Author Topic: Tena Bar Money Find (Read 1555280 times)

EU · « **Reply #5910 on:** March 12, 2021, 11:11:00 PM »

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Regarding, the islands, Government and Lemon Islands are uninhabited and are only accessible with a permit. I would also be doubtful that too many people would be tramping along the island in the middle of winter.

These islands are state parks. They're accessible by anyone. Moreover, there are public-access laws in place that govern shoreline along the entirety of the Columbia River and island shoreline. Simply put, people are allowed free access to the beach. And these shorelines and properties are regularly visited year-round in the Pacific Northwest.

My point is that there is no land adjacent to, or on, the Columbia River that hasn't seen every square inch regularly traversed by hikers, boaters, partiers and the like year-in and year-out for decades. Again, this is in the middle of a large metropolitan area literally right next to PDX.

Robert99 · « **Reply #5911 on:** March 12, 2021, 11:22:19 PM »

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I have seen no evidence that any debris that ends up on the east side of the I-5 bridge would not end up on Tena Bar. If you have that evidence I would very much like to read it. Also, I'm not an expert on human decomposition as you seem to be. Could you also provide evidence that a body loses buoyancy after six months of winter conditions? Perhaps you're right. I honestly don't know, so can you share your evidence?

Regarding, the islands, Government and Lemon Islands are uninhabited and are only accessible with a permit. I would also be doubtful that too many people would be tramping along the island in the middle of winter. Lastly, one could find numerous examples of bodies that went undiscovered in areas very similar to that stretch of river. I don't think it is beyond reason to suggest that Cooper and/or the money ended up in the brush and vegetation near the shore and were not seen or discovered.

If you do have evidence that demonstrates that I am wrong, please share it.

First, winter conditions only last for two or three months in the Portland area. I believe the temperature was well above freezing on the night Cooper jumped. The human body decomposes rather fast and the unopened parachutes and money bag would be saturated with water within a few days. It is unlikely that Cooper and the equipment he had with him would have any floatation capability within a week or two.

Do you have any evidence to support your claim that debris from the east side of the I-5 bridge automatically ends up on Tina Bar?

"I don't think it is beyond reason to suggest that Cooper and/or the money ended up in the brush and vegetation near the shore and were not seen or discovered." Thank you for supporting my idea that Cooper was a no-pull who landed very near Tina Bar, perhaps on Caterpillar Island. Or, are you going to still deny that possibility?

And again, do I need to start copyrighting my posts?

Chaucer · « **Reply #5912 on:** March 12, 2021, 11:31:39 PM »

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First, winter conditions only last for two or three months in the Portland area. I believe the temperature was well above freezing on the night Cooper jumped. The human body decomposes rather fast and the unopened parachutes and money bag would be saturated with water within a few days. It is unlikely that Cooper and the equipment he had with him would have any floatation capability within a week or two.

Still waiting on your evidence to support your statement that Cooper's body would not float after six months in those conditions.

Quote

Do you have any evidence to support your claim that debris from the east side of the I-5 bridge automatically ends up on Tina Bar?

No. I never claimed I did. You're the one who is adamant that it's not possible. If you have evidence to support your claim, please provide it. I'd love to review it.

Quote

"I don't think it is beyond reason to suggest that Cooper and/or the money ended up in the brush and vegetation near the shore and were not seen or discovered." Thank you for supporting my idea that Cooper was a no-pull who landed very near Tina Bar, perhaps on Caterpillar Island. Or, are you going to still deny that possibility?

You had me right up until Caterpillar Island. The flight path does not support a landing that far west. Otherwise, you're welcome?

Chaucer · « **Reply #5913 on:** March 13, 2021, 12:20:16 AM »

Here is a website of a group researching marine debris in the Lower Columbia. They have an interactive map at the bottom that documents locations of where debris was found. Unfortunately, they did not map the area north of Caterpillar Island.

However, from the area near Caterpillar Island ALL debris that was observed was found on the EAST side of the river. This would seem to debunk the idea that debris would be found on the west bank of the river if it came from east of the I-5 bridge.

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I'm going to reach out to this group and see if I can get anyone to discuss the debris flow at that part of the river.

Robert99 · « **Reply #5914 on:** March 13, 2021, 01:09:23 AM »

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Here is a website of a group researching marine debris in the Lower Columbia. They have an interactive map at the bottom that documents locations of where debris was found. Unfortunately, they did not map the area north of Caterpillar Island.

