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Cooper's body, had he landed in the Columbia, would not have floated downstream very far. I talked to a rescue and body recovery diver who works on the Mississippi River in the Twin Cities of MN, and he looked up the water temperatures on that night. He told me, with water temperatures near 10 degrees Celsius, Cooper's body would have sunk to the bottom. When his crew does body recovery in such conditions, their search area is a product of water depth alone, not current. Cooper's body would have stayed at the bottom, around the point of entry, until water temperature rose in the spring. From there, Cooper's body would "pop" to the surface and start downstream with the river flow.

If the water temperature on the evening of the hijacking was 10 degrees Celsius, which translates to 50 degrees Fahrenheit, then it was warmer than the 44 degrees Fahrenheit air temperature that Portland International Airport reported at 8:00 PM that evening.

In determining if Cooper and his equipment would immediately sink, you must also consider the volumes of water displaced by the parachutes, the money bag, and anything else he had attached to his body.  While I have run these numbers years ago, I am not going to bother to look them up now.  So I leave that to you.  And just remember that it will take some time for the parachutes, money bag, etc., to get saturated and they will be displacing a cubic foot of water or so in the meantime, and that provides quite a bit of buoyancy.

Unless Cooper's body was snagged on something on the bottom of the river, it is going to be moving downstream.  There is absolutely no way that it will remain stationary otherwise.

The diver said Cooper would sink like a stone, and that the parachute would do very little. I don't think we talked about the money bag, I might contact him again. My assumption is the money bag would come loose at impact.

How does the diver think the money got on Tina Bar?

Dredge. He's not a Cooperite like the rest of us, however he read parts of my book before it was published. He believes Tosaw's theory, that Cooper entered the Columbia when 305 passed over the river on the traditional FP

R99--

"Sink like a stone" was obviously hyperbole.

I respect the math calculations, but I have to trust a guy who fishes bodies out of the Mississippi river on a weekly basis. The Mississippi has a greater elevation change at the Twin Cities than the Columbia does at Portland, so current should be more of a factor there (and not to mention parkas and heavy clothing Minnesotans wear in winter), but my guy says it doesn't make much of a difference. Their search patterns are a product of the depth of the water. Even if we allow for a ton of error, that still puts Cooper's body at the bottom of the river within a few hundred feet of where it entered the water.

If what you are saying above is correct, then Tosaw and everyone else should have been searching for Cooper in the Columbia River and east of Portland.  And if Cooper entered the Columbia east of Portland, he or whatever came loose from him would have been in the shipping channel on the Oregon side of the river when it went by the Tina Bar area.  The Columbia makes almost a 90 degree turn to the north on the west side of Portland and anything floating (or on the bottom) of the river is going to end up in that shipping channel after making that turn.  Also, keep in mind that the shipping channel between Portland and the Pacific was dredged after the Mount St. Helen's explosion.

Cooper's body would have been at the bottom of the river until spring 1972, then it would have "popped" and flowed out with the river and found itself in the Pacific Ocean...

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Cooper's body, had he landed in the Columbia, would not have floated downstream very far. I talked to a rescue and body recovery diver who works on the Mississippi River in the Twin Cities of MN, and he looked up the water temperatures on that night. He told me, with water temperatures near 10 degrees Celsius, Cooper's body would have sunk to the bottom. When his crew does body recovery in such conditions, their search area is a product of water depth alone, not current. Cooper's body would have stayed at the bottom, around the point of entry, until water temperature rose in the spring. From there, Cooper's body would "pop" to the surface and start downstream with the river flow.

If the water temperature on the evening of the hijacking was 10 degrees Celsius, which translates to 50 degrees Fahrenheit, then it was warmer than the 44 degrees Fahrenheit air temperature that Portland International Airport reported at 8:00 PM that evening.

