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Flim flam shuffle.

Why not just quote Jeremiah and Proverbs?

This isn't an election to win or lose by deceits and claims. Answer the questions put to you for a change!

This is ridiculous.   

* I agree with R99. How many "incarnations" are we dealing with here? This electioneering deception is as plain as the nose on your face. If others are too timid or sold out to state the obvious - that's their problemo. We dont need a King or a Prophet or a self appointed Cooperobergruppenführer spouting mush.

Ive got some news for you! You and Nicholson did not discovers of fire and the wheel!

""Her husband was convinced Cooper died in the leap, said Frances Scott. "He felt he jumped into Lake Merwin (Cowlitz County) and got tangled up in dead trees and died," she said."

** Wm Scott Aero Club talk, 1997:  "``There was a big reservoir down there with trees in it,'' Scott said. ..." He left us near Merwin Dam"... ``I just thought he went down there and got wrapped up in the trees.''

I get it...you believe in little money legs and little money shovels.

Cheers!

Oh, my!  Georger's Great Big Ego has been pricked and he is really pissed off!

Georger, why don't you just man up and come out of the bushes?  Your incarnations now apparently includes theologian as well as the previous ones of map expert, expert on relativity who taught Albert Einstein everything he knew on the subject, interviewer of everyone on the planet who may (or may not) have heard of the Cooper hijacking, what the flight crew should have known (presumably by ESP) about the credibility of the FAA's Chief Psychologist even if they had never heard of him, when the best proven laws of science (on Thermodynamics) don't apply to the Cooper hijacking, etc., etc.,.....

Georger, for your information, Himmelbach's  book states that Lake Merwin was searched, including by an improvised submarine, and nothing related to Cooper was found.  Also, according to an e-mail you sent me a number of years ago, you stated that you had talked to the crew of the helicopter that Himmelbach boarded and that they flew up to Woodland and then headed south, with no indication that they ever got east of that line.

Hm, I had forgotten about the Lake Merwin search. Being totally unfamiliar with the region, would a search of a swath of the Columbia have been at all feasible, and was any part of it searched? (I'm guessing it's too large a body to search, but may as well ask.)  I've often wondered if BR might have flown over bodies of water in his rage at Cooper, but again, he couldn't do that till Tina was safely in the cockpit, given the real possibility in their minds that Cooper would take her with him. He wasn't going to wear 4 chutes and he didn't cut them all up, either. Pure conjecture, of course, that he asked for 4 to give the impression he was taking at least one hostage so as to avoid having the chutes sabotaged or the pilots fly over the most hazardous terrain/bodies of water. And I do still find it quite the coincidence that the only part of the money that turned up did so in a marked, traversed area. I don't suggest a plant, simply that Coop COULD have temporarily stashed all or part of the money in a place he could easily find again and without attracting any particular notice. Think everyone can agree that the Tina/Tena Bar find and the flight path are the most befuddling aspects of the case. But the money find happened and there was a flight path, so the damn stuff got there somehow.

Another question, having zero dredge knowledge: what would be the effect on a dredge on encountering a body? Would it clog up the works in any way, or would the dredge just carry on, whistling a merry tune as the corpse turned to mulch?

As a matter of fact, if Cooper no-pulled the opportunity for deception did not exist once he stepped off the airstairs.

With this in mind, how is it that nothing was ever found (Tena Bar aside)? It was the cleanest of clean get-aways by accident?

Cooper's body, had he landed in the Columbia, would not have floated downstream very far. I talked to a rescue and body recovery diver who works on the Mississippi River in the Twin Cities of MN, and he looked up the water temperatures on that night. He told me, with water temperatures near 10 degrees Celsius, Cooper's body would have sunk to the bottom. When his crew does body recovery in such conditions, their search area is a product of water depth alone, not current. Cooper's body would have stayed at the bottom, around the point of entry, until water temperature rose in the spring. From there, Cooper's body would "pop" to the surface and start downstream with the river flow.

