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Was there more than 100 rubber banded bills in the bag? I'm not even sure who this would fool to begin with. who wouldn't think the law wouldn't mark or copy the serial numbers? should be pretty basic knowledge they wouldn't just give money away that can't be tracked?

Depends on how the money was packaged. Total amount 200k. I thought Carr solved this issue years ago. That was pre Flyjack. Now I dont know.

My point was the bundles being different amounts would call for more bundles vs 100 bundles at 2k each. Cooper pulled out 3 "packets" banded together to give the stew, or two, maybe four "packets" banded together?

Speaking with Eric this evening we agreed that Brian probably can't go into details about this..8 years old and 50 years ago..long time. still worth getting everything he remembers..

3 packets is Tina's words?  She uses the word packets. Banded together? What is she saying? Im not a mind reader.  Each of the 'packets' had its own strap or something. What does mean by packet? I will agree there is total confusion about what people are saying here. But it has nothing to do with people being dumb or stupid or   ....

Bundle is a well defined Federal Reserve term. Has real meaning. But there isnt one document so far that says anything about Bundle being FR bundle. Packet is definitely NOT a formal banking term even with the Federal Reserve. The words parcels and packages have also been thrown around. I dont read minds.

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One thing I asked Shutter today, "Who gives a shit what precise minute DBC actually jumped?"

Whether it's 8:08, 8:10, 8:12 or 8:15, the money still ended up on Tena Bar. How?

Remember, Tena Bar is effectively on an island. There are--and were in 1971--only two ways to access the island Tena Bar is located upon:

1) Via the River "S" Bridge near the northern part of the Ridgefield National Wildlife Refuge (8 miles away)

2) Via the south from Vancouver (8 miles away).

Neither of these are plausible. Indeed, may I suggest that the only plausible landing zone is very near Tena Bar itself where our man DBC is not being asked to walk 10, 20, 30 miles lugging around 35-80 lbs worth of money, parachute and bomb.

I would disagree with your characterization that an arrival of the money from the river upstream is not plausible. If you find debris - say a tree branch - washed up on the edge of a riverbank, the most logical conclusion would be that the tree branch came from further upstream somewhere.

That is why in my mind getting as accurate a jump time as possible is critical. If we can discern a jump time that puts Cooper in the vicinity of the Columbia, then we can reasonably conclude that that is how the money arrived on Tena Bar. Without an accurate jump time, there really are no logical explanations that fit within the known evidence for the money's arrival on that riverbank.

I need to point out that 8:11-8:13 is still some distance from the Columbia or any obvious tributary to the Columbia. Nothing obvious connects Cooper and money to landing in the Columbia. That is why Tom said what he originally said - something is missing in the story.

I know what my cousin in LE at Clark County said! "If the money is here, Cooper was here - period." Meaning that Cooper had to have walked to the Vancouver area from further north, and something happened in the Vancouver area we may never know. Short of a major breakdown in the data at hand, Cooper did not just jump, fall,or land in the Columbia but north or NE of Vancouver. Which means TBar money got to Tbar due to some facts nobody knows or can even imagine ...     

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One thing I asked Shutter today, "Who gives a shit what precise minute DBC actually jumped?"

Whether it's 8:08, 8:10, 8:12 or 8:15, the money still ended up on Tena Bar. How?

Remember, Tena Bar is effectively on an island. There are--and were in 1971--only two ways to access the island Tena Bar is located upon:

1) Via the River "S" Bridge near the northern part of the Ridgefield National Wildlife Refuge (8 miles away)

2) Via the south from Vancouver (8 miles away).

Neither of these are plausible. Indeed, may I suggest that the only plausible landing zone is very near Tena Bar itself where our man DBC is not being asked to walk 10, 20, 30 miles lugging around 35-80 lbs worth of money, parachute and bomb.

I would disagree with your characterization that an arrival of the money from the river upstream is not plausible. If you find debris - say a tree branch - washed up on the edge of a riverbank, the most logical conclusion would be that the tree branch came from further upstream somewhere.

That is why in my mind getting as accurate a jump time as possible is critical. If we can discern a jump time that puts Cooper in the vicinity of the Columbia, then we can reasonably conclude that that is how the money arrived on Tena Bar. Without an accurate jump time, there really are no logical explanations that fit within the known evidence for the money's arrival on that riverbank.

I need to point out that 8:11-8:13 is still some distance from the Columbia or any obvious tributary to the Columbia. Nothing obvious connects Cooper and money to landing in the Columbia. That is why Tom said what he originally said - something is missing in the story.

I know what my cousin in LE at Clark County said! "If the money is here, Cooper was here - period." Meaning that Cooper had to have walked to the Vancouver area from further north, and something happened in the Vancouver area we may never know. Short of sa major breakdown in the data at hand, Cooper did not just jump, fall,or land in the Columbia but north or NE of Vancouver. Which means TBar money got there due to some facts nobody knows or can even imagine ...     

Yes, I agree to an extent. Currently there is no hard evidence of a landing near the river. Only assumptions and vague statements from the crew. That said, I think the evidence pointing to a jump prior to 8:13 is dubious.

I think 8:11 or close to that.

