2016, 09:05:28 AM

Author Topic: Tena Bar Money Find  (Read 1514124 times)

Offline Robert99

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Re: Tena Bar Money Find
« Reply #6450 on: September 09, 2021, 07:28:02 PM »
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If Cooper no-pulls and goes in in the river, both the parachute and the money bag would at first be flotation, but would fairly quickly soak up and pull him under. If he pulls and lands with open canopy in the water he's in trouble. How strong is the current? What's downstream (populated vs. wilderness)? That canopy does not detach, so he's struggling to get out of the harness. He probably tries to ditch the money bag first, since it's in the way, but how securely is it tied? ...

For the record, I am not aware of anyone actually claiming that Cooper landed in the Columbia River or any water anywhere.  But if he did land in the Columbia River at about 8:11 PM PST, then he was probably well downstream of Tena Bar by daybreak regardless of where he entered the river.
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Tena Bar Money Find
« Reply #6451 on: September 09, 2021, 07:33:36 PM »
Strong swimmer with skydiving training could have escaped the harness. Isn't unintentional water landing talked about for A license nowadays? Water landing doesn't guarantee death. Sure no capewells, but still possible.

McCain situation different but he survived.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2021, 07:37:09 PM by snowmman »
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Tena Bar Money Find
« Reply #6452 on: September 09, 2021, 07:56:05 PM »
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Strong swimmer with skydiving training could have escaped the harness. Isn't unintentional water landing talked about for A license nowadays? Water landing doesn't guarantee death. Sure no capewells, but still possible.

McCain situation different but he survived.

McCain was deliberately stabbed by his "rescuers".  Only the timely arrival of the North Vietnam military prevented him from being killed.  There are pictures of American pilots being captured by the "locals" but never making it into the hands of the North Vietnam military and never being heard from again.
 

Offline georger

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Re: Tena Bar Money Find
« Reply #6453 on: September 09, 2021, 11:52:50 PM »
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If Cooper no-pulls and goes in in the river, both the parachute and the money bag would at first be flotation, but would fairly quickly soak up and pull him under. If he pulls and lands with open canopy in the water he's in trouble. How strong is the current? What's downstream (populated vs. wilderness)? That canopy does not detach, so he's struggling to get out of the harness. He probably tries to ditch the money bag first, since it's in the way, but how securely is it tied? ...

For the record, I am not aware of anyone actually claiming that Cooper landed in the Columbia River or any water anywhere.  But if he did land in the Columbia River at about 8:11 PM PST, then he was probably well downstream of Tena Bar by daybreak regardless of where he entered the river.

What about Tosaw and Globe Indemnity who financed a submarine search of Lake Merwin ?  So much for "the record"! 
« Last Edit: September 09, 2021, 11:54:04 PM by georger »
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Tena Bar Money Find
« Reply #6454 on: September 10, 2021, 12:32:55 AM »
first thing you do, when you find $200k194k attached to a dead body, is see if there's a black book of phone numbers on the body.
second thing you do, is check whether there's any blood on the money.
third thing you do, is bury the body.
fourth thing, bury the canopy
fifth thing, don't talk about it for 50 years.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2021, 12:39:58 AM by snowmman »
 

Offline dudeman17

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Re: Tena Bar Money Find
« Reply #6455 on: September 10, 2021, 01:05:45 AM »
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For the record, I am not aware of anyone actually claiming that Cooper landed in the Columbia River or any water anywhere.

I was just spitballing. It was being considered what if the whole money bag was under water, so I was just speculating what if everything was there.

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first thing you do, when you find $200k194k attached to a dead body, is see if there's a black book of phone numbers on the body.
second thing you do, is check whether there's any blood on the money.
third thing you do, is bury the body.
fourth thing, bury the canopy
fifth thing, don't talk about it for 50 years.

If Cooper died in the jump, I think that's a fair possibility.

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Strong swimmer with skydiving training could have escaped the harness. Isn't unintentional water landing talked about for A license nowadays? Water landing doesn't guarantee death. Sure no capewells, but still possible.

