Poll

How did the money arrive on Tena Bar

River Flooding
1 (5%)
Floated to it's resting spot via Columbia river
2 (10%)
Planted
6 (30%)
Dredge
11 (55%)
tossed in the river in a paper bag
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 17

Voting closed: August 16, 2016, 09:05:28 AM

Author Topic: Tena Bar Money Find  (Read 1562541 times)

Offline EVickiW

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3435 on: June 20, 2017, 12:06:01 PM »
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I've always thought that if Cooper cratered he would have left behind a lot of pending/continuing financial obligations (rent, house payments, utility bills) that would have screamed "missing person" when he failed to pay.  The FBI was looking for that.

But what if Cooper planned to leave his home area for good after the skyjack and got all his affairs in order? What if he got ready to leave without any hanging obligations? Tell the neighbors you are relocating, sell the house, terminate the rental, shut off the utilities etc. Nobody would think missing person.

Would he have thought that far ahead?

377

Or Cooper was a wanted felon on the run.  :rofl:
You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.
 

Offline EVickiW

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3436 on: June 20, 2017, 12:08:30 PM »
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Thank you Marty.   And to expand on that, I don't think he died in the jump, without those things you mentioned, or grieving loved ones drawing attention.   Nobody falls off the face of the earth like that... If he did die in the jump, it is possible his kin were sublimely naive, enough so that it would overcome the desire of importance, being, that it was their relative who was Cooper. But I still think over time that still would have surfaced...
HOWEVER... A foreign Cooper, say, from Quebec, and the relatives could easily have been oblivious to the caper.  Having lived overseas for many years, I realized how insulated our media bubble is. Had he been foreign and perished, the lack of kin outspeak is very plausible.

Really?  Nobody falls off the face of the earth?  I disagree with that statement.
You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.
 

Offline dice

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3437 on: June 20, 2017, 02:33:38 PM »
Quote
Nobody falls off the face of the earth?  I disagree with that statement.

Vicki,  all your efforts here trying hard to find your missing dad, actually illustrates my point.  Loved ones would be looking for him. Your dad didnt disappear without kin looking for him.   The person may disappear but the ties would not. Thats what was my implication...
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Offline EVickiW

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3438 on: June 20, 2017, 02:49:08 PM »
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Quote
Nobody falls off the face of the earth?  I disagree with that statement.

Vicki,  all your efforts here trying hard to find your missing dad, actually illustrates my point.  Loved ones would be looking for him. Your dad didnt disappear without kin looking for him.   The person may disappear but the ties would not. Thats what was my implication...

However, Mel was already gone a few months prior to the hi-jacking. "Kin" (my mother, myself at age 7, my brother at age 5) WERE NOT looking for him. He was already gone and not coming home. I did not start perusing the internet until I was contacted by the US Marshal's in January 1996 and we appeared in Unsolved Mysteries. In 1996 the internet did not have the information it does today.

I could see your point in this scenario:  Say Gregory (a 6'0 tall, swarthy man with dark/black hair weighing about 180 lbs) was a family man working hard to support a family. He had a mother, father, wife and children and co-workers/friends. Bob had a "grudge" and hijacked the airplane and is now known as DB Cooper. He did make it home for Thanksgiving. Maybe he disappeared entirely. Those people he left behind would be looking and calling authorities after the hi-jacking.
You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.
 

georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3439 on: June 20, 2017, 03:36:14 PM »
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Quote
Nobody falls off the face of the earth?  I disagree with that statement.

Vicki,  all your efforts here trying hard to find your missing dad, actually illustrates my point.  Loved ones would be looking for him. Your dad didnt disappear without kin looking for him.   The person may disappear but the ties would not. Thats what was my implication...

However, Mel was already gone a few months prior to the hi-jacking. "Kin" (my mother, myself at age 7, my brother at age 5) WERE NOT looking for him. He was already gone and not coming home. I did not start perusing the internet until I was contacted by the US Marshal's in January 1996 and we appeared in Unsolved Mysteries. In 1996 the internet did not have the information it does today.

I could see your point in this scenario:  Say Gregory (a 6'0 tall, swarthy man with dark/black hair weighing about 180 lbs) was a family man working hard to support a family. He had a mother, father, wife and children and co-workers/friends. Bob had a "grudge" and hijacked the airplane and is now known as DB Cooper. He did make it home for Thanksgiving. Maybe he disappeared entirely. Those people he left behind would be looking and calling authorities after the hi-jacking.

all of this belongs in the Suspect Thread. This is the Tina Bar Money thread?

