Author Topic: Tena Bar Money Find (Read 1554686 times)

andrade1812 · « **Reply #6075 on:** March 28, 2021, 07:51:25 PM »

Richard McCoy went into a bad spin in his jump; the money bag shifted on him and rolled him face up. He was trying to evade search planes so he delayed pulling until really late in the jump. He even said the parachute lines twisted during the opening, spinning him some more.

Shutter · « **Reply #6076 on:** March 28, 2021, 08:27:49 PM »

McNally, also went into a bad spin just with a movement of his arm.

Bruce A. Smith · « **Reply #6077 on:** March 29, 2021, 04:15:04 AM »

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I believe...

... he jumped with the NB6 packed with a 28' conical (yes, over sized for the container.)

Why do you believe he jumped with the NB-6/28-foot ensemble?

Shutter · « **Reply #6078 on:** March 29, 2021, 11:10:19 AM »

It's hard to tell what they had when looking at the 302's. one of the reserves/chest packs had a name inscribed like the chest pack in evidence "Johnson". one 302, actually, two 302's describe the chest pack having a name on the container. one is redacted. it's also possible they got the colors mixed up describing the harness and container. below is two documents surrounding the chutes taken. you have to wonder if a dummy chute was on the plane...they should be telling the lab half the chute is missing on the chest pack..

Chutes taken by Cooper described below dated Nov. 26, 1971

1. Chest pact type 24 foot white nylon canopy, white nylon shrouds, about 14' in length. model T-7A. chute container was olive drab green with REDACTED inscribed. container dimensions 10" by 14" by 6"

2. Back-type chute, 28 foot, white canopy, flat circular military type. chute container is olive drab military. chute harness is civilian luxury type made of 50 foot tan cotton material.

Letter to the lab describes the chutes taken by Cooper. dated 8/22/2001

1. backpack #1 28 foot white nylon canopy, rip stop material, material 1.1 ounce weight. flat circular military, non- steerable, white shrouds, harness was civilian luxury type, soft tan. backpack was navy type 6. sage green nylon.

2. chest pack # 1 24 foot, white nylon canopy, white nylon shrouds - 14' length model T-7A. container was olive drab green 10" x 14" x 6". "Norm D" inscribed on container.

Robert99 · « **Reply #6079 on:** March 29, 2021, 01:50:57 PM »

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I believe...

... he jumped with the NB6 packed with a 28' conical (yes, over sized for the container.)

Why do you believe he jumped with the NB-6/28-foot ensemble?

Bruce, didn't Hayden tell you that both of his backpack chutes were similar? That is, the chute Cooper jumped with was similar to the chute that was returned to Hayden and that is now in the WSHM.

There is no way to tell what canopy is in the WSHM chute without opening the container. But neither the harness, container, or pilot chute are NB-6 type items. That can be determined by just looking at it.

377 · « **Reply #6080 on:** March 29, 2021, 02:48:31 PM »

R99 wrote “ There is no way to tell what canopy is in the WSHM chute without opening the container.”

The packing card should identify the type and SN of the canopy. If the card is missing R99 is correct. No way to ID the canopy without opening the container.

EU identified the canopy as a 28 ft Conical. Surplus Navy Conicals were 26 ft. C9 military round canopies were 28 ft. I’ve jumped both. Both are VERY rugged canopies. FAR stronger than similar sized sport canopies.

377

Shutter · « **Reply #6081 on:** March 29, 2021, 02:55:21 PM »

The packing card matches to an extent. when you look at the evidence list it shows what appears to be two different chutes. the card shows a serial number of 226 while the evidence shows 60-9707 if correct. it also states a 24 foot canopy while the one at the museum shows 26 foot?

Shutter · « **Reply #6082 on:** March 29, 2021, 03:09:13 PM »

The evidence list is below...the red square shows the back chute found on the plane. the FBI reads the card wrong and documenting the card. you see 226 and 9/57.

Below that it states the chute was found on the plane. they describe it different from what the card reads. nothing is on the card stating 60-9707 or a date of 7/60. they also state 24 foot vs 26 foot..

