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R99,

Based on Tom’s conclusions here, I think it’s even more likely that Cooper did not survive the jump, don’t you agree? Unless there are some bizarre circumstances, I don’t know why Cooper would allow himself to be separated from $6000 if he landed safely. I think it also puts his landing spot (either dead or alive) much closer to the Columbia. What do you think?

Agreed.  As Shutter points out above, I have previously posted any number of times over the past decade that the only realistic way for the money to get to the location where it was found was for Cooper to be a no-pull and to land either on the east side of Caterpillar Island or across the channel on the east side of the Columbia River.  And I believe that the available evidence supports the idea that the airliner passed Tina Bar basically along the west shore of the Columbia River.

The Northwest Lower River Road is built on top of a levee and anything on the east side of that levee is going to end up in Vancouver Lake and then go down Lake River and enter the Columbia River about 15-20 miles downstream (to the north) of Tina Bar.  Anything on the west side of the levee at Caterpillar Island is going to end up in the Columbia River channel.

This channel flow will basically form a boundary layer between the main river flow and the east bank of the Columbia, and in the relatively short distance from the island to the money find location will prevent anything from the main river flow washing up at Tina Bar.

The money was found several feet above the Columbia River water level (TK says about 3 meters) and this supports the idea that it was not deposited by the flow from the main channel.  And also that it was deposited during a flood or unusually high water event.

As TK has pointed out, money sinks to the bottom within a short time and stays there.  Consequently, the money had to be traveling downhill when it stopped at the location where it was found.  And it had to still be in the bag when it reached that point since the bill packets were actually touching as I understand it.

So if Cooper impacted as a no-pull on Caterpillar Island on November 24, 1971, his body would become disarticulated in the several months until the next high water event.  Cooper presumably had on a raincoat under the parachute harness (he would be an absolute fool to have discarded his raincoat) which, along with the money bag being tied to his body (per Tina's observation) and not the parachute harness, would keep most of the body together.  The head, arms, and legs would probably easily separate.  The end result would be that the body, parachutes, and money bag would not have any floating capability after being exposed to the Portland rains for several months.

But eventually a high water event, such as the Spring mountain snow runoff, would get high enough to reach and dislodge Cooper's remains.  From that point the remains would ALWAYS be moving downhill and underwater until they reached the point where the money was found lodged.  The money came out of the bag and the rest of the remains went downstream.

Some of the remains may have been sufficiently secured to remain at Cooper's original impact point.  There are briar patches in that area that are man eaters.  Just about anything that goes in to those briars is going to stay there.  So it may be possible that something remains on Caterpillar Island from the Cooper impact.

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R99,

Based on Tom’s conclusions here, I think it’s even more likely that Cooper did not survive the jump, don’t you agree? Unless there are some bizarre circumstances, I don’t know why Cooper would allow himself to be separated from $6000 if he landed safely. I think it also puts his landing spot (either dead or alive) much closer to the Columbia. What do you think?

Agreed.  As Shutter points out above, I have previously posted any number of times over the past decade that the only realistic way for the money to get to the location where it was found was for Cooper to be a no-pull and to land either on the east side of Caterpillar Island or across the channel on the east side of the Columbia River.  And I believe that the available evidence supports the idea that the airliner passed Tina Bar basically along the west shore of the Columbia River.

The Northwest Lower River Road is built on top of a levee and anything on the east side of that levee is going to end up in Vancouver Lake and then go down Lake River and enter the Columbia River about 15-20 miles downstream (to the north) of Tina Bar.  Anything on the west side of the levee at Caterpillar Island is going to end up in the Columbia River channel.

This channel flow will basically form a boundary layer between the main river flow and the east bank of the Columbia, and in the relatively short distance from the island to the money find location will prevent anything from the main river flow washing up at Tina Bar.

The money was found several feet above the Columbia River water level (TK says about 3 meters) and this supports the idea that it was not deposited by the flow from the main channel.  And also that it was deposited during a flood or unusually high water event.

As TK has pointed out, money sinks to the bottom within a short time and stays there.  Consequently, the money had to be traveling downhill when it stopped at the location where it was found.  And it had to still be in the bag when it reached that point since the bill packets were actually touching as I understand it.

So if Cooper impacted as a no-pull on Caterpillar Island on November 24, 1971, his body would become disarticulated in the several months until the next high water event.  Cooper presumably had on a raincoat under the parachute harness (he would be an absolute fool to have discarded his raincoat) which, along with the money bag being tied to his body (per Tina's observation) and not the parachute harness, would keep most of the body together.  The head, arms, and legs would probably easily separate.  The end result would be that the body, parachutes, and money bag would not have any floating capability after being exposed to the Portland rains for several months.

But eventually a high water event, such as the Spring mountain snow runoff, would get high enough to reach and dislodge Cooper's remains.  From that point the remains would ALWAYS be moving downhill and underwater until they reached the point where the money was found lodged.  The money came out of the bag and the rest of the remains went downstream.