There's a basic contradiction about Mel being Cooper.  Mel was a forger. His whole modus operendum required cover - impersonation - operating in a false pose as a cover for conducting criminal activity. Then running and disappearing when exposed. I dont see him suddenly giving that up that cover in order to conduct one of the most conspicuous public crimes in history! It violates Mel's whole identity and modus operendum.

Looking for Mel Wilson in the DB Cooper hijacking case strikes me as looking for ice cream in the desert.

<edit> US Treasury etal were already looking for Mel. Every forger has a style - his forged money has a style. When the forger's money turns up somewhere the forger cannot be far behind in the same area. That can result in an easy trace. Being easily traceable is the last thing Cooper wanted. Mel and Cooper were completely different people.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2017, 04:43:50 PM by georger »
 

MeyerLouie

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3440 on: June 20, 2017, 05:05:28 PM »
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I've always thought that if Cooper cratered he would have left behind a lot of pending/continuing financial obligations (rent, house payments, utility bills) that would have screamed "missing person" when he failed to pay.  The FBI was looking for that.

But what if Cooper planned to leave his home area for good after the skyjack and got all his affairs in order? What if he got ready to leave without any hanging obligations? Tell the neighbors you are relocating, sell the house, terminate the rental, shut off the utilities etc. Nobody would think missing person.

Would he have thought that far ahead?

377

Or Cooper was a wanted felon on the run.  :rofl:

Not a stretch to think Cooper planned his escape as well as he planned the hijacking.  I am wondering why people question him being smart enough to do it all -- from PDX to freedom after the jump.  Fact is, he just might be smarter than all of us put together -- as we sit here 46 years later wondering who he was, how he did it, how the money was found, how he escaped, and so on, and so on....
 

Offline Kermit

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3441 on: June 20, 2017, 10:14:43 PM »

My wife is visiting her Sister and friends in Vegas and they are suffering from a heat wave where today's temp was 117 I guess ! Yuck ! Yesterday I was in Longview, Washington talking to a volunteer at Amtrak Station who gives speeches on U Tube at the Lions Club on local Railroad History in the area. He wasn't some nobody as he served on Longview City Council for about 10 years. Lots of interesting history and stories I got from him. I took a round trip from Longview to Portland and back. I wanted to see the entire route that the trains take across the bridges ! I can report that IF anyone encountered a train while walking across any of these 3 long bridges, it would be a little scary but certainly not life threatening. They are double track bridges but to not be seen would require a bit of acquabatics! Not for the faint of heart but then again neither is jumping from a plane in the dark.  Anyway it was a interesting day since my wife was having fun in Vegas. BTW. She sent me a photo of being DEALT a Royal Flush in Video Poker. Unfortunately she was playing nickels so it was only $200.
 

Offline MarkBennett

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3442 on: June 20, 2017, 11:06:53 PM »
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Quote
Nobody falls off the face of the earth?  I disagree with that statement.

Vicki,  all your efforts here trying hard to find your missing dad, actually illustrates my point.  Loved ones would be looking for him. Your dad didnt disappear without kin looking for him.   The person may disappear but the ties would not. Thats what was my implication...

However, Mel was already gone a few months prior to the hi-jacking. "Kin" (my mother, myself at age 7, my brother at age 5) WERE NOT looking for him. He was already gone and not coming home. I did not start perusing the internet until I was contacted by the US Marshal's in January 1996 and we appeared in Unsolved Mysteries. In 1996 the internet did not have the information it does today.

I could see your point in this scenario:  Say Gregory (a 6'0 tall, swarthy man with dark/black hair weighing about 180 lbs) was a family man working hard to support a family. He had a mother, father, wife and children and co-workers/friends. Bob had a "grudge" and hijacked the airplane and is now known as DB Cooper. He did make it home for Thanksgiving. Maybe he disappeared entirely. Those people he left behind would be looking and calling authorities after the hi-jacking.

all of this belongs in the Suspect Thread. This is the Tina Bar Money thread?

There's a basic contradiction about Mel being Cooper.  Mel was a forger. His whole modus operendum required cover - impersonation - operating in a false pose as a cover for conducting criminal activity. Then running and disappearing when exposed. I dont see him suddenly giving that up that cover in order to conduct one of the most conspicuous public crimes in history! It violates Mel's whole identity and modus operendum.

Looking for Mel Wilson in the DB Cooper hijacking case strikes me as looking for ice cream in the desert.