However, from the area near Caterpillar Island ALL debris that was observed was found on the EAST side of the river. This would seem to debunk the idea that debris would be found on the west bank of the river if it came from east of the I-5 bridge.

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I'm going to reach out to this group and see if I can get anyone to discuss the debris flow at that part of the river.

Your statement above does not state where the Tina Bar debris came from. Also, a visit to Tina Bar might change your mind about how much debris there is in the first place. And how much of that debris came from the Tina Bar fishermen.

georger · « **Reply #5915 on:** March 13, 2021, 01:23:07 AM »

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Here is a website of a group researching marine debris in the Lower Columbia. They have an interactive map at the bottom that documents locations of where debris was found. Unfortunately, they did not map the area north of Caterpillar Island.

However, from the area near Caterpillar Island ALL debris that was observed was found on the EAST side of the river. This would seem to debunk the idea that debris would be found on the west bank of the river if it came from east of the I-5 bridge.

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I'm going to reach out to this group and see if I can get anyone to discuss the debris flow at that part of the river.

I asked salvage people years ago if there was some primary location or route that supplied debris to Tina Bar. They laughed and said "no". Debris on Tina Bar comes from everywhere; mainly from the south.

People dont say much about the money itself and what it tells. Except for a few cuts, gouges, abrasions, ... and uniform peripheral decay around all of the bills, the money is in remarkable condition. Its a shame the evidence was broken up as a group by the Court. Those bills tell a story as a unit. Looks like they had an easy life in Nature when you consider the endless options for mishap. Other entities in Nature have a much smaller chance of survival! And a smooth ride from somewhere through several exchanges.

Chaucer · « **Reply #5916 on:** March 13, 2021, 01:23:44 AM »

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Here is a website of a group researching marine debris in the Lower Columbia. They have an interactive map at the bottom that documents locations of where debris was found. Unfortunately, they did not map the area north of Caterpillar Island.

However, from the area near Caterpillar Island ALL debris that was observed was found on the EAST side of the river. This would seem to debunk the idea that debris would be found on the west bank of the river if it came from east of the I-5 bridge.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

I'm going to reach out to this group and see if I can get anyone to discuss the debris flow at that part of the river.

Your statement above does not state where the Tina Bar debris came from. Also, a visit to Tina Bar might change your mind about how much debris there is in the first place. And how much of that debris came from the Tina Bar fishermen.

I’ll believe the experts before I believe in anecdotal evidence from a guy who doesn’t believe the Z340 cipher was solved and a group of private citizens caught the Golden State Killer.

Thanks though!

Robert99 · « **Reply #5917 on:** March 13, 2021, 01:42:56 AM »

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Here is a website of a group researching marine debris in the Lower Columbia. They have an interactive map at the bottom that documents locations of where debris was found. Unfortunately, they did not map the area north of Caterpillar Island.

However, from the area near Caterpillar Island ALL debris that was observed was found on the EAST side of the river. This would seem to debunk the idea that debris would be found on the west bank of the river if it came from east of the I-5 bridge.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

I'm going to reach out to this group and see if I can get anyone to discuss the debris flow at that part of the river.

Your statement above does not state where the Tina Bar debris came from. Also, a visit to Tina Bar might change your mind about how much debris there is in the first place. And how much of that debris came from the Tina Bar fishermen.
I’ll believe the experts before I believe in anecdotal evidence from a guy who doesn’t believe the Z340 cipher was solved and a group of private citizens caught the Golden State Killer.

Thanks though!

What anecdotal evidence are you referring to? Not only did you not solve the Z340 cipher you don't even know what constitutes that cipher. I didn't say a group of private citizens caught the GSK but I did say some private citizens helped determine who was the GSK.

Any other misrepresentations you want to make?

Chaucer · « **Reply #5918 on:** March 13, 2021, 02:12:58 AM »

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You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Here is a website of a group researching marine debris in the Lower Columbia. They have an interactive map at the bottom that documents locations of where debris was found. Unfortunately, they did not map the area north of Caterpillar Island.

However, from the area near Caterpillar Island ALL debris that was observed was found on the EAST side of the river. This would seem to debunk the idea that debris would be found on the west bank of the river if it came from east of the I-5 bridge.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

I'm going to reach out to this group and see if I can get anyone to discuss the debris flow at that part of the river.

Your statement above does not state where the Tina Bar debris came from. Also, a visit to Tina Bar might change your mind about how much debris there is in the first place. And how much of that debris came from the Tina Bar fishermen.
I’ll believe the experts before I believe in anecdotal evidence from a guy who doesn’t believe the Z340 cipher was solved and a group of private citizens caught the Golden State Killer.