In determining if Cooper and his equipment would immediately sink, you must also consider the volumes of water displaced by the parachutes, the money bag, and anything else he had attached to his body.  While I have run these numbers years ago, I am not going to bother to look them up now.  So I leave that to you.  And just remember that it will take some time for the parachutes, money bag, etc., to get saturated and they will be displacing a cubic foot of water or so in the meantime, and that provides quite a bit of buoyancy.

Unless Cooper's body was snagged on something on the bottom of the river, it is going to be moving downstream.  There is absolutely no way that it will remain stationary otherwise.

The diver said Cooper would sink like a stone, and that the parachute would do very little. I don't think we talked about the money bag, I might contact him again. My assumption is the money bag would come loose at impact.

How does the diver think the money got on Tina Bar?

Dredge. He's not a Cooperite like the rest of us, however he read parts of my book before it was published. He believes Tosaw's theory, that Cooper entered the Columbia when 305 passed over the river on the traditional FP

R99--

"Sink like a stone" was obviously hyperbole.

I respect the math calculations, but I have to trust a guy who fishes bodies out of the Mississippi river on a weekly basis. The Mississippi has a greater elevation change at the Twin Cities than the Columbia does at Portland, so current should be more of a factor there (and not to mention parkas and heavy clothing Minnesotans wear in winter), but my guy says it doesn't make much of a difference. Their search patterns are a product of the depth of the water. Even if we allow for a ton of error, that still puts Cooper's body at the bottom of the river within a few hundred feet of where it entered the water.

If what you are saying above is correct, then Tosaw and everyone else should have been searching for Cooper in the Columbia River and east of Portland.  And if Cooper entered the Columbia east of Portland, he or whatever came loose from him would have been in the shipping channel on the Oregon side of the river when it went by the Tina Bar area.  The Columbia makes almost a 90 degree turn to the north on the west side of Portland and anything floating (or on the bottom) of the river is going to end up in that shipping channel after making that turn.  Also, keep in mind that the shipping channel between Portland and the Pacific was dredged after the Mount St. Helen's explosion.

Why not ask the money where it came from and how, and when?

Everything else is speculation. 

I'll bet 377 had already done that.

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Let’s not get carried away about temperatures in the Mighty Columbia ! Temperatures vary wildly depending upon locations and time of year. I’ve been water skiing and fishing the river most of my life ! In the Vancouver area the river warms to the low 70’s and in January the temperature can dip into the 30’s. I checked a chart and November would probably be mid 40’s. On June 30,2015, a temperature of 71 was recorded at Bonneville Dam and temperatures are of course warmer in Portland area.

When I was about 10 years old, I did a lot of swimming in the Wenatchee River.  This was at a point about three miles before the Wenatchee emptied into the Columbia River at Wenatchee, WA.  Even in mid-summer, the Wenatchee was extremely cold and basically just melted ice.  The Great Amazon and I discussed this at some length a number of years ago on DropZone.  She was also familiar with that area.

My guess is that probably everything downstream from about the The Dalles is essentially recently melted snow.  There are about a dozen dams on the Columbia and its tributaries between the Coulee and Bonneville dams.  Basically, what starts at the Coulee dam is probably going to be diverted for agricultural purposes long before it gets past the Wenatchee area.

If the water temperature measured 71 degrees at Bonneville Dam, I would suggest that they get their thermometer checked.

Whatever the source of the heat, the waters of the Columbia are delightful to swim in during the summer.

I have swum downstream of The Dalles in July and it was fine. I have swum at Tina Bar in August, and it was sublime. At T-Bar on that day, the air temp was 105 degrees F, btw... so maybe the toasty-woasty water temps may be due to processes less dramatic than subterranean volcanic disturbances....

In fact, Robert, the last time I was at T-Bar with you in 2016 and it was a hot day. Remember? I so wanted to dive in and go for a swim while the filming was on-going, but the best that I could do was put my fingers into the water. It felt wonderful.

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Whatever the source of the heat, the waters of the Columbia are delightful to swim in during the summer.