<edit> US Treasury etal were already looking for Mel. Every forger has a style - his forged money has a style. When the forger's money turns up somewhere the forger cannot be far behind in the same area. That can result in an easy trace. Being easily traceable is the last thing Cooper wanted. Mel and Cooper were completely different people.

Georger,

I see your point on counterfeiting.  It's a very stealth crime.  Not only does the perpetrator wish to stay hidden, if all goes to plan the crime itself would never be discovered.  Conversely, the hijacker gave a name, showed his face, talked to the flight attendants and made his crime clear for all to see.

On the other hand, you're only looking at only a small part of Mel Wilson's criminal history.  He had served time in San Quentin and consorted with career criminals.  He also had already vanished previously -- his family prior to Vicki's and even his mother never heard from him again after 1963.  A person who was confident is his ability to disappear completely is exactly the kind of person who might attempt a hijack with an evacuation.

If you were trying to profile a career criminal as Cooper, would you be looking at someone more like, say, an armed bank robber?
 

georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3443 on: June 20, 2017, 11:33:25 PM »
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Quote
Nobody falls off the face of the earth?  I disagree with that statement.

Vicki,  all your efforts here trying hard to find your missing dad, actually illustrates my point.  Loved ones would be looking for him. Your dad didnt disappear without kin looking for him.   The person may disappear but the ties would not. Thats what was my implication...

However, Mel was already gone a few months prior to the hi-jacking. "Kin" (my mother, myself at age 7, my brother at age 5) WERE NOT looking for him. He was already gone and not coming home. I did not start perusing the internet until I was contacted by the US Marshal's in January 1996 and we appeared in Unsolved Mysteries. In 1996 the internet did not have the information it does today.

I could see your point in this scenario:  Say Gregory (a 6'0 tall, swarthy man with dark/black hair weighing about 180 lbs) was a family man working hard to support a family. He had a mother, father, wife and children and co-workers/friends. Bob had a "grudge" and hijacked the airplane and is now known as DB Cooper. He did make it home for Thanksgiving. Maybe he disappeared entirely. Those people he left behind would be looking and calling authorities after the hi-jacking.

all of this belongs in the Suspect Thread. This is the Tina Bar Money thread?

There's a basic contradiction about Mel being Cooper.  Mel was a forger. His whole modus operendum required cover - impersonation - operating in a false pose as a cover for conducting criminal activity. Then running and disappearing when exposed. I dont see him suddenly giving that up that cover in order to conduct one of the most conspicuous public crimes in history! It violates Mel's whole identity and modus operendum.

Looking for Mel Wilson in the DB Cooper hijacking case strikes me as looking for ice cream in the desert.

<edit> US Treasury etal were already looking for Mel. Every forger has a style - his forged money has a style. When the forger's money turns up somewhere the forger cannot be far behind in the same area. That can result in an easy trace. Being easily traceable is the last thing Cooper wanted. Mel and Cooper were completely different people.

Georger,

I see your point on counterfeiting.  It's a very stealth crime.  Not only does the perpetrator wish to stay hidden, if all goes to plan the crime itself would never be discovered.  Conversely, the hijacker gave a name, showed his face, talked to the flight attendants and made his crime clear for all to see.

On the other hand, you're only looking at only a small part of Mel Wilson's criminal history.  He had served time in San Quentin and consorted with career criminals.  He also had already vanished previously -- his family prior to Vicki's and even his mother never heard from him again after 1963.  A person who was confident is his ability to disappear completely is exactly the kind of person who might attempt a hijack with an evacuation.

If you were trying to profile a career criminal as Cooper, would you be looking at someone more like, say, an armed bank robber?

I think Cooper was political - had a grudge. He very clearly had an emotional side but had it under control. He put it all out there (himself all out there) ... Cooper against the world. Had Nyrop not intervened I doubt Cooper or the plane would have ever left Seattle. Cooper got lucky. 

I cant see Mel Wilson ever putting himself on the line like that - a narcissist? Plus the physical profiles dont match.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2017, 11:34:48 PM by georger »
 

georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3444 on: June 20, 2017, 11:44:42 PM »
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Quote
Nobody falls off the face of the earth?  I disagree with that statement.

Vicki,  all your efforts here trying hard to find your missing dad, actually illustrates my point.  Loved ones would be looking for him. Your dad didnt disappear without kin looking for him.   The person may disappear but the ties would not. Thats what was my implication...

However, Mel was already gone a few months prior to the hi-jacking. "Kin" (my mother, myself at age 7, my brother at age 5) WERE NOT looking for him. He was already gone and not coming home. I did not start perusing the internet until I was contacted by the US Marshal's in January 1996 and we appeared in Unsolved Mysteries. In 1996 the internet did not have the information it does today.

