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What is a tide line?

One of the more fascinating aspect of Cooper World is the fact that certain terms or circumstances that I, or others, take for granted are not accepted by others. Such is the case with the term "tide line."

To me, a tide line is a distinct line of detritus on a beach that runs parallel to the prevailing water line. Today, I realized that my experience in my former life of being a commercial beachcleaner in New York - and a kid who lived 11 miles from the water and was at the beach at least 2-3 times a week - has shaped what I consider to be a real tide line.

What I have observed at T-Bar - with Robert and many others over the years - is perhaps best described as a "debris line." These deposits are linear for sure, but only run about 10-50 feet, and have always appeared to me as the wash-up of river debris - twigs, junk, grassy stuff, flotables, etc. - from the highest level of water volume that day (or night). In fact, most days that I have been on the Columbia, in particular T-Bar, I have not seen any organized debris line of any kind - tidal or otherwise.

What I do see is that, in general, the debris actually clumps around catchment areas, such as tree and bushes, upended stumps and roots, wing dams, rocks, etc.

Bruce, At Tina Bar there is a smooth and hard packed area that the waves and tides wash on a daily basis.  This area extends from about 5 to 10 feet from the lowest level of the water depending on the slope of the beach.  Then the beach immediately transitions into a rough surface of dry and loose sand which is very difficult to walk in.  That transition point is what I call the tide line.  And I am sure that you have seen it and walked on it.

Above you say: "And the daily tidal variation is between one and two feet at Tina Bar."

Please translate this into an actual line or zone on the excavation photo ... people can see.

Where does one and two feet fall in the space A-D ?

Sooner or later all of these factoids, numbers, and opinions you keep tossing out have to translate into something a common ordinary person can understand, see, and evaluate!

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What is a tide line?

One of the more fascinating aspect of Cooper World is the fact that certain terms or circumstances that I, or others, take for granted are not accepted by others. Such is the case with the term "tide line."

To me, a tide line is a distinct line of detritus on a beach that runs parallel to the prevailing water line. Today, I realized that my experience in my former life of being a commercial beachcleaner in New York - and a kid who lived 11 miles from the water and was at the beach at least 2-3 times a week - has shaped what I consider to be a real tide line.

What I have observed at T-Bar - with Robert and many others over the years - is perhaps best described as a "debris line." These deposits are linear for sure, but only run about 10-50 feet, and have always appeared to me as the wash-up of river debris - twigs, junk, grassy stuff, flotables, etc. - from the highest level of water volume that day (or night). In fact, most days that I have been on the Columbia, in particular T-Bar, I have not seen any organized debris line of any kind - tidal or otherwise.

What I do see is that, in general, the debris actually clumps around catchment areas, such as tree and bushes, upended stumps and roots, wing dams, rocks, etc.

Bruce, At Tina Bar there is a smooth and hard packed area that the waves and tides wash on a daily basis.  This area extends from about 5 to 10 feet from the lowest level of the water depending on the slope of the beach.  Then the beach immediately transitions into a rough surface of dry and loose sand which is very difficult to walk in.  That transition point is what I call the tide line.  And I am sure that you have seen it and walked on it.

Where does YOUR tide line fall on this 1980 photo?  Lines A - D. 

*Anyone in the whole Universe may answer!

Other things being equal, the tide line would be the eastern edge of the dark area immediately adjacent to the water.

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What is a tide line?

One of the more fascinating aspect of Cooper World is the fact that certain terms or circumstances that I, or others, take for granted are not accepted by others. Such is the case with the term "tide line."

To me, a tide line is a distinct line of detritus on a beach that runs parallel to the prevailing water line. Today, I realized that my experience in my former life of being a commercial beachcleaner in New York - and a kid who lived 11 miles from the water and was at the beach at least 2-3 times a week - has shaped what I consider to be a real tide line.

What I have observed at T-Bar - with Robert and many others over the years - is perhaps best described as a "debris line." These deposits are linear for sure, but only run about 10-50 feet, and have always appeared to me as the wash-up of river debris - twigs, junk, grassy stuff, flotables, etc. - from the highest level of water volume that day (or night). In fact, most days that I have been on the Columbia, in particular T-Bar, I have not seen any organized debris line of any kind - tidal or otherwise.

What I do see is that, in general, the debris actually clumps around catchment areas, such as tree and bushes, upended stumps and roots, wing dams, rocks, etc.

Bruce, At Tina Bar there is a smooth and hard packed area that the waves and tides wash on a daily basis.  This area extends from about 5 to 10 feet from the lowest level of the water depending on the slope of the beach.  Then the beach immediately transitions into a rough surface of dry and loose sand which is very difficult to walk in.  That transition point is what I call the tide line.  And I am sure that you have seen it and walked on it.

Where does YOUR tide line fall on this 1980 photo?  Lines A - D. 

*Anyone in the whole Universe may answer!

Other things being equal, the tide line would be the eastern edge of the dark area immediately adjacent to the water.

How does that relate to A-D ?  There is a reason for asking this ... has to do with diatom ecology and species distribution vs tidal zones..

** A new regional dataset comprising 425 intertidal diatom taxa from 175 samples from 11 ecologically diverse Oregon and Washington estuaries illustrates the importance of compiling a large modern dataset from a range of sites. Cluster analyses and detrended correspondence analysis of the diatom assemblages identify distinct vertical zones within supratidal, intertidal and subtidal environments at six of the 11 study sites, but the abundance of some of the most common species varies widely among and within sites. Canonical correspondence analysis of the regional dataset shows relationships between diatom species and tidal exposure, salinity and substratum (grain size and organic content). Correspondence analyses of local datasets show higher values of explained variation than the analysis of the combined regional dataset. Our results emphasize that studies of the autecology of diatom species require many samples from a range of modern environments to adequately characterize species-environment relationships.    You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

I don't have the slightest idea what the lines have to do with your question.

new question for Tom Kaye -

in the formation shown below what length of time does this formation represent, if you have an idea? seconds, minutes, hours, days? Notice the second stalk from left is twisted and broken for some reason.

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I don't have the slightest idea what the lines have to do with your question.

I guess the lines are too complex for someone to understand.

How would you like the area on this photo divided? Cirles. ellipses, squiggles ...? This is where things always break down because you dont have any computer graphic skills. I guess we are screwed and communication is impossible.
Have a nice whatever . communication is impossible.

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I don't have the slightest idea what the lines have to do with your question.

I guess the lines are too complex for someone to understand.

How would you like the area on this photo divided? Cirles. ellipses, squiggles ...? This is where things always break down because you dont have any computer graphic skills. I guess we are screwed and communication is impossible.
Have a nice whatever . communication is impossible.

Okay, you are just saying that you don't know what those lines mean either.  But you did figure out how to draw straight lines so your intellectual capabilities are developing.

personal attack filed =

Perhaps both of you should stop responding to each other?

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Perhaps both of you should stop responding to each other?

I tried that - even left for almost two months. It didnt work.  There will be no discussion of case points tonight, by me.

The TRUTH IS, this is a campaign being conducted by R99 and Ulis (maybe others) and nobody is going to stop it. R99 has even branched out to Dropzone where he is attacking FLYJACK ... its a campaign to wipe out all competition.

It's a no win situation for everyone! 

Current victims this week alone are: Kermit, Bruce Smith, Nicky, FLYJACK, and another whose name I forget. The body count just goes higher and higher..... Tom Kaye is on their last; they just havent geared up for that yet! 

I came here tonight to discuss diatoms with material prepared but have been diverted by R99 crap!

Get your diatom material from Kaye, Ulis, and R99. Im done.
 
Goodnight.