Water landings are discussed in the first jump course. For a B license we actually throw them in a pool and throw a canopy over them.
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Tena Bar Money Find
« Reply #6456 on: September 10, 2021, 01:22:15 AM »
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If Cooper no-pulls and goes in in the river, both the parachute and the money bag would at first be flotation, but would fairly quickly soak up and pull him under. If he pulls and lands with open canopy in the water he's in trouble. How strong is the current? What's downstream (populated vs. wilderness)? That canopy does not detach, so he's struggling to get out of the harness. He probably tries to ditch the money bag first, since it's in the way, but how securely is it tied? ...

For the record, I am not aware of anyone actually claiming that Cooper landed in the Columbia River or any water anywhere.  But if he did land in the Columbia River at about 8:11 PM PST, then he was probably well downstream of Tena Bar by daybreak regardless of where he entered the river.

What about Tosaw and Globe Indemnity who financed a submarine search of Lake Merwin ?  So much for "the record"!

For the record indeed! 

Did Cooper land in Lake Merwin?  Let's be serious. 

Tosaw may well have known that water runs downhill, but he apparently didn't understand that it would have to run uphill for the money to get from the river to several feet above the nominal river water level.  And don't claim the drudge had anything to do with the money.  It didn't.

For the record, my phrase above ". . . . . actually claiming . . . . ." should have been ". . . . . actually seriously claiming . . . . .".

Also for the record, what leads some people on this site to believe that 8-year old Brian Ingram wouldn't know a rubber band when he saw one?
 

Offline georger

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Re: Tena Bar Money Find
« Reply #6457 on: September 10, 2021, 01:34:09 AM »
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If Cooper no-pulls and goes in in the river, both the parachute and the money bag would at first be flotation, but would fairly quickly soak up and pull him under. If he pulls and lands with open canopy in the water he's in trouble. How strong is the current? What's downstream (populated vs. wilderness)? That canopy does not detach, so he's struggling to get out of the harness. He probably tries to ditch the money bag first, since it's in the way, but how securely is it tied? ...

For the record, I am not aware of anyone actually claiming that Cooper landed in the Columbia River or any water anywhere.  But if he did land in the Columbia River at about 8:11 PM PST, then he was probably well downstream of Tena Bar by daybreak regardless of where he entered the river.

What about Tosaw and Globe Indemnity who financed a submarine search of Lake Merwin ?  So much for "the record"!

For the record indeed! 

Did Cooper land in Lake Merwin?  Let's be serious. 

Tosaw may well have known that water runs downhill, but he apparently didn't understand that it would have to run uphill for the money to get from the river to several feet above the nominal river water level.  And don't claim the drudge had anything to do with the money.  It didn't.

For the record, my phrase above ". . . . . actually claiming . . . . ." should have been ". . . . . actually seriously claiming . . . . .".

Also for the record, what leads some people on this site to believe that 8-year old Brian Ingram wouldn't know a rubber band when he saw one?

I have no idea what all of this extraneous gesticulation amounts to. But as of tonight, for the first time in history two teenagers Raducanu and Fernandez, are headed to the women's final at the US Open. I hope you enjoyed the match. Cheers!

 
 

Offline georger

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Re: Tena Bar Money Find
« Reply #6458 on: September 10, 2021, 01:44:40 AM »
Quoting Kaye, 'A summer time immersion and subsequent burial moves the money find completely away from the hijacking event in November. With the constraints put on the time of the submersion, many theories are easily discounted but as many things in the Cooper case, this new information does not bring forth any new theories on how or why the money would find its way into the sand on Tena Bar during the summer months.'

Summer time, Tom says. Not Spring. He said Spring in his King-5 interview.

An interesting paradox, if I understand Tom's result, is that Tom inspected sand taken in 2010? from Tena Bar, with the diatoms found on his Cooper bill - not the same distribution of genera at all! Does that result further constrain when and how and where the Cooper bill was exposed to diatoms, versus what you would normally find in sand at T-Bar? Something has to explain the difference.   

Likewise, do bottom sediments dredged from the Columbia contain diatoms (dead ones) - you bet sediments do! How would those sediments compare with Cooper bill diatoms?