I could see your point in this scenario:  Say Gregory (a 6'0 tall, swarthy man with dark/black hair weighing about 180 lbs) was a family man working hard to support a family. He had a mother, father, wife and children and co-workers/friends. Bob had a "grudge" and hijacked the airplane and is now known as DB Cooper. He did make it home for Thanksgiving. Maybe he disappeared entirely. Those people he left behind would be looking and calling authorities after the hi-jacking.

all of this belongs in the Suspect Thread. This is the Tina Bar Money thread?

There's a basic contradiction about Mel being Cooper.  Mel was a forger. His whole modus operendum required cover - impersonation - operating in a false pose as a cover for conducting criminal activity. Then running and disappearing when exposed. I dont see him suddenly giving that up that cover in order to conduct one of the most conspicuous public crimes in history! It violates Mel's whole identity and modus operendum.

Looking for Mel Wilson in the DB Cooper hijacking case strikes me as looking for ice cream in the desert.

<edit> US Treasury etal were already looking for Mel. Every forger has a style - his forged money has a style. When the forger's money turns up somewhere the forger cannot be far behind in the same area. That can result in an easy trace. Being easily traceable is the last thing Cooper wanted. Mel and Cooper were completely different people.

Georger,

I see your point on counterfeiting.  It's a very stealth crime.  Not only does the perpetrator wish to stay hidden, if all goes to plan the crime itself would never be discovered.  Conversely, the hijacker gave a name, showed his face, talked to the flight attendants and made his crime clear for all to see.

On the other hand, you're only looking at only a small part of Mel Wilson's criminal history.  He had served time in San Quentin and consorted with career criminals.  He also had already vanished previously -- his family prior to Vicki's and even his mother never heard from him again after 1963.  A person who was confident is his ability to disappear completely is exactly the kind of person who might attempt a hijack with an evacuation.

If you were trying to profile a career criminal as Cooper, would you be looking at someone more like, say, an armed bank robber?

I wonder what Cooper would have done had they offered him a bigger-better plane and $500k, something with nonstop capability to Mexico City?

Who thinks he would have turned that down and gone with the plane in hand?  :rofl: 

Why didnt they offer Cooper commutation for any and all former crimes, if he would just get off the plane and turn over his bomb? Plus a free cab ride back to wherever he came from? Would Hoover have allowed that?  :offtopicman:
« Last Edit: June 21, 2017, 12:23:09 AM by georger »
 

Robert99

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3445 on: June 21, 2017, 12:22:06 AM »
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I wonder what Cooper would have done had they offered him a bigger-better plane and $500k, something with nonstop capability to Mexico City?

Who thinks he would have turned that down and gone with the plan in hand?  :rofl:

I do.  This is a classic case of where one bird in hand is better than two in the bush.

Other than talking about it, there is nothing to even suggest that Cooper wanted to go to Mexico.

He would have had to change planes in Seattle and that would have been a very dangerous thing for him to do under the circumstances.  Snipers were probably on the scene there even if they have not been mentioned in the records.  Cooper probably suspected as much since he made it a point to spend most of the time on the ground in Seattle in the lavatory.

After getting the $200,000, getting another $300,000 would have involved a tremendous jump in the risk factor to Cooper. 
 
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Offline dice

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3446 on: June 21, 2017, 10:29:50 PM »
Quote
I wonder what Cooper would have done had they offered him a bigger-better plane and $500k, something with nonstop capability to Mexico City?

After reading this, I wanna scream... "Sallozzo might not even be in the car, Sonny!"

Only the 727 had the lowering aft stairs in flight.
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3447 on: July 21, 2017, 05:09:06 PM »
Meyer, what's the latest on checking the Columbia...I think we are good to go?
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3448 on: July 21, 2017, 05:20:28 PM »
Georger, I believe Meyer has some questions in regards with samples (sand). it's my understanding you would like to have these?
 

georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3449 on: July 21, 2017, 11:21:29 PM »
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Georger, I believe Meyer has some questions in regards with samples (sand). it's my understanding you would like to have these?

Meyer just email any questions you have ... yes, saving some sand samples at the time of burial is SOP and wise. Always cover your options for future reference. Those samples should then be given a cursory look-over with notes taken, again for future reference. I can walk Meyer through this - we already discussed it months ago ... ?
G
« Last Edit: July 21, 2017, 11:25:41 PM by georger »