Good non biased post. The FBI (Portland) sought similar information relevant to their area of the Columbia. Its not in 302s but it is in personal notes and in meetings notes. I wonder if Colbert's FOIA request covers notes etc? Himmelsbach made a concerted effort to 'get familiar with the Columbia and how it works'. He wanted to know where bodies go and how they act in the Columbia, in different parts of the river. He consulted experts.   

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Flim flam shuffle.

Why not just quote Jeremiah and Proverbs?

This isn't an election to win or lose by deceits and claims. Answer the questions put to you for a change!

This is ridiculous.   

* I agree with R99. How many "incarnations" are we dealing with here? This electioneering deception is as plain as the nose on your face. If others are too timid or sold out to state the obvious - that's their problemo. We dont need a King or a Prophet or a self appointed Cooperobergruppenführer spouting mush.

Ive got some news for you! You and Nicholson did not discovers of fire and the wheel!

""Her husband was convinced Cooper died in the leap, said Frances Scott. "He felt he jumped into Lake Merwin (Cowlitz County) and got tangled up in dead trees and died," she said."

** Wm Scott Aero Club talk, 1997:  "``There was a big reservoir down there with trees in it,'' Scott said. ..." He left us near Merwin Dam"... ``I just thought he went down there and got wrapped up in the trees.''

I get it...you believe in little money legs and little money shovels.

Cheers!

Oh, my!  Georger's Great Big Ego has been pricked and he is really pissed off!

Georger, why don't you just man up and come out of the bushes?  Your incarnations now apparently includes theologian as well as the previous ones of map expert, expert on relativity who taught Albert Einstein everything he knew on the subject, interviewer of everyone on the planet who may (or may not) have heard of the Cooper hijacking, what the flight crew should have known (presumably by ESP) about the credibility of the FAA's Chief Psychologist even if they had never heard of him, when the best proven laws of science (on Thermodynamics) don't apply to the Cooper hijacking, etc., etc.,.....

Georger, for your information, Himmelbach's  book states that Lake Merwin was searched, including by an improvised submarine, and nothing related to Cooper was found.  Also, according to an e-mail you sent me a number of years ago, you stated that you had talked to the crew of the helicopter that Himmelbach boarded and that they flew up to Woodland and then headed south, with no indication that they ever got east of that line.

Hm, I had forgotten about the Lake Merwin search. Being totally unfamiliar with the region, would a search of a swath of the Columbia have been at all feasible, and was any part of it searched? (I'm guessing it's too large a body to search, but may as well ask.)  I've often wondered if BR might have flown over bodies of water in his rage at Cooper, but again, he couldn't do that till Tina was safely in the cockpit, given the real possibility in their minds that Cooper would take her with him. He wasn't going to wear 4 chutes and he didn't cut them all up, either. Pure conjecture, of course, that he asked for 4 to give the impression he was taking at least one hostage so as to avoid having the chutes sabotaged or the pilots fly over the most hazardous terrain/bodies of water. And I do still find it quite the coincidence that the only part of the money that turned up did so in a marked, traversed area. I don't suggest a plant, simply that Coop COULD have temporarily stashed all or part of the money in a place he could easily find again and without attracting any particular notice. Think everyone can agree that the Tina/Tena Bar find and the flight path are the most befuddling aspects of the case. But the money find happened and there was a flight path, so the damn stuff got there somehow.

Another question, having zero dredge knowledge: what would be the effect on a dredge on encountering a body? Would it clog up the works in any way, or would the dredge just carry on, whistling a merry tune as the corpse turned to mulch?

The airliner took off from SEATAC at 7:36 PM PST and Tina was sent to the cockpit about 5 to 10 minutes thereafter.  Tina was probably in the cockpit with the rest of the crew by about 7:45 PM and this is about 25 minutes before the estimated jump time of about 8:10 to 8:12 PM.

If Cooper landed in the Columbia River in the vicinity of the Portland International Airport either as a no-pull or with an open parachute and drowned, then he would probably have retained enough buoyancy for several hours and that would be enough time for his body to float downstream and past Tina Bar before daylight.  This suggests to me that Cooper didn't actually land in water but that he was a no-pull and landed within a relatively few feet of the Columbia River itself and then was washed downstream with the damaged money bag depositing the packets at Tina Bar during a high water event such as the 1972 spring run off.

