Poll

How did the money arrive on Tena Bar

River Flooding
1 (5%)
Floated to it's resting spot via Columbia river
2 (10%)
Planted
6 (30%)
Dredge
11 (55%)
tossed in the river in a paper bag
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 17

Voting closed: August 16, 2016, 09:05:28 AM

Author Topic: Tena Bar Money Find  (Read 1260930 times)

Offline Chaucer

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1080
  • Thanked: 243 times
Re: Tena Bar Money Find
« Reply #6270 on: August 16, 2021, 07:21:08 PM »
If each of the bundles were held together by rubber bands, how did the missing $200 escape?
“Completely unhinged”
 

Offline EU

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1759
  • Thanked: 322 times
    • ERIC ULIS: From the History Channel
Re: Tena Bar Money Find
« Reply #6271 on: August 16, 2021, 07:25:15 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
okay.
I'm just saying your info from Brian about rubber bands debris on the front and back of each "bundle" in the center, seems like new info to me.
I don't think you can point to something with that amount of detail in older accounts?

or can you?

As far as I understand what you're saying, it's new info based on your personal conversations with Brian,  right?

I don't remember that amount of detail from prior accounts. So of course it should be questioned if it's new information?

That is correct. This is information from Brian directly. Some of it is even part of the archived Facebook Live conversation I had with him recently.

Additionally, Brian has provided additional context related to his mother cleaning the bills and what she noticed in terms of the rubber bands.

This is the data and version I'm running with. I have neither seen, read, or heard anything that contradicts it. As inconvenient for some as it may be, there were three separate straps, all stacked upon each other, found approximately 40 feet from the water's edge and at an elevation between 7'-8' above the Columbia on that February day. And they had been there for quite some time and rotted as such, which thereby fused each of these three straps into a separate clump with the darkest bills being on the ends of the straps.
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

RFK
 

Offline EU

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1759
  • Thanked: 322 times
    • ERIC ULIS: From the History Channel
Re: Tena Bar Money Find
« Reply #6272 on: August 16, 2021, 07:29:13 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
If each of the bundles were held together by rubber bands, how did the missing $200 escape?

None of the money was missing. Ultimately the auction house uncovered additional serial numbers and bills which pointed to a full $6,000 being found that day...albeit some of the bills were largely rotted away.

This came from Brian too, who provided me with the name of the woman who forensically analyzed the money for the auction house.
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

RFK
 

Offline snowmman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1877
  • Thanked: 176 times
Re: Tena Bar Money Find
« Reply #6273 on: August 16, 2021, 07:30:45 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
And they had been there for quite some time and rotted as such, which thereby fused each of these three straps into a separate clump with the darkest bills being on the ends of the straps.

What information did he provide about "darkest" bills, or darkness variation? Is it just saying that the darker bills he provided to ha.com were on the outside of the bundles?

"darkness" is an important concept because the fbi has pics of very dark bills, and they have never acknowledged that they themselves caused that darkness (recent black bill pics in plastic bags, by fbi)

I always thought that the main "darkness" in pics from the FBI plastic bagged bills was from the silver nitrate used to test for prints.

Are you talking about the variation in darkness visible in the ha.com photos, or other photos, or memories that are not verifiable with photos?
« Last Edit: August 16, 2021, 07:31:19 PM by snowmman »
 

Offline snowmman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1877
  • Thanked: 176 times
Re: Tena Bar Money Find
« Reply #6274 on: August 16, 2021, 07:33:39 PM »
EU said " And they had been there for quite some time "

EU, you shouldn't mix speculation about one thing (length of time) with information from a witness..

you have no data in that post that talks about length of time, other than in a speculative manner.. That's a complicated matter, and Brian is, by far, not qualified to offer any informed opinion other than their physical state when he found them.

edit: more specifically, regardless of their condition and any determination about weathering factors..the amount of time they were in that particular physical location can't be determined from available information.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2021, 07:36:12 PM by snowmman »
 

Offline EU

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1759
  • Thanked: 322 times
    • ERIC ULIS: From the History Channel
Re: Tena Bar Money Find
« Reply #6275 on: August 16, 2021, 07:35:21 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
And they had been there for quite some time and rotted as such, which thereby fused each of these three straps into a separate clump with the darkest bills being on the ends of the straps.

What information did he provide about "darkest" bills, or darkness variation? Is it just saying that the darker bills he provided to ha.com were on the outside of the bundles?

"darkness" is an important concept because the fbi has pics of very dark bills, and they have never acknowledged that they themselves caused that darkness (recent black bill pics in plastic bags, by fbi)

I always thought that the main "darkness" in pics from the FBI plastic bagged bills was from the silver nitrate used to test for prints.

Are you talking about the variation in darkness visible in the ha.com photos, or other photos, or memories that are not verifiable with photos?

No, he's not referring to the black, silver nitrate, bills. It's just that the bills on the end were more soiled and darker than the ones near the center of the fused straps.
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

RFK
 

Offline EU

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1759
  • Thanked: 322 times
    • ERIC ULIS: From the History Channel
Re: Tena Bar Money Find
« Reply #6276 on: August 16, 2021, 07:37:15 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
EU said " And they had been there for quite some time "

EU, you shouldn't mix speculation about one thing (length of time) with information from a witness..

you have no data in that post that talks about length of time, other than in a speculative manner.. That's a complicated matter, and Brian is, by far, not qualified to offer any informed opinion other than their physical state when he found them.

