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GEORGER I'm trying to understand your point. What are you attempting to prove?

I've spent an enormous amount of time analyzing Tena Bar from afar as well as on the ground. This last trip I spent time noting the layers of earth that make-up Tena Bar, identifying trees, even got drone footage. That's called research. What's wrong with that?

What have you done? What insight can you provide regarding Tena Bar or the money find? If you have any I'd love to hear it if it's not BS. After all, I'm attempting to understand precisely what happened at Tena Bar because I believe it's the Holy Grail in this case as it pertains to what happened and where.

My pov is quite simple:  the money find is nothing but an artifact 'of the case'. The money find is not the case, and not the whole case.

But, my case facts are different from your 'case conjectures'.

That's the difference. Im not peddling a tv or movie production!  I have no vested interest other than the "facts" of the case. One glaring fact about this case is: there is a huge lack of unimpeachable facts.  The gap includes everything from aspects of the flight path, when and where Cooper bailed and landed, and a lack of forensic facts about the money due to people's lack of laboratory testing when testing could and should have been done. That's the short version of my POV.   

There is nothing glamorous about my pov.

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I don't get all this talk of "self burial"

A lot of material was uncovered during the dig, including cans, nails and other garbage. Did someone have to physically bury everything?

Two critically important factors:

1) A significant portion of the debris on Tena Bar was left there by fisherman on the beach.

2) The buried items were all heavier than water (metal). I am unaware of any buried paper (like currency) being found.

Agents who actually worked the beach could learn a lot from you. Did you know that Portland is close to Tena Bar? Some of the Portland agents spent years fishing at Tena Bar. LE that live in a place often get to know the place they live in ? Some of my family have lived in the area since 19 and 32 after Kate and her husband went out there on a trip. You can see some of these people in the picture of chaos - attachmont.  Katy and X got married and raised four children in the Portland-Vancouver area. Because they loved skiing they got to know one of the Tell Tena daughters - the family that sold the Fazio farmers their land!

Feel free to disprove either point 1 or point 2.

I will ask Katy and her husband who dug the beach.  Feel free to disprove that! Good luck with your movie script or whatever it is.

While you're at it, why don't you ask the Fazios who also dug the beach.

Like it or not Georger, I probably know more about that beach than anyone.

Georger, how many times have you been to Tena Bar?  Z-E-R-O?

Isaac Newton wasnt on Tena Bar either! 

How could somebody who HAD a placard analysis and has been to Ten Bar have been so God damned wrong! ?  Apparently having been at Tena Bar doesn't mean anything and it may even be a curse, could even be a sign of zealous mendacity! I haven't been inside my sister's stomach, but I know my sister! 

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No.  I think the money got there by natural means and that it probably came out of the money bag at the location where it was found.  The money bag may have still been attached to Cooper's mortal remains at that point.

This is likely the only thing Bob and I agree on.

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Money sinks after being wet for fifteen minutes... not sure what the argument here is. R99, do you believe Cooper buried the money?

No.  I think the money got there by natural means and that it probably came out of the money bag at the location where it was found.  The money bag may have still been attached to Cooper's mortal remains at that point.

Regardless, it is a given that the money bag was moving downhill (from a higher energy state to a lower energy state) at that time and only a flood event would be able to cause this.  Thus, Cooper must have been a no-pull who impacted on solid ground several feet higher than the elevation of the location where the money was found.  When the flood waters reached Coopers elevation, the money bag and probably what was left of Cooper was dislodged and moved downstream and downhill vertically.  After several months on solid ground, neither Cooper nor anything attached to him would have any flotation capability and would move along the bottom of the water.

For the money to end up at Tena Bar, Cooper would have to impact upstream (to the south) and on the west side of the Northwest Lower River Road.  This road is built on top of a levee and anything on the east side of it ends up in Vacouver Lake and enters the Columbia River about 15 miles downstream (to the north) of Tena Bar.  Things on the west side of the road end up in the Columbia.  The river channel between Caterpillar Island and the east bank of the Columbia provides a boundary layer that would prevent anything in the river from washing up on Tena Bar.  Any such debris would stay in the main river channel at least until it was past Tena Bar.

Consequently, Cooper was probably a no-pull who impacted on the east bank of Caterpillar Island, or on the east shore of the river channel that separates the island from the mainland.  And he would not have entered this channel from the southern tip of Caterpillar Island.  So a simple consideration of the geography in the Tena Bar and Caterpillar Island area means that Cooper's impact point can be narrowed down to a very small area.   

In other words: a modified Tosaw scenario.

That was tested rather thoroughly for over a decade, not only by Tosaw & company, but by others, with nothing found. We dont even have an estimate of when the Cooper money came to be buried at Tina Bar, due to no laboratory testing when testing could have been done. We could not even conduct those tests today with the same accuracy. All we know is the money was exposed to Columbia regional diatoms some time, between 1972 and . . . ? The whole excavation occurred and nobody thought to keep lab samples and test them! and on and on its goes. The Court split up the evidence so the Ingram find is no longer a 'group' which can be tested and evaluated as a group! We don't know if the Ingram Find was at Tina Bar in late 1971 or as late as the Spring of 1979.     

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Money sinks after being wet for fifteen minutes... not sure what the argument here is. R99, do you believe Cooper buried the money?

No.  I think the money got there by natural means and that it probably came out of the money bag at the location where it was found.  The money bag may have still been attached to Cooper's mortal remains at that point.