If the airliner bypassed Portland on the west side, which I consider a certainty, then it would have flown straight down the Columbia River for several miles as it passed Tina Bar (the river runs just a couple of degrees east of north in the Tina Bar area).  If the airliner was over the western edge of the Columbia River when Cooper jumped, and if he was a no-pull, the strong southwest wind would have deposited him on the eastern shore of the river.

I'll defer to 377 on the dredging matters.

The Fazios said the money came up with the last high tide, because, they pointed out, it was right on the high tide line. 

The other big problem with the No-Pull Theory is that the timing simply doesn't add up. The jet could not have made it to a point south (upstream) from Tena Bar by 8:10-8:13.

Cooper's body, had he landed in the Columbia, would not have floated downstream very far. I talked to a rescue and body recovery diver who works on the Mississippi River in the Twin Cities of MN, and he looked up the water temperatures on that night. He told me, with water temperatures near 10 degrees Celsius, Cooper's body would have sunk to the bottom. When his crew does body recovery in such conditions, their search area is a product of water depth alone, not current. Cooper's body would have stayed at the bottom, around the point of entry, until water temperature rose in the spring. From there, Cooper's body would "pop" to the surface and start downstream with the river flow.

If the water temperature on the evening of the hijacking was 10 degrees Celsius, which translates to 50 degrees Fahrenheit, then it was warmer than the 44 degrees Fahrenheit air temperature that Portland International Airport reported at 8:00 PM that evening.

In determining if Cooper and his equipment would immediately sink, you must also consider the volumes of water displaced by the parachutes, the money bag, and anything else he had attached to his body.  While I have run these numbers years ago, I am not going to bother to look them up now.  So I leave that to you.  And just remember that it will take some time for the parachutes, money bag, etc., to get saturated and they will be displacing a cubic foot of water or so in the meantime, and that provides quite a bit of buoyancy.

Unless Cooper's body was snagged on something on the bottom of the river, it is going to be moving downstream.  There is absolutely no way that it will remain stationary otherwise.

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Cooper's body, had he landed in the Columbia, would not have floated downstream very far. I talked to a rescue and body recovery diver who works on the Mississippi River in the Twin Cities of MN, and he looked up the water temperatures on that night. He told me, with water temperatures near 10 degrees Celsius, Cooper's body would have sunk to the bottom. When his crew does body recovery in such conditions, their search area is a product of water depth alone, not current. Cooper's body would have stayed at the bottom, around the point of entry, until water temperature rose in the spring. From there, Cooper's body would "pop" to the surface and start downstream with the river flow.

If the water temperature on the evening of the hijacking was 10 degrees Celsius, which translates to 50 degrees Fahrenheit, then it was warmer than the 44 degrees Fahrenheit air temperature that Portland International Airport reported at 8:00 PM that evening.

In determining if Cooper and his equipment would immediately sink, you must also consider the volumes of water displaced by the parachutes, the money bag, and anything else he had attached to his body.  While I have run these numbers years ago, I am not going to bother to look them up now.  So I leave that to you.  And just remember that it will take some time for the parachutes, money bag, etc., to get saturated and they will be displacing a cubic foot of water or so in the meantime, and that provides quite a bit of buoyancy.

Unless Cooper's body was snagged on something on the bottom of the river, it is going to be moving downstream.  There is absolutely no way that it will remain stationary otherwise.

Where - in what area ? There is no hard evidence Cooper bailed into the Columbia at all. Or that he died anywhere. Area law enforcement working with the FBI that had data and examined it, didn't think Cooper had landed in the Columbia at all. Even if the pilots reported late and you extend the DZ south the closest you can get to the Columbia is in the Orchards area.   

Moreover, the Air Force and Transcript data at the time was being considered by a number of different people from a number of different points of view. 

This always seems to come down to a contest between YOU and your calculations (based on?) vs. other people who actually had data and were working the situation at the time.