If Cooper money came up with the dredging sediments how would that affect the array of 'toms on the money? Would the array and condition of sediment 'toms match that found on the money, and for how long?  My guess is Tom would say they would not match, but why wouldnt they match?  BTW the sediment spoils were spread on TBar in August. August is in the summer last time I checked! (unless somebody at DZ has moved it too?)   

Lots to ponder here. Lets leave it at that. 
« Last Edit: September 10, 2021, 01:55:43 AM by georger »
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Tena Bar Money Find
« Reply #6459 on: September 10, 2021, 02:16:22 AM »
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Also for the record, what leads some people on this site to believe that 8-year old Brian Ingram wouldn't know a rubber band when he saw one?

yeah, I'll go with that. 8 year old Brian Ingram wouldn't know a decomposed rubber band from any random debris on the beach.
Heck he wouldn't even know that a rubber band might be used to hold bills together!
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Tena Bar Money Find
« Reply #6460 on: September 10, 2021, 02:17:45 AM »
Dredge spoils don't have diatoms.

I have no evidence of that, but if I say that I can publish a paper, I think.

The diatoms evaporate and go to diatom heaven when they die.

I read it on the web.
 

Offline georger

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Re: Tena Bar Money Find
« Reply #6461 on: September 10, 2021, 05:35:05 AM »
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Dredge spoils don't have diatoms.

I have no evidence of that, but if I say that I can publish a paper, I think.

The diatoms evaporate and go to diatom heaven when they die.

I read it on the web.

love it!   :rofl:  'that works for me.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2021, 05:43:37 AM by georger »
 

Offline Chaucer

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Re: Tena Bar Money Find
« Reply #6462 on: September 10, 2021, 12:40:39 PM »
According to Tom, it is impossible for Cooper’s money to end up in the Columbia the night of the hijacking because diatoms from that season are not present.

Regarding the confusion about the Spring/Summer stuff:  perhaps the diatoms “bloom” in early spring but are present through the early summer. Just a suggestion.

Lastly, I spoke with an expert on marine debris along the Columbia River. He’s an engineer and hydrologist. Provided some really compelling answers and insight. I’m working on transcribing the interview and will have it available for everyone here soon.
“Completely unhinged”
 
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Offline georger

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Re: Tena Bar Money Find
« Reply #6463 on: September 10, 2021, 01:54:47 PM »
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According to Tom, it is impossible for Cooper’s money to end up in the Columbia the night of the hijacking because diatoms from that season are not present.

Regarding the confusion about the Spring/Summer stuff:  perhaps the diatoms “bloom” in early spring but are present through the early summer. Just a suggestion.

Lastly, I spoke with an expert on marine debris along the Columbia River. He’s an engineer and hydrologist. Provided some really compelling answers and insight. I’m working on transcribing the interview and will have it available for everyone here soon.

glad to hear what he says -

track down Carr or Tina, or any other person who actually saw the money, and see what they say about the money today! Many people including me have second-hand opinions but nobody including FLYJACK knows for sure! Maybe Carr got it wrong - maybe he didn't!  ;) We need to hear from MANAGEMENT soon before the guy at DZ takes more prisoners - or throws himself off his throne!

* Why arent the bills covered with *billions/millions of diatoms instead of just a few? Something doesnt add up if that money was exposed to diatom-rich water. Maybe diatoms instinctively avoid Cooper money! ?  Why did it take years! to find any ? My car gets covered with dust immediately after every wash. Environments are as Environments do.   ?
   
« Last Edit: September 10, 2021, 02:11:08 PM by georger »
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Tena Bar Money Find
« Reply #6464 on: September 10, 2021, 07:00:44 PM »
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So many variables.
I think Tom K. said something about using "old" bills in his control testing, in case diatom attachment depended on age of bills (fresh vs old)

in 71, most of the Cooper bills were 63A or 69, so not that old
And they may have been mostly uncirculated. who knows. (most 2 to 8 years old)

So who knows what the variation in diatom attachment to bills is, based on who knows what?
 
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