Poll

How did the money arrive on Tena Bar

River Flooding
1 (5%)
Floated to it's resting spot via Columbia river
2 (10%)
Planted
6 (30%)
Dredge
11 (55%)
tossed in the river in a paper bag
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 17

Voting closed: August 16, 2016, 09:05:28 AM

Author Topic: Tena Bar Money Find  (Read 1558783 times)

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #5100 on: August 17, 2020, 04:15:39 PM »
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Congratulations Mr.Kaye (and any others involved) on your diatom findings and recognition associated with it!!!    I am forever indebted, thank you sir.   Yes, there are still other "stories" of how the money got to it's location where it was found. (I believe someone asked that at one time recently)   Mr. Kaye, your TK1 is kind of close. As I said before, I wish they would have searched a little further inland.

The area behind the location is active and about 90-95% open space...
« Last Edit: August 17, 2020, 04:17:05 PM by Shutter »
 

Offline EU

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #5101 on: August 17, 2020, 04:23:45 PM »
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If the money doesn't float how did it get from the bottom of the river to the top especially if you use the tideline as the reason it was found there? all the debris in the background likely floats...

A long hourly test could help..put a pack of bills on the shoreline just before the tide comes in. you would have to attach it somehow and see if it would lodge itself at the high tide line..also put one in place when the tide starts to go down? possibly using light fishing string..

Fly, you are showing the samething's I posted in 2016..the curve in the tree's have been shown numerous times over the years. the point here was convincing the location Tom provided was incorrect..things on the bottom of the river for periods of time would get covered with the build up of sand that causes them to constantly dredge. spring starts in March, not February. the money was suspended weeks, months or years. it can self bury on the beach and not in the river? lots of factors involved with hydraulics and movement...we would see lots of things on the shore that came from the bottom that was man made..

I also believe Palmer thinks the money floats..he states "just like driftwood"

Quote
Actually he posted two vids, one seen before

Both are on this site and found by me...

Yes, exactly the configuration of trees you used  in 016.

What I would like to know is when and how were the Brian photos taken at or near the find location, with that leaning tree hind ?

FJ's photos - the news vid still of the beach is great!

Once again, the trees noted are not correct.

Specifically, the leaning tree is not the second red dot from the top, rather it is the third red dot from the top. In other words, the money find spot is due south, maybe 10 feet, from the second red dot from the top.

Also, the money find spot is approximately 40 feet from the edge of the small gravel road due east of the money find spot. The decline of the beach toward the river starts about 10 feet from the edge of the road I'm referring to.Therefore, the money find spot is approximately 3/8ths
the way to the edge of the river from the start of the decline.

During that distance the elevation drops approximately 15 feet. Meaning the elevation from the top of the beach (approximately 10 feet west of the edge of the small gravel road) drops approximately 5 feet. Thereby, leaving another approximately 10 feet to drop to the water's edge--again under normal river levels.

Now, two other things that people are not mentioning:

1) The photos from 1980 are taken AFTER the beach has eroded. In other words, in 1971 the elevation of the money find spot is likely one foot or so higher than 1980.

2) The water level of the Columbia fluctuates a small amount throughout the day--not by 10 feet. After all, if the river regularly rose to the money find spot, why didn't it impact any of the FBI digging or trenching the week they were on site?

Finally, you can clearly see the tide line in the footage of Dr. Palmer--who is not standing by the money find spot--it is on his left very near the water's edge. Look for the discolored sand.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2020, 04:25:57 PM by EU »
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #5102 on: August 17, 2020, 04:27:35 PM »
I think you are mixing up his photo's with references..
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #5103 on: August 17, 2020, 04:35:26 PM »
Pic below...multiple angled tree's...
« Last Edit: August 17, 2020, 04:36:39 PM by Shutter »
 

Offline EU

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #5104 on: August 17, 2020, 04:36:40 PM »
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Pic below...

What happened to the pic on the left which is now gray?
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

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Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #5105 on: August 17, 2020, 04:48:51 PM »
That's how I copied it from G's post..the other pic was separate?
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #5106 on: August 17, 2020, 05:45:52 PM »
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If the money doesn't float how did it get from the bottom of the river to the top especially if you use the tideline as the reason it was found there? all the debris in the background likely floats...

A long hourly test could help..put a pack of bills on the shoreline just before the tide comes in. you would have to attach it somehow and see if it would lodge itself at the high tide line..also put one in place when the tide starts to go down? possibly using light fishing string..

Fly, you are showing the samething's I posted in 2016..the curve in the tree's have been shown numerous times over the years. the point here was convincing the location Tom provided was incorrect..things on the bottom of the river for periods of time would get covered with the build up of sand that causes them to constantly dredge. spring starts in March, not February. the money was suspended weeks, months or years. it can self bury on the beach and not in the river? lots of factors involved with hydraulics and movement...we would see lots of things on the shore that came from the bottom that was man made..

