Poll

How did the money arrive on Tena Bar

River Flooding
1 (5%)
Floated to it's resting spot via Columbia river
2 (10%)
Planted
6 (30%)
Dredge
11 (55%)
tossed in the river in a paper bag
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 17

Voting closed: August 16, 2016, 09:05:28 AM

Author Topic: Tena Bar Money Find  (Read 1358135 times)

georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #570 on: January 17, 2015, 05:09:21 PM »
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If I had to guess 1974.. highest flood stage, close to major flood. (of course missing most of '72)

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The Palmer report cited the Washougal as a possible source for the money at Tina Bar. And the flood of late 1978, after the severe drought of 1978, as the mechanism.

Richard Tosaw also thought Cooper had died in the jump, and thought the most likely explanation for the money on Tina Bar was "hydrological flow" but Tosaw went one step further and consulted his own hydrologist and 'salvage operators' who have worked the Columbia (from the Washougal to Tina Bar), for years. These people are all named in the Tosaw papers, and some of them were interviewed in newspaper reports of the day.

Tosaw's hydrologist said "No way!" on the Washougal hypothesis. Tosaw's salvage operators, who have detailed knowledge of every known piece of junk in the Columbia  especially in the vicinity of Portland-Vancouver, thought it unlikely that anything could have arrived from east of Portland then passed by Vancouver and Portland, and the Willamette confluence, and not been snagged along the way.

With those assumptions in mind, Tosaw decided several things: (a) Cooper and his bag of money must have landed no closer to Portland than the west-side of Portland which avoids major snag-points salvage operators had identified, and (b) that Cooper and his money bag might still be snagged on the bottom, and Tosaw and his divers launched explorations of the bottom of the Columbia at known snag points working their way toward Tina Bar. Tosaw was convinced that Cooper had to have landed somewhere on the west side of Portland or even further west, in order for any Cooper money to have wound up on Tina Bar.

Tosaw believed there was a good chance Cooper had landed in the Columbia itself.

 
« Last Edit: January 17, 2015, 05:16:02 PM by georger »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #571 on: January 17, 2015, 05:33:42 PM »
Quote
Tosaw believed there was a good chance Cooper had landed in the Columbia itself.

I follow the same ideals as Tosaw. it could be just that easy that he went into the Columbia, or at least the money did.
 

georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #572 on: January 17, 2015, 06:09:04 PM »
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Tosaw believed there was a good chance Cooper had landed in the Columbia itself.

I follow the same ideals as Tosaw. it could be just that easy that he went into the Columbia, or at least the money did.

Well, the fact is, Tosaw and his divers found "nothing" in all of their excursions searching the bottom, catch points, basins, cul-de-sacs, and wing dams - with a proven link to the DB Cooper hijacking. So his Theory remains just that - a theory.

I see the Dredging Theory and Tosaw's Theory as close cousins. They both seem improbable to me.

There is something about the improbability of any Cooper money winding up on Tina Bar at all, that has always struck me as off-the-charts requiring a serious explanation. It had to be an inside job!  :D :D

« Last Edit: January 17, 2015, 06:10:19 PM by georger »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #573 on: January 17, 2015, 06:11:08 PM »
what year was he diving, and searching the bottom?
 

georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #574 on: January 17, 2015, 06:51:23 PM »
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what year was he diving, and searching the bottom?

I will dig up the articles and dates.

I strongly feel the money arrived from somewhere close by. By natural means. And the process that brought it covered it up also. Date? Tests might still be able to determine that. But the flight path does not support such a theory. We all know that. That is the curse the Tina Bar money lives under_

The only thing I can think of to fall back on is Sluggo's "missing link"   [funny]. Sluggo had a full appreciation of the problem very early ...  :)



   
« Last Edit: January 17, 2015, 06:53:43 PM by georger »
 

Offline andrade1812

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #575 on: January 17, 2015, 09:31:39 PM »
Didn't Tosaw continue his search until close to his death? Something like twenty years? I read an article somewhere about him, he was in his 80's at the time.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #576 on: January 17, 2015, 10:05:37 PM »
He might of been out there with the boat dragging the bottom. I'm just wondering after dredging in 74, what would be left to find?
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #577 on: January 17, 2015, 10:13:04 PM »
Tosaw has another theory to explain the mystery. He contends, after extensive research, that the soil in which the Ingram boy found the packets of money was dredged from the shipping lanes of the river by the Army Corps of Engineers as part of a commercial navigation project.

Over breakfast coffee, Tosaw showed off the list of dredging projects the corps had provided him and said only one of the projects, in 1974, could have deposited debris on the proper spot on the river bank.

As a result, he says with the fervor of a true believer, ``theoretically, Cooper has to be within 3,000 feet of where the money was found,`` because that was the length of the transfer line the engineers used in their dredging. So Tosaw`s solution is to complete a computer-aided scan of the Columbia River shipping channel.

If the computer, designed to help bass fishermen, finds anything unusual, Tosaw says he and a friend will use grappling hooks to bring it to the surface.

`With the water so cold down there, I expect we`ll find Cooper and his parachute pretty well preserved down there,`` Tosaw said. ``He should be in A- 1 shape, and the money should be in good shape, too.``

Though Tosaw spent a little time on the river last fall looking for Cooper, he says he didn`t think through his plan well enough to realize the corps would have dredged only in the shipping lanes.

