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I forget what the 74 dredge pipe dimensions were - can you remember off hand?

If Fish make it through dredge pumps alive, then bundles of money could too, maybe even the bag or a piece of the bag with bundles still inside.

The following (in blue) is directly from Tom Kaye's Citizen Sleuths site:

The dredge used in the 1974 operation was described in the FBI transcripts as having "a 24 inch pipe with wiper bar inside the pipe". Further discussion in the transcript describes "an auger" and speculates that a 16x16x4 inch package would be torn apart when transported through the pipe. This is a reasonable view given the power and violent action of dredging.

Thanks Eric. I wonder where Tom got the "16x16x4 inch package" referring to the money?  Is he saying the money was given to Cooper as a 16x16x4 inch package in a bank bag? Or is "16x16x4 inch package" just an estimate of size if you stacked the money, but not even relevant to the dredge issue ?   

I’m going to make an argument for the Tena Bar money being buried on purpose by Cooper.

The ransom measured 11” X 12” X 6 ½“ and was delivered in an open-top canvas bank bag of about the same size. This means that the bank bag was essentially filled to the top with the ransom. With this in mind, how could the top of the ransom be secured? If the bank bag was just a few inches taller than the cash inside there would not be enough excess bank bag to properly cinch the top of the bag thereby ensuring that the ransom wouldn’t be lost once Cooper jumped.

The genuine reserve was left onboard of the jet albeit in a cannibalized state. Cooper had cut out several feet of shroud lines to secure the ransom.

The dummy reserve left with Cooper out the back of the jet. Remember, neither of the reserves could be attached to either main parachute because they did not have “D” rings. This means that Cooper took the dummy reserve for another reason.

It is very important to understand that the reserves are not packed in a canister that can function as a bag. In fact, the canvas canister that housed both of the reserves unfolds and can be laid flat almost like a canvas towel (you can see this on Tom Kaye’s Citizen Sleuths website). This means that it would not make sense for Cooper to remove the ransom from the bank bag—which is actually a bag—and attempt to “wrap it” in a reserve canister. Rather, Cooper would have attempted to wrap the entire bank bag with the dummy reserve canister and then likely continue to roll that up with the shroud lines and ultimately the canopy. Finally, he would have used the shroud lines that he cannibalized from the genuine reserve to completely secure the bundle of ransom and dummy reserve.

Simply put, the reason Cooper took the dummy reserve with him was because he used it to wrap up and secure the bank bag chock full of money. After all, how else could he properly secure the ransom?

This is important for a few reasons.

First, it explains why Cooper took the dummy reserve with him. He did this to secure the ransom.

Second, it seems unlikely that the ransom would have dislodged from this bundle even if Cooper no-pulled—especially if he landed in the Columbia.

Finally, it means that the packets of cash found on Tena Bar had to have been extracted from the ransom/dummy reserve bundle before they were buried. This is because the bank bag, dummy reserve canister, shroud lines and nylon canopy would not have dissolved by the time the money was found.

In short, I surmise that when Cooper landed, he un-wrapped the bank bag full of cash from the dummy reserve and buried the bank bag with the ransom in it—probably laying the bag in the hole sideways. Then at a later date, Cooper returned to retrieve the bank bag full of the ransom at which time three packets of the cash simply fell out of the bag when it was unearthed—probably at night laying on its side—and were simply reburied when the hole was filled in. Then, eight years later, beach erosion unearthed the packets and the rest is history.

That theory does not explain the shards found at Tena Bar. In my opinion (whatever that's worth, lol), the shards found at Tena Bar put to rest any theory about the money being planted or dropped there. My thought is that the money and shards came from a dredge and I've heard no theory that makes me question that.

Yes , this has been debated at length. Simply put, there weren't any shards buried anywhere other than the immediate area where the money was found.

This has been confirmed by Richard Fazio and his brother. Also, TV news footage from Tena Bar clearly shows where a piece or two was discovered which is where the original money was found.

That is not to say that a few small pieces weren't found on the tide line which I would expect. But I'm not sure about this because Brian Ingram himself said the family looked for more money the rest of the day and found nothing at all.

Finally, the totality of small pieces recovered by the FBI has been kept in two small plastic boxes which are shown on TK's site.

Nothing that has been found disproves my theory.

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That theory does not explain the shards found at Tena Bar. In my opinion (whatever that's worth, lol), the shards found at Tena Bar put to rest any theory about the money being planted or dropped there. My thought is that the money and shards came from a dredge and I've heard no theory that makes me question that.

Dredge theory also has a problem..

If the packets go through, how do they end up together.. in a container. If they were in a container how do the shards get distributed via dredge.