That is correct. This is a statement I'm making based upon the conditions of the straps and what I have seen from Tom's analysis of his buried cash.
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

RFK
 

Offline snowmman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1877
  • Thanked: 176 times
Re: Tena Bar Money Find
« Reply #6277 on: August 16, 2021, 07:38:58 PM »
okay.

I guess we don't know what all could cause darkening of bills on the outside.

Is it due to algae growth?
Or is it discoloring due to sun?

If it was discoloring due to sun, i would think it would just be the top or bottom of a bundle, which was exposed to sun.

Is the theory that a bundle submerged in water over a period of time, gets discolored on the outside of the bundle, top and bottom?

or what is the theory about this darkness variation?

edit: or I guess a bundle buried in sand gets darker on the outside? algae growth again?
« Last Edit: August 16, 2021, 07:40:05 PM by snowmman »
 

Offline EU

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1759
  • Thanked: 322 times
    • ERIC ULIS: From the History Channel
Re: Tena Bar Money Find
« Reply #6278 on: August 16, 2021, 07:41:38 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
okay.

I guess we don't know what all could cause darkening of bills on the outside.

Is it due to algae growth?
Or is it discoloring due to sun?

If it was discoloring due to sun, i would think it would just be the top or bottom of a bundle, which was exposed to sun.

Is the theory that a bundle submerged in water over a period of time, gets discolored on the outside of the bundle, top and bottom?

or what is the theory about this darkness variation?

edit: or I guess a bundle buried in sand gets darker on the outside? algae growth again?

I believe his mother was able to wash a lot of this dirt off. So it appears to have merely been dirt from resting in the hole.
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

RFK
 

Offline snowmman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1877
  • Thanked: 176 times
Re: Tena Bar Money Find
« Reply #6279 on: August 16, 2021, 07:43:30 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
okay.

I guess we don't know what all could cause darkening of bills on the outside.

Is it due to algae growth?
Or is it discoloring due to sun?

If it was discoloring due to sun, i would think it would just be the top or bottom of a bundle, which was exposed to sun.

Is the theory that a bundle submerged in water over a period of time, gets discolored on the outside of the bundle, top and bottom?

or what is the theory about this darkness variation?

edit: or I guess a bundle buried in sand gets darker on the outside? algae growth again?

I believe his mother was able to wash a lot of this dirt off. So it appears to have merely been dirt from resting in the hole.

well if that's true, that's interesting too.
I was going to suggest oxidation of the outside currency as a likely darkening method, in addition to sun or algae.

but, if the darkening was solely dirt, and when cleaned, the bills displayed uniform color regardless of their position in the bundle, (not outside vs outside). that's interesting, maybe.
 

Offline Chaucer

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1080
  • Thanked: 243 times
Re: Tena Bar Money Find
« Reply #6280 on: August 16, 2021, 07:49:12 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
If each of the bundles were held together by rubber bands, how did the missing $200 escape?

None of the money was missing. Ultimately the auction house uncovered additional serial numbers and bills which pointed to a full $6,000 being found that day...albeit some of the bills were largely rotted away.

This came from Brian too, who provided me with the name of the woman who forensically analyzed the money for the auction house.
Good info. Thank you.

I would assume that the fragments found spread out along the beach would also account for the "missing" bills?
« Last Edit: August 16, 2021, 07:50:30 PM by Chaucer »
“Completely unhinged”
 

Offline Shutter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9300
  • Thanked: 1024 times
Re: Tena Bar Money Find
« Reply #6281 on: August 16, 2021, 10:46:50 PM »
Quote
PCGS Currency staff members discovered nearly three dozen serial numbers that apparently had not been previously recorded by the Federal Bureau of Investigation.

Did they confirm what serial numbers were finally found that wasn't recorded. it would add up over $6,000
 

Offline snowmman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1877
  • Thanked: 176 times
Re: Tena Bar Money Find
« Reply #6282 on: August 16, 2021, 10:47:40 PM »
Just did a quick look at the famous "FBI bills on green table covered by plastic" after the Ingrams notified FBI and the FBI did a press event.

I notice no significant darkening of the top bills displayed.

Possibly some top bills were washed down the sink.

If anything, the lack of significant darkening in this pic is interesting.

Yes the 3 bundles have been separated in this pic, so you can decide what's the original "top of 3 bundles"

Has that been explained? Are there "dark" ha.com pics that people use as a reference for non-uniform darkening of the found bills?

« Last Edit: August 16, 2021, 10:48:56 PM by snowmman »
 

Offline snowmman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1877
  • Thanked: 176 times
Re: Tena Bar Money Find
« Reply #6283 on: August 16, 2021, 10:59:15 PM »
What causes rubbers bands to become hard and fall off leaving no trace, as opposed to being sticky and staying stuck? Is it one or the other based on "something" or ???

Were the rubber bands hard, or sticky?

I don't think any experiments have been done to explain how the cooper rubber bands disappeared between the find, and the fbi photographs.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2021, 11:11:02 PM by snowmman »
 

Offline snowmman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1877
  • Thanked: 176 times
Re: Tena Bar Money Find
« Reply #6284 on: August 16, 2021, 11:21:14 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Quote
PCGS Currency staff members discovered nearly three dozen serial numbers that apparently had not been previously recorded by the Federal Bureau of Investigation.

Did they confirm what serial numbers were finally found that wasn't recorded. it would add up over $6,000

I thought the ha.com "discovery" is that serial numbers that matched the list were found in the fragments, based on more extensive partial matching.
I don't think ha.com said they found serials not on the list. That would have been stunning and had more detail in any ha.com reporting.