As a result, he`s ready for a concentrated search of a 120,000-square-foot section of the shipping lane.

Tosaw says he got involved in the case as a ``hobby.``

But Ralph Himmelsbach, the former FBI agent who headed the search for Cooper, says Tosaw is more interested in pursuing publicity.

Himmelsbach, who works for Oregon`s Department of Justice, said, ``Let`s just say that (Tosaw`s) sort of beating a dead horse.``

But Himmelsbach isn`t surprised that speculation about Cooper`s whereabouts continues, almost 15 years later.

``Let`s face it,`` he said. ``This is one guy who tweaked Uncle Sam`s nose and got away with it.``

After his years of labor on the project, Tosaw hopes to regain some of the missing money.

But as he walked along the acres of river bottom that have been dredged into massive 30-foot-high hills, Tosaw was asked, finally, why the rest of the money couldn`t have been shoveled into one of the other earthen piles lining the riverside instead of being left out in the river`s channel.

``Gee,`` he said. ``I hadn`t thought of that one.``

 

Robert99

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #578 on: January 18, 2015, 12:25:15 AM »
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Tosaw has another theory to explain the mystery. He contends, after extensive research, that the soil in which the Ingram boy found the packets of money was dredged from the shipping lanes of the river by the Army Corps of Engineers as part of a commercial navigation project.

Over breakfast coffee, Tosaw showed off the list of dredging projects the corps had provided him and said only one of the projects, in 1974, could have deposited debris on the proper spot on the river bank.

As a result, he says with the fervor of a true believer, ``theoretically, Cooper has to be within 3,000 feet of where the money was found,`` because that was the length of the transfer line the engineers used in their dredging. So Tosaw`s solution is to complete a computer-aided scan of the Columbia River shipping channel.

If the computer, designed to help bass fishermen, finds anything unusual, Tosaw says he and a friend will use grappling hooks to bring it to the surface.

`With the water so cold down there, I expect we`ll find Cooper and his parachute pretty well preserved down there,`` Tosaw said. ``He should be in A- 1 shape, and the money should be in good shape, too.``

Though Tosaw spent a little time on the river last fall looking for Cooper, he says he didn`t think through his plan well enough to realize the corps would have dredged only in the shipping lanes.

As a result, he`s ready for a concentrated search of a 120,000-square-foot section of the shipping lane.

Tosaw says he got involved in the case as a ``hobby.``

But Ralph Himmelsbach, the former FBI agent who headed the search for Cooper, says Tosaw is more interested in pursuing publicity.

Himmelsbach, who works for Oregon`s Department of Justice, said, ``Let`s just say that (Tosaw`s) sort of beating a dead horse.``

But Himmelsbach isn`t surprised that speculation about Cooper`s whereabouts continues, almost 15 years later.

``Let`s face it,`` he said. ``This is one guy who tweaked Uncle Sam`s nose and got away with it.``

After his years of labor on the project, Tosaw hopes to regain some of the missing money.

But as he walked along the acres of river bottom that have been dredged into massive 30-foot-high hills, Tosaw was asked, finally, why the rest of the money couldn`t have been shoveled into one of the other earthen piles lining the riverside instead of being left out in the river`s channel.

``Gee,`` he said. ``I hadn`t thought of that one.``

Shutter, what is the source of the above?  Is this from a newspaper of magazine article?
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #579 on: January 18, 2015, 12:28:50 AM »
Article from 1985.....


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georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #580 on: January 18, 2015, 01:06:40 AM »
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Didn't Tosaw continue his search until close to his death? Something like twenty years? I read an article somewhere about him, he was in his 80's at the time.

It was the discovery of the money at Tina Bar and information he received about the Palmer Report that triggered Tosaw's interest in exploring areas of the Columbia, in the vicinity of where the 1974 dredging had occurred. He wrote his book in '84. He encountered Janet at a book signing in '85 and her story may have consolidated his interest in exploring the Columbia. Over time he established relationships with several salvage operators and divers who began a series of explorations, sometimes on their own, beginning in '86 and lasting clear to 2005, 2008...
Tosaw died in 2009.
 
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #581 on: January 18, 2015, 01:25:21 AM »
I'm reading up on Ckret. found an interesting one about Brian....

Quote
When I talked to Brian he said the money was found in an area he could tell at some recent point had been covered by water. He said all of the debris was swept into one area, which is where he found the money.
 

georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #582 on: January 18, 2015, 01:52:12 AM »
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I'm reading up on Ckret. found an interesting one about Brian....

Quote
When I talked to Brian he said the money was found in an area he could tell at some recent point had been covered by water. He said all of the debris was swept into one area, which is where he found the money.

Pretty good observation for an eight year old... 38 years later. I wonder if he told Tom or me!
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #583 on: January 18, 2015, 01:54:10 AM »
Sounds like he's adding to it, but doesn't realize it. we often hear more to the story years later. even from first hand knowledge.
 

georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #584 on: January 18, 2015, 01:58:29 AM »
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Sounds like he's adding to it, but doesn't realize it. we often hear more to the story years later. even from first hand knowledge.

Fame and fortune do bring back vivid memories of one's surroundings?  Of course there are hundreds of FBI photos of the scene as found ... many of which I presume Tom has seen. Tom doesn't say on his website all the debris was washed to the area where Ingram found the money ... maybe that is an oversight on Tom's part?

 ;) ;)
« Last Edit: January 18, 2015, 02:03:11 AM by georger »