Thanks though!

What anecdotal evidence are you referring to? Not only did you not solve the Z340 cipher you don't even know what constitutes that cipher. I didn't say a group of private citizens caught the GSK but I did say some private citizens helped determine who was the GSK.

Any other misrepresentations you want to make?

I never claimed that I solved the Z340. It was solved however- something you refuse to accept.

A “group of private citizens” had nothing to with the identification or capture of GSK.

Who’s talking about misrepresentations?

Still waiting for your evidence about Tena Bar...

georger · « **Reply #5919 on:** March 13, 2021, 04:01:55 AM »

If I understand Flyjack in his latest incarnation, FJ has several pieces of evidence.

1. 302s attached below

2. "Himmelsbach.. Money was given to Cooper strapped in 100's and bundled with rubber bands..
"There were ten thousand twenty dollar bills assembled in straps of a hundred bills to a strap and individual straps held together with rubber bands."

3. UPI story: “It’s all from one bundle,” said John Pringle, assistant special agent in charge of the Seattle FBI office. “We found more bits and pieces, nothing more.: Cooper had been given several "bundles" of money, the agent said.

From the above FJ leaps to his description of how the money was found, and how the Seafirst bank packed the money for Cooper - which is:

"We know Cooper was given the money in packets of 100, those packets rubber banded into bundles of a random number of PACKETS...
So, if the TBAR money arrived as three separate packets they had to be removed from the bundles they were in when given to Cooper prior to landing on TBAR.
Also, the rubber band frags attached to bills were not documented, there is no way to confirm they were only holding packets and not the bundle or a combination.
The FBI claimed the money was from one bundle and in the same order. Conclusion,,, it is NOT a fact that the 3 TBAR packets arrived separately and it is most likely that the 3 packets arrived rubber banded in a single bundle, as the rubber bands deteriorated the packets loosened and fell apart slightly."

Thus FJ's equation for the form the money was in when assembled and given to DB by Seafirst:

packet = a group of 100 bills , paper strapped
bundle = a group of packets , 3 packets 100 bills @, rubber banded

Caveat: FJ may have now dropped his paper strap demand - that is uncertain pending clarification by FJ.

FJ says again Agent Carr and the Seafirst Bank employee Carr talked to "got it wrong". Just a fact - no explanation. These people just got it wrong, but FJ has it right.

georger · « **Reply #5920 on:** March 13, 2021, 01:28:14 PM »

FLYJACK in capitol letters. Settle down. Compose yourself. We know you are a genius. Stop your tantrums! Read this care-full-y.

Theories require proof. Facts. There is no need for you to throw in your history of the world and your psychoanalysis of Georger!

WE ARE TRYING TO GET YOU TO STATE WHAT YOUR MONEY THEORY IS! What your facts are. All in logical order. IN LANGUAGE ANY HUMAN CAN UNDERSTAND!

Someone might like to test your money theory whatever it is.

You must first state what your theory is, what your supporting facts are, explain how it all connects together. Do this in something less than 500 posts spread out over four weeks.

Can you do that? Can you stop being crazy long enough to explain in layman's terms what your theory is in language anyone can understand? In language an 8 year old would understand.

THAT IS ALL THIS IS ABOUT.

* Until you can do that you have no theory at all! ** If anyone else understands what FJ is saying maybe they can translate for him ?

georger · « **Reply #5921 on:** March 13, 2021, 02:57:27 PM »

Dorwin reminds me to tell the forum that fragments at 2.5ft buried below the surface have to be explained, even if those fragments were originally part of the Ingram bundles found closer to the surface in a different position. Those fragments are part of the Tina Bar money story.

Dorwin says those fragments were not kicked into holes being dug by 'hapless workers'.

georger · « **Reply #5922 on:** March 13, 2021, 03:07:00 PM »

FLYJACK RESPONDS:

"" Why is this important...... Georger has really become irrelevant in the Cooper case.. his case knowledge is stale and stuck in 2011. His arguments display poor analysis. Cooper newbies confuse his arrogance with competence. I am using Georger as a foil to advance my argument and the Cooper case.

The conventional thinking has been that the TBAR money arrived as 3 separate "packets" which constrains how they could have arrived on TBAR.. In fact, that is an assumption, not a fact. The TBAR analysis has been constrained by an assumption which I argue is very unlikely. It is more likely that the money arrived as one single rubber banded bundle of a number of packets of 100 bills each and theories and analysis should be pursued with that in mind.