Cooper stuffing the bank bag in the chute container makes sense, has anybody checked if it would all fit? Maybe some was in his pockets?

but, from there it is a big leap to a burial. IMO, there are other means without moving the flight path.

It doesn't have to "fit" because the dummy reserve canister is not a satchel. It's actually a flat canvas piece that folds over the ransom, sort of like wrapping a Christmas present with wrapping paper. If the canvas canister is a little too small that's not a problem because Cooper would continue to wrap the bank bag with the shroud lines and parachute canopy into one bundle. He would then use the shroud lines he cut from the other reserve to wrap around and secure the bundle.

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That theory does not explain the shards found at Tena Bar. In my opinion (whatever that's worth, lol), the shards found at Tena Bar put to rest any theory about the money being planted or dropped there. My thought is that the money and shards came from a dredge and I've heard no theory that makes me question that.

Yes , this has been debated at length. Simply put, there weren't any shards buried anywhere other than the immediate area where the money was found.

This has been confirmed by Richard Fazio and his brother. Also, TV news footage from Tena Bar clearly shows where a piece or two was discovered which is where the original money was found.

That is not to say that a few small pieces weren't found on the tide line which I would expect. But I'm not sure about this because Brian Ingram himself said the family looked for more money the rest of the day and found nothing at all.

Finally, the totality of small pieces recovered by the FBI has been kept in two small plastic boxes which are shown on TK's site.

Nothing that has been found disproves my theory.

According to Georger, those two boxes contain the fragmented money-dust that collected in various evidence envelopes over the years. I have not been able to corroborate that yet, but if it's true, we need to find another way to determine/estimate the amount of fragmented currency collected at the dig.

Actually, do you have a source for that info, Georger?

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... the totality of small pieces recovered by the FBI has been kept in two small plastic boxes which are shown on TK's site....

I'm not so sure on the "totality" of the shard recovery. The KATU video clearly shows a two-three inch fragment, such as described by Dorwin, who said they found multiple pieces of this size. Yet, those types of fragments are not in the plastic containers photographed by TK and the CS.

That tells me that there is a second repository for the shards. Could be Himmelsbach's basement for all I know, but the itsy-bitsy pieces in the containers is not all of what was found at T-Bar.

Also, the statements of Richard and Al Fazio have to be weighted by the circumstances they have told me. Al was late to the party since he was at a cattle auction. He did not arrive at the beach dig until long after it was under way. I don't know when Richard arrived. So, it is possible that the feds were digging for hours, maybe even a day before the Fazios were present and involved.

Richard and Al were eating when the feds knocked on their door before they started digging. This is reported in an article in The Times (London). I know Richard was there the entire time. Not sure about Al.

The small pieces you're referring to--the largest being the size of a quarter or 50-cent piece--were secured with the larger pieces from the original money find. The small fragments--those found and those which were broken off from the original larger pieces--are what is displayed in the two plastic boxes.

I asked TK if the two plastic boxes contained the totality of the shards and fragments collected and he said yes.

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Lastly, I am not ready to believe that SA Mike McPheters is lying when he says that he found shards "on the tide line at shovel-depth" when he was digging up-beach from the original money find.

I would fully expect to find pieces at the tide line because erosion--by wave action--finally reached the packets. The packets--which are clearly missing their edges--had those pieces washed away by the wave action. Yes, these would settle near the tide line probably an inch or so deep depending upon the degree of wave agitation at the water's edge.

But, we have no model for the wave/tidal action/erosion active at T_Bar. All we have is people say it happens ... like some swore reverse flow from the Lewis River was involved. That turned out to be untrue.

But I have to tell you EU, you are a convincing spokesperson! Keep it up. I love it even if it isn't quite true or the whole explanation !     

I would fully expect to find pieces at the tide line because erosion--by wave action--finally reached the packets. The packets--which are clearly missing their edges--had those pieces washed away by the wave action. Yes, these would settle near the tide line probably an inch or so deep depending upon the degree of wave agitation at the water's edge.

McPheters was quite specific with me. He dug up pieces from the sand at a depth of about the length of a spade shovel's blade length. About 8-12 inches down. Not at the surface, and not an inch or two beneath the surface, but down in the sand. Presumably it was buried by "tidal" action in the past and buried deeply.

Or the location was coincidental to the "tide" line of the day. Take your pick, I suppose.

McPheters is still alive and living in Moses Lake. However, he hung up on me the last time I called, so I assume that he has come to realize that his statements about money shards have become critical to the understanding of the T-Bar find, and thus are controversial. As we have come to learn, most FBI retirees shun controversy.

But not Dorwin, thank Gawd.