I also believe Palmer thinks the money floats..he states "just like driftwood"

Quote
Actually he posted two vids, one seen before

Both are on this site and found by me...

Yes, exactly the configuration of trees you used  in 016.

What I would like to know is when and how were the Brian photos taken at or near the find location, with that leaning tree hind ?

FJ's photos - the news vid still of the beach is great!

Once again, the trees noted are not correct.

Specifically, the leaning tree is not the second red dot from the top, rather it is the third red dot from the top. In other words, the money find spot is due south, maybe 10 feet, from the second red dot from the top.

Also, the money find spot is approximately 40 feet from the edge of the small gravel road due east of the money find spot. The decline of the beach toward the river starts about 10 feet from the edge of the road I'm referring to.Therefore, the money find spot is approximately 3/8ths
the way to the edge of the river from the start of the decline.

During that distance the elevation drops approximately 15 feet. Meaning the elevation from the top of the beach (approximately 10 feet west of the edge of the small gravel road) drops approximately 5 feet. Thereby, leaving another approximately 10 feet to drop to the water's edge--again under normal river levels.

Now, two other things that people are not mentioning:

1) The photos from 1980 are taken AFTER the beach has eroded. In other words, in 1971 the elevation of the money find spot is likely one foot or so higher than 1980.

2) The water level of the Columbia fluctuates a small amount throughout the day--not by 10 feet. After all, if the river regularly rose to the money find spot, why didn't it impact any of the FBI digging or trenching the week they were on site?

Finally, you can clearly see the tide line in the footage of Dr. Palmer--who is not standing by the money find spot--it is on his left very near the water's edge. Look for the discolored sand.

The only information that I have seen on the tide in the Tina Bar area is that is was only 1 or 2 feet at most.  I have only been at Tina Bar during daylight hours but I didn't notice any tidal changes.  The high tide mark was about 6 feet or so horizontally from the water's edge and less than a foot vertically. 
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #5107 on: August 17, 2020, 06:17:32 PM »
Tides change every 6 hours and 12.5 minutes..
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #5108 on: August 17, 2020, 07:03:26 PM »
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Tides change every 6 hours and 12.5 minutes..

I have been there longer than that on a couple of occasions and didn't notice any change in the river level.  It seems to me that the tidal influence is very minor and can basically be ignored.  The "high tide line" is probably primarily caused by wind wave action or boats passing close to the shore and creating waves.
 

Offline EU

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #5109 on: August 17, 2020, 07:21:54 PM »
Anecdotally, in all the times I've been to Tena Bar--through out different times of the year--the extent of water level range I've personally witnessed amounts to about 3 or 4 inches.
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Offline 18C

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #5110 on: August 17, 2020, 08:29:32 PM »
It's probably been suggested before - virtually every possible scenario has - but what if DBC, having survived the jump, buried ALL the money but not all in the same location?

DBC then returns at a later date to the multiple burial locations and proceeds to dig up the money. BUT....he can't find that particular bundle at Tina Bar...the stuff the Ingrams found.

I guess the arguments against such a scenario are:
How did DBC get to that location if the fight path theories hold up?
Why were the bands on the bills still intact some 8 years later?
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #5111 on: August 17, 2020, 10:58:20 PM »
Cute, but interesting, 18.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #5112 on: August 17, 2020, 11:07:38 PM »
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Tides change every 6 hours and 12.5 minutes..

I have been there longer than that on a couple of occasions and didn't notice any change in the river level.  It seems to me that the tidal influence is very minor and can basically be ignored.  The "high tide line" is probably primarily caused by wind wave action or boats passing close to the shore and creating waves.


You can certainly tell the difference in tides on a river and the ocean. you can see the difference in the tide with the waterline with debris and the helicopter view when the tide is low. you need a picture of high and low tides..
« Last Edit: August 17, 2020, 11:13:40 PM by Shutter »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #5113 on: August 17, 2020, 11:27:07 PM »
R99, based on the shadows in the photo from the helicopter can you estimate what time it is? you could then find out where the tide cycle is at that point..
« Last Edit: August 17, 2020, 11:29:22 PM by Shutter »
 

Offline georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #5114 on: August 18, 2020, 12:35:53 AM »
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The picture with Brian as a kid appears to be just after the FBI left..the sand is built up from not being leveled back down from what I recall..plus snow is visible if not mistaken?

It almost has to be that way ... no agent interviewed remembers Brian being there, or Harold either during the actual excavation.

Here is one shot of  EU's coordinates .

Georger, the Fazio Brothers sand operation is south of the buildings and the entrance road.  The area that you have labeled was actually used to grow feed for the cows.

the label is google maps's label... not mine   ;)  I merely did a screen shot of the Google map returned ...  contact google maps for a correction ...   
« Last Edit: August 18, 2020, 12:42:09 AM by georger »