Georger may not realize it but his ego is restricting the Cooper investigation within a false paradigm. That explains why Georger and a few others have not advanced this case in a decade. Assumptions and errors elevated to fact and used to reject evidence is just poor analysis. Eric Ulis.. Robert99.. Georger.. ""

Here we go again. In 2010 FJ appeared at Dropzone and said the same thing about Jo Weber and asked the Mod to kick Jo off Dropzone, to enable him to work at DZ! The Mod refused and FJ left Dropzone in a tantrum, for years -

It's simple Flyjack: WHAT IS YOUR TINA BAR MONEY THEORY ? if you actually even have one!?

*Since when does the violin player stop the orchestra so he alone can 'Advance the Beethoven Performance!' Its CRAZY on its face.

EU · « **Reply #5923 on:** March 13, 2021, 03:19:50 PM »

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Dorwin reminds me to tell the forum that fragments at 2.5ft buried below the surface have to be explained, even if those fragments were originally part of the Ingram bundles found closer to the surface in a different position. Those fragments are part of the Tina Bar money story.

Dorwin says those fragments were not kicked into holes being dug by 'hapless workers'.

I just flat out think Dorwin is wrong.

We know the FBI did a sloppy job excavating based upon the photographic evidence.

We also know there weren't any 3 1/2' or deeper holes dug at the money find spot based upon the photographic evidence. And it stands to reason, if they dug a hole 2 1/2' deep and found some shards, they're not just going to stop digging there. Indeed, they would dig down at least another foot or two to see if there is anything else further down.

With that in mind, where are these 3 1/2' - 4 1/2' deep holes?

The more I learn about this case the sloppier I realize the FBI did their job. There's nothing personal in that statement, it's simply a matter of fact. The latest example appears to be regarding the veracity of the placard. Say what you will, the FBI and the County Sheriff disseminated bad information that is hard to explain.

Hell, even today the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login still incorrectly states that DBC demanded the ransom in twenty dollar bills.

georger · « **Reply #5924 on:** March 13, 2021, 03:26:31 PM »

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Dorwin reminds me to tell the forum that fragments at 2.5ft buried below the surface have to be explained, even if those fragments were originally part of the Ingram bundles found closer to the surface in a different position. Those fragments are part of the Tina Bar money story.

Dorwin says those fragments were not kicked into holes being dug by 'hapless workers'.

I just flat out think Dorwin is wrong.

We know the FBI did a sloppy job excavating based upon the photographic evidence.

We also know there weren't any 3 1/2' or deeper holes dug at the money find spot based upon the photographic evidence. And it stands to reason, if they dug a hole 2 1/2' deep and found some shards, they're not just going to stop digging there. Indeed, they would dig down at least another foot or two to see if there is anything else further down.

With that in mind, where are these 3 1/2' - 4 1/2' deep holes?

The more I learn about this case the sloppier I realize the FBI did their job. There's nothing personal in that statement, it's simply a matter of fact. The latest example appears to be regarding the veracity of the placard. Say what you will, the FBI and the County Sheriff disseminated bad information that is hard to explain.

Hell, even today the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login still incorrectly states that DBC demanded the ransom in twenty dollar bills.

You're right. In the case of one hole being dug with a fragment found there is live video. The guy reaches down and moves sand away, and pulls out a fragment, and shows it to the reporter and the camera - live. See the video. As I recall the location and the digging are halfway between the Ingram site and the waterline ? See the video.

How did any frags get 2.5ft below the surface sand anywhere on that beach, while the Ingram bundles were just under the surface? Any money theory has to account for that.

That hole looks 2.5ft deep to me!

Poll

How did the money arrive on Tena Bar

Author Topic: Tena Bar Money Find (Read 1555280 times)

EU

Re: Tina Bar Money Find

Robert99

Re: Tina Bar Money Find

Chaucer

Re: Tina Bar Money Find

Chaucer

Re: Tina Bar Money Find

Robert99

Re: Tina Bar Money Find

georger

Re: Tina Bar Money Find

Chaucer

Re: Tina Bar Money Find

Robert99

Re: Tina Bar Money Find

Chaucer

Re: Tina Bar Money Find

georger

Re: Tina Bar Money Find

georger

Re: Tina Bar Money Find

georger

Re: Tina Bar Money Find

georger

Re: Tina Bar Money Find

EU

Re: Tina Bar Money Find

georger

Re: Tina Bar Money Find