Its also interesting to me that the FBI failed to nail and document/302s THE EXACT FORM THE MONEY WAS PACKED IN FOR COPPER. That is a major forensic fact central to the case! Its fine to throw around words assuming people can mind meld and know ... later! Carr an FBI guy comes along and he cant even decipher what in hell 302s are saying or not saying. I feel for Larry! I feel for anyone trying to decipher this mess.....   the money was packed in some specific form.  Its so many years later now the people involved are dead and gone. 

This is why what the Ingrams saw and the Lab found is very important to me. Neither reported a trace of paper straps. Only rubber bands.

I know what my cousin in LE at Clark County said! "If the money is here, Cooper was here - period."

Not necessarily. Eric points out that Cooper had to remove some of the money from the bank bag in order to tie it shut. If true, that means Cooper had at least two stows of money on him, either/any of which could have separated from him at any time - exit, opening, landing... That means that the Tena Bar money and Cooper did not necessarily have to follow the same path.

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I know what my cousin in LE at Clark County said! "If the money is here, Cooper was here - period."

Not necessarily. Eric points out that Cooper had to remove some of the money from the bank bag in order to tie it shut. If true, that means Cooper had at least two stows of money on him, either/any of which could have separated from him at any time - exit, opening, landing... That means that the Tena Bar money and Cooper did not necessarily have to follow the same path.

There is no need to tie the top as you might tie a garbage bag.  The bag was sufficient to contain the money and Cooper took enough shroud lines from the remaining reserve to wrap around the money bag about 10 times.  He could have used his pocket knife to punch holes in the top of the bag, run the shroud lines through those holes to close the bag, and then had plenty of cord to tie the money bag to himself.

If Cooper tied the money bag to himself with a lanyard, resulting in an "earth & moon" arrangement, then he was almost certainly a no-pull.  That would be a really dumb way to do it.

I have never come across anything that specifically states the size of the bank bag. But there are several clues that strongly indicate that it was a Size H bank bag.

Additionally, we do know the exact size of the pile of ransom and its weight.

All of that said, it is clear to me that Cooper had to remove approximately 25% of the ransom (50K) from the bank bag to stow somewhere else before the jump--the bank bag was too full. I have replicated this with bank bag and money and taken photos, one of which is available at: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login .

Cooper used shroud line to create a belt around his waist. I believe he used this belt to attach the bank bag, the dummy reserve (holding 50K), and the attache' case. This means everything Cooper would have been jumping with was attached to this belt made of shroud line and the items would have been hanging in front of his crotch and thighs just like military jumpers and smoke jumpers.

Cooper used shroud line to create a belt around his waist. I believe he used this belt to attach the bank bag, the dummy reserve (holding 50K), and the attache' case. This means everything Cooper would have been jumping with was attached to this belt made of shroud line and the items would have been hanging in front of his crotch and thighs just like military jumpers and smoke jumpers.

Do you have a theory as to why he would take everything with him? For instance, if all the money fit into the bag and the reserve, is there a reason why he would take the briefcase with him as opposed to just pitching it out the back?

Would all the money (or how much of it would) fit into the briefcase if he pitched the 'bomb' contents?

The overall point being, if all the money fit into one or two of those containers, is there a reason he would encumber himself with all three items?

I have never come across anything that specifically states the size of the bank bag. But there are several clues that strongly indicate that it was a Size H bank bag.

Additionally, we do know the exact size of the pile of ransom and its weight.

All of that said, it is clear to me that Cooper had to remove approximately 25% of the ransom (50K) from the bank bag to stow somewhere else before the jump--the bank bag was too full. I have replicated this with bank bag and money and taken photos, one of which is available at: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login .

Cooper used shroud line to create a belt around his waist. I believe he used this belt to attach the bank bag, the dummy reserve (holding 50K), and the attache' case. This means everything Cooper would have been jumping with was attached to this belt made of shroud line and the items would have been hanging in front of his crotch and thighs just like military jumpers and smoke jumpers.

I think Tina describes two different configs she saw, at two different times. I'll look them up and attach. But he told her he was pissed no backpack had been supplied - he said he wanted to use that to carry the money. 

Ok here -  money bag configs as per Tina:

Tina:
(a) It was at this time that Mucklow recalls he stated he would be forced to use one of the parachutes to rewrap the money since he had not been furnished the knapsack. At this same time Mucklow says she suddenly observed him having a small green paper bag, contents unknown.

(b) Mucklow states that at takeoff the hijacker was using several seats and was occupied with opening one of the parachutes and attempting to pack the money in the parachute container and attach it to his body using the parachute straps.

(c) Mucklow’s description is somewhat vague but she says he removed a small jack-knife from his pocket and he cut some portion of the outside container or the parachute in order to secure the money in ‘this’ rather than in the white cloth type bank bag which had been furnished him. She says that she did not see him tamper with the two large parachute containers other than to generally inspect them when she brought them aboard.       

(d)
7:54 pm    t1   
MSP:      As soon as reasonably sure the man has left the quicker you can land.
305:       Roger. Miss Mucklow said he apparently has the knapsack around him
and thinks he will attempt a jump. 
MSP:      Roger. After leaving this freq go to 131.8 we have direct phone patch
There (to Company and FBI)
305:       Roger.