I have swum downstream of The Dalles in July and it was fine. I have swum at Tina Bar in August, and it was sublime. At T-Bar on that day, the air temp was 105 degrees F, btw... so maybe the toasty-woasty water temps may be due to processes less dramatic than subterranean volcanic disturbances....

In fact, Robert, the last time I was at T-Bar with you in 2016 and it was a hot day. Remember? I so wanted to dive in and go for a swim while the filming was on-going, but the best that I could do was put my fingers into the water. It felt wonderful.

That 2016 day was about 90 degrees and I didn't stick my finger or anything else in the water.  I guess I was distracted by the duck that insisted on following me around.

Would you happen to have a link to the water temperatures at Bonneville Dam and specifically where those temperatures were measured?  I can't seem to find them on the Internet.

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Cooper's body, had he landed in the Columbia, would not have floated downstream very far. I talked to a rescue and body recovery diver who works on the Mississippi River in the Twin Cities of MN, and he looked up the water temperatures on that night. He told me, with water temperatures near 10 degrees Celsius, Cooper's body would have sunk to the bottom. When his crew does body recovery in such conditions, their search area is a product of water depth alone, not current. Cooper's body would have stayed at the bottom, around the point of entry, until water temperature rose in the spring. From there, Cooper's body would "pop" to the surface and start downstream with the river flow.

If the water temperature on the evening of the hijacking was 10 degrees Celsius, which translates to 50 degrees Fahrenheit, then it was warmer than the 44 degrees Fahrenheit air temperature that Portland International Airport reported at 8:00 PM that evening.

In determining if Cooper and his equipment would immediately sink, you must also consider the volumes of water displaced by the parachutes, the money bag, and anything else he had attached to his body.  While I have run these numbers years ago, I am not going to bother to look them up now.  So I leave that to you.  And just remember that it will take some time for the parachutes, money bag, etc., to get saturated and they will be displacing a cubic foot of water or so in the meantime, and that provides quite a bit of buoyancy.

Unless Cooper's body was snagged on something on the bottom of the river, it is going to be moving downstream.  There is absolutely no way that it will remain stationary otherwise.

The diver said Cooper would sink like a stone, and that the parachute would do very little. I don't think we talked about the money bag, I might contact him again. My assumption is the money bag would come loose at impact.

How does the diver think the money got on Tina Bar?

Dredge. He's not a Cooperite like the rest of us, however he read parts of my book before it was published. He believes Tosaw's theory, that Cooper entered the Columbia when 305 passed over the river on the traditional FP

R99--

"Sink like a stone" was obviously hyperbole.

I respect the math calculations, but I have to trust a guy who fishes bodies out of the Mississippi river on a weekly basis. The Mississippi has a greater elevation change at the Twin Cities than the Columbia does at Portland, so current should be more of a factor there (and not to mention parkas and heavy clothing Minnesotans wear in winter), but my guy says it doesn't make much of a difference. Their search patterns are a product of the depth of the water. Even if we allow for a ton of error, that still puts Cooper's body at the bottom of the river within a few hundred feet of where it entered the water.

If what you are saying above is correct, then Tosaw and everyone else should have been searching for Cooper in the Columbia River and east of Portland.  And if Cooper entered the Columbia east of Portland, he or whatever came loose from him would have been in the shipping channel on the Oregon side of the river when it went by the Tina Bar area.  The Columbia makes almost a 90 degree turn to the north on the west side of Portland and anything floating (or on the bottom) of the river is going to end up in that shipping channel after making that turn.  Also, keep in mind that the shipping channel between Portland and the Pacific was dredged after the Mount St. Helen's explosion.

Why not ask the money where it came from and how, and when?

Everything else is speculation. 

I'll bet 377 had already done that.

Ive never heard him say he had his bill(s) tested ?  I have heard him say he was willing to have his bill tested.

[/b]

TK has my bill and has run some tests on it. I even gave him permission to do some destructive testing if it might help, hoping for as small a destroyed sample as possible. Science FIRST!

I'll leave it to Tom to report his results.

377