Bruce A. Smith · « **Reply #6083 on:** March 29, 2021, 05:01:32 PM »

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Bruce, didn't Hayden tell you that both of his backpack chutes were similar?

Yes.

That is why I wonder why Eric is stating definitively that DBC used the NB-6 with a 28-foot conical, as per Cossey's variable pronouncements. Last time I talked with Coss he denied the NB-6 and said it was an NB-8.

The bigger question may be how the "NB-6/28-footer" information ended up in the 302s.

An even bigger question is why Larry Carr touted the NB-6/28-footer perspective so vigorously and so publicly.

Perhaps the biggest question is why Larry Carr, et. al., ignored or dismissed Norman Hayden and his chutes. Or why they never read their own documents and knew of Norman.

Shutter · « **Reply #6084 on:** March 29, 2021, 05:03:06 PM »

I guess it depends on what you read and when it was written. the chutes have different stories throughout the years..

Chutes taken by Cooper described below dated Nov. 26, 1971

1. Chest pack type 24 foot white nylon canopy, white nylon shrouds, about 14' in length. model T-7A. chute container was olive drab green with REDACTED inscribed. container dimensions 10" by 14" by 6"

2. Back-type chute, 28 foot, white canopy, flat circular military type. chute container is olive drab military. chute harness is civilian luxury type made of 50 foot tan cotton material.

Letter to the lab describes the chutes taken by Cooper. dated 8/22/2001

1. backpack #1 28 foot white nylon canopy, rip stop material, material 1.1 ounce weight. flat circular military, non- steerable, white shrouds, harness was civilian luxury type, soft tan. backpack was navy type 6. sage green nylon.

2. chest pack # 1 24 foot, white nylon canopy, white nylon shrouds - 14' length model T-7A. container was olive drab green 10" x 14" x 6". "Norm D" inscribed on container.

Bruce A. Smith · « **Reply #6085 on:** March 29, 2021, 05:07:39 PM »

I strongly suspect that the above information is simply a compendium of what Cossey told FBI agents and they wrote it down in their 302s as "gospel."

I don't think the above information was gathered by direct observation of the chutes by the FBI agents. If it was, then the agents failed to state where and when the chutes were observed.

Shutter · « **Reply #6086 on:** March 29, 2021, 05:11:18 PM »

It's foolish and dangerous documentation IMO. one of the 302's above was sent to the lab to help identify a chute. that one describes the chute or container as a NB6.

They should of had a main file for all the evidence vs allowing agents to possibly log the wrong information.

Where does Norm D fit into things or mixed up?

Robert99 · « **Reply #6087 on:** March 29, 2021, 07:24:33 PM »

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It's foolish and dangerous documentation IMO. one of the 302's above was sent to the lab to help identify a chute. that one describes the chute or container as a NB6.

They should of had a main file for all the evidence vs allowing agents to possibly log the wrong information.

Where does Norm D fit into things or mixed up?

If the container was an NB-6 type, then the pilot chute would have to be specifically designed for it since the third packing cone from the top was actually on the pilot chute. Pictures of the WSHM parachute plainly show that the pilot chute is centered between the second and third packing cones from the top and is thus not an NB-6 pilot chute. The container has four packing cones and is not an NB-6 container.

Shutter · « **Reply #6088 on:** March 29, 2021, 07:48:59 PM »

I agree Robert, the problem is the missing chute is documented as a NB6. the chute in the museum owned by Hayden has different descriptions to it as well.

They don't seem to have any document that clearly describes the chutes. even in 2001 they don't seem to acknowledge a dummy chute. you might want to alert the lab of that in the document?

No agent has ever mentioned one of the chest packs with a name of Norm D on the container. where did that come from?

Nothing really matches anything in it's totality..

Bruce A. Smith · « **Reply #6089 on:** March 30, 2021, 03:07:38 AM »

"Norm D?" Who dat? Was this name written on a chute?

Poll

How did the money arrive on Tena Bar

Author Topic: Tena Bar Money Find (Read 1554686 times)

andrade1812

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Robert99

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