Regardless, it is a given that the money bag was moving downhill (from a higher energy state to a lower energy state) at that time and only a flood event would be able to cause this.  Thus, Cooper must have been a no-pull who impacted on solid ground several feet higher than the elevation of the location where the money was found.  When the flood waters reached Coopers elevation, the money bag and probably what was left of Cooper was dislodged and moved downstream and downhill vertically.  After several months on solid ground, neither Cooper nor anything attached to him would have any flotation capability and would move along the bottom of the water.

For the money to end up at Tena Bar, Cooper would have to impact upstream (to the south) and on the west side of the Northwest Lower River Road.  This road is built on top of a levee and anything on the east side of it ends up in Vacouver Lake and enters the Columbia River about 15 miles downstream (to the north) of Tena Bar.  Things on the west side of the road end up in the Columbia.  The river channel between Caterpillar Island and the east bank of the Columbia provides a boundary layer that would prevent anything in the river from washing up on Tena Bar.  Any such debris would stay in the main river channel at least until it was past Tena Bar.

Consequently, Cooper was probably a no-pull who impacted on the east bank of Caterpillar Island, or on the east shore of the river channel that separates the island from the mainland.  And he would not have entered this channel from the southern tip of Caterpillar Island.  So a simple consideration of the geography in the Tena Bar and Caterpillar Island area means that Cooper's impact point can be narrowed down to a very small area.   

In other words: a modified Tosaw scenario.

That was tested rather thoroughly for over a decade, not only by Tosaw & company, but by others, with nothing found. We dont even have an estimate of when the Cooper money came to be buried at Tina Bar, due to no laboratory testing when testing could have been done. We could not even conduct those tests today with the same accuracy. All we know is the money was exposed to Columbia regional diatoms some time, between 1972 and . . . ? The whole excavation occurred and nobody thought to keep lab samples and test them! and on and on its goes. The Court split up the evidence so the Ingram find is no longer a 'group' which can be tested and evaluated as a group! We don't know if the Ingram Find was at Tina Bar in late 1971 or as late as the Spring of 1979.     

Modified Tosaw scenario?   I didn't know Tosaw had a scenario.  But I understand he was interested in what was underwater just off Tena Bar.  If so, he was looking in the wrong place.

Try to sell that in Court!

All facts are relevant. Every instant of time is potentially unique. There is this thing called history. Time is a sequence of events in time that tell a story. The how is that sequence ....  people are often asked 'how' a thing happened. What people usually want is the sequence or chain of events that lead up to a certain point or status quo, in time .... but every step along the way matters. Things evolve.

By your scenario, why would it matter is a particle was ever anything other than what it appears to be in the here-and-now? Or a species? Or a solar system? Or a whole Universe? History would mean nothing ... and existence would be a flat plate.... held up by a Unicorn!

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Money sinks after being wet for fifteen minutes... not sure what the argument here is. R99, do you believe Cooper buried the money?

No.  I think the money got there by natural means and that it probably came out of the money bag at the location where it was found.  The money bag may have still been attached to Cooper's mortal remains at that point.

Regardless, it is a given that the money bag was moving downhill (from a higher energy state to a lower energy state) at that time and only a flood event would be able to cause this.  Thus, Cooper must have been a no-pull who impacted on solid ground several feet higher than the elevation of the location where the money was found.  When the flood waters reached Coopers elevation, the money bag and probably what was left of Cooper was dislodged and moved downstream and downhill vertically.  After several months on solid ground, neither Cooper nor anything attached to him would have any flotation capability and would move along the bottom of the water.

For the money to end up at Tena Bar, Cooper would have to impact upstream (to the south) and on the west side of the Northwest Lower River Road.  This road is built on top of a levee and anything on the east side of it ends up in Vacouver Lake and enters the Columbia River about 15 miles downstream (to the north) of Tena Bar.  Things on the west side of the road end up in the Columbia.  The river channel between Caterpillar Island and the east bank of the Columbia provides a boundary layer that would prevent anything in the river from washing up on Tena Bar.  Any such debris would stay in the main river channel at least until it was past Tena Bar.

Consequently, Cooper was probably a no-pull who impacted on the east bank of Caterpillar Island, or on the east shore of the river channel that separates the island from the mainland.  And he would not have entered this channel from the southern tip of Caterpillar Island.  So a simple consideration of the geography in the Tena Bar and Caterpillar Island area means that Cooper's impact point can be narrowed down to a very small area.   

In other words: a modified Tosaw scenario.

That was tested rather thoroughly for over a decade, not only by Tosaw & company, but by others, with nothing found. We dont even have an estimate of when the Cooper money came to be buried at Tina Bar, due to no laboratory testing when testing could have been done. We could not even conduct those tests today with the same accuracy. All we know is the money was exposed to Columbia regional diatoms some time, between 1972 and . . . ? The whole excavation occurred and nobody thought to keep lab samples and test them! and on and on its goes. The Court split up the evidence so the Ingram find is no longer a 'group' which can be tested and evaluated as a group! We don't know if the Ingram Find was at Tina Bar in late 1971 or as late as the Spring of 1979.     

Modified Tosaw scenario?   I didn't know Tosaw had a scenario.  But I understand he was interested in what was underwater just off Tena Bar.  If so, he was looking in the wrong place.

You obviously pay no attention to other people's work, or would know something about it!