Some of the remains may have been sufficiently secured to remain at Cooper's original impact point.  There are briar patches in that area that are man eaters.  Just about anything that goes in to those briars is going to stay there.  So it may be possible that something remains on Caterpillar Island from the Cooper impact.

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R99,

Based on Tom’s conclusions here, I think it’s even more likely that Cooper did not survive the jump, don’t you agree? Unless there are some bizarre circumstances, I don’t know why Cooper would allow himself to be separated from $6000 if he landed safely. I think it also puts his landing spot (either dead or alive) much closer to the Columbia. What do you think?

Agreed.  As Shutter points out above, I have previously posted any number of times over the past decade that the only realistic way for the money to get to the location where it was found was for Cooper to be a no-pull and to land either on the east side of Caterpillar Island or across the channel on the east side of the Columbia River.  And I believe that the available evidence supports the idea that the airliner passed Tina Bar basically along the west shore of the Columbia River.

The Northwest Lower River Road is built on top of a levee and anything on the east side of that levee is going to end up in Vancouver Lake and then go down Lake River and enter the Columbia River about 15-20 miles downstream (to the north) of Tina Bar.  Anything on the west side of the levee at Caterpillar Island is going to end up in the Columbia River channel.

This channel flow will basically form a boundary layer between the main river flow and the east bank of the Columbia, and in the relatively short distance from the island to the money find location will prevent anything from the main river flow washing up at Tina Bar.

The money was found several feet above the Columbia River water level (TK says about 3 meters) and this supports the idea that it was not deposited by the flow from the main channel.  And also that it was deposited during a flood or unusually high water event.

As TK has pointed out, money sinks to the bottom within a short time and stays there.  Consequently, the money had to be traveling downhill when it stopped at the location where it was found.  And it had to still be in the bag when it reached that point since the bill packets were actually touching as I understand it.

So if Cooper impacted as a no-pull on Caterpillar Island on November 24, 1971, his body would become disarticulated in the several months until the next high water event.  Cooper presumably had on a raincoat under the parachute harness (he would be an absolute fool to have discarded his raincoat) which, along with the money bag being tied to his body (per Tina's observation) and not the parachute harness, would keep most of the body together.  The head, arms, and legs would probably easily separate.  The end result would be that the body, parachutes, and money bag would not have any floating capability after being exposed to the Portland rains for several months.

But eventually a high water event, such as the Spring mountain snow runoff, would get high enough to reach and dislodge Cooper's remains.  From that point the remains would ALWAYS be moving downhill and underwater until they reached the point where the money was found lodged.  The money came out of the bag and the rest of the remains went downstream.

Some of the remains may have been sufficiently secured to remain at Cooper's original impact point.  There are briar patches in that area that are man eaters.  Just about anything that goes in to those briars is going to stay there.  So it may be possible that something remains on Caterpillar Island from the Cooper impact.

R99,

I think that is a realistic, reasonable, fact-based scenario, and it does fit with TK’s analysis. The problem of course is the flight path. If the flight path is more toward Battle Ground and less toward Woodland, then it makes Cooper lawn darting into Caterpillar Island impossible. Obviously, we have discussed your views of the western flight path extensively, and i don’t think it’s necessary to re-litigate. If you can prove the western flight path conclusively then you have a virtually air tight theory.

The problem is that the FBI, the Air Force, and many others think you’re wrong.

I would like to know if a landing further downstream could be possible given Tom’s constraints. It would require the money to be in the water longer and a mechanism to bring it up out of the water by about 3 meters. Not easy.

And here we are:  trying to put the square peg of the flight path into the round hole of the money find.

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I look forward to reading Tom and Mark's paper concerning the diatoms. I intend on reading it very carefully within the next day.

I'm going to be looking for one thing in particular. That is, the evidence that is put forward to substantiate that the diatoms found on 377's twenty could not have migrated down through the sand at all during a high water event.

After all, it is simply inconceivable to me that three separate stacked packets of Cooper's ransom somehow ended up 20 miles from the FBI drop zone, several miles upstream, and 50 feet from the water's edge, yet they were not buried by a human being.

Also, if--and I underscore "if"--Tom's case proves strong that the money could have only been exposed to the Columbia in June, then we need to seriously consider that June was when the money was retrieved--not buried--at Tena Bar. More to the point, is it possible that DBC finally worked his way back to Tena Bar in June 1972--coincidentally one of only two high-water events between 1971 and 1980--and retrieved the majority of the ransom, however, mistakenly left three bundles behind? Could the bundles have been exposed to the Columbia during the retrieval process? I don't know.

Cheers!

Tom’s paper explains why the money soaked in the Columbia would have more and different diatoms than money buried immediately in the sand without direct contact with water.

Also, for Cooper to have retrieved the money in June would require him to soak the money in the water of the Columbia for an extended period of time prior - weeks, perhaps months. That means he buried the money, then stuck at least $6000 grand in the Columbia, then buried again. Then dug it up. How does that make any sense?