Poll

How did the money arrive on Tena Bar

River Flooding
1 (5%)
Floated to it's resting spot via Columbia river
2 (10%)
Planted
6 (30%)
Dredge
11 (55%)
tossed in the river in a paper bag
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 17

Voting closed: August 16, 2016, 09:05:28 AM

Author Topic: Tena Bar Money Find  (Read 1562669 times)

Offline 377

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3405 on: June 15, 2017, 01:28:37 PM »
Kermit wrote: "If he lands in river , he died. If not his chances were very good. JMHO"

As a half century active skydiver with a DC 9 jet jump, I agree.

First he has to deploy his canopy. If he didn't, wouldn't his body have been found by now? Hunters and off trail hikers cover a lot of ground and many years have passed.

River landing at night? Almost certain death unless he landed in shallow water next to shore. I've done water jumps as part of my license qualifications. Sunny days, warm water, still very hard to get out of the gear. Cold deep water, dark night, I'd likely be dead. The USPA requires that you make a water jump and a night jump to qualify for certain license levels, but notably they do not require a night water jump.

if he landed on solid ground his chances were actually quite good.

377
 
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Offline 377

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3406 on: June 15, 2017, 01:32:33 PM »
And Georger is right, DBC certainly did have a plan. He chose a 727 and then commanded a very specific flight configuration. I also believe, but cannot prove, that DBC knew a 727 was jumpable.

377

 
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georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3407 on: June 15, 2017, 01:34:56 PM »
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And Georger is right, DBC certainly did have a plan. He chose a 727 and then commanded a very specific flight configuration. I also believe, but cannot prove, that DBC knew a 727 was jumpable.

377

He could very easily have been part of that Moses Lake (special forces) group. Even Carr thought he might have come from McChord. Basically, Carr and I wind up thinking the same thoughts... albeit by different routes. 
 

Offline 377

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3408 on: June 15, 2017, 01:46:39 PM »
Colbert is relentless and is forcing the FBI to disgorge more FOIA stuff. Even if you don't think Rackstraw was Cooper you gotta thank TJC for his continuing efforts in that area. If Rackstraw were younger I'd be more inclined to think of him as a viable suspect. He sure had ALL the skills and also the mindset... and boy did he have a grudge. Served admirably in combat and then got discharged for lying about his education. I think under the circumstances a demotion and reprimand would have been more fair. He seems utterly without a moral compass or conscience. He was also an explosives expert. I often wondered if he had been Cooper whether the 727 would have been blown up after his exit.

377

 
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georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3409 on: June 15, 2017, 02:05:24 PM »
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Colbert is relentless and is forcing the FBI to disgorge more FOIA stuff. Even if you don't think Rackstraw was Cooper you gotta thank TJC for his continuing efforts in that area. If Rackstraw were younger I'd be more inclined to think of him as a viable suspect. He sure had ALL the skills and also the mindset... and boy did he have a grudge. Served admirably in combat and then got discharged for lying about his education. I think under the circumstances a demotion and reprimand would have been more fair. He seems utterly without a moral compass or conscience. He was also an explosives expert. I often wondered if he had been Cooper whether the 727 would have been blown up after his exit.

377

This may be a case of too many skills and too much - of everything! Rather than messing around with hijacking an airliner in the far northwest and asking a mere $200k, I could see Rackstraw hijacking a submarine and taking it to Russia .. with everybody on board, or asking his rank be restored plus a million dollars -  Or blowing up the Pentagon? 

Rackstraw is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay over qualified!  :congrats:
« Last Edit: June 15, 2017, 02:09:07 PM by georger »
 

Offline Kermit

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3410 on: June 15, 2017, 02:11:41 PM »
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There we go again. There isn't all that much evidence in this case one way or the other ! It's open to opinions and possibilities. I'm open minded and I have an opinion ! I think he was intelligent and NOT an idiot. Who's correct ? Nobody knows ? The fact that it's 45 years ago and NOBODY knows for certain what happened tells me he had a decent plan PERHAPS.

To the best of my knowledge, no one on this site, or even on DZ, has ever called Cooper an idiot.

Also, what in my post on this do you consider to be an "opinion"?

I don't understand your statement that, "The fact that it's 45 years ago and NOBODY knows for certain what happened tells me he had a decent plan PERHAPS.", tells you anything.  Could you explain your logic? 

The only thing that "NOBODY knows for certain what happened" tells me is that NOBODY knows for certain what happened.
Ok, I've changed my mind and will respond. First off you seem to have a problem as to the meaning of " perhaps ". If I say perhaps you are correct, it means 1. You might be correct 2. You might be incorrect ! I didn't say anyone posted that Cooper was an idiot. I implied that IF Cooper jumped in the dark into the wilderness without a compass, altimiter, no escape plan or flashlight , he would qualify as an idiot. What would you call him? Brilliant, bright, intelligent, an idiot, dumb, stupid, a little slow ? Sorry that you seem to understand my posts. As to what in your post do I,consider an opinion. You make a big deal out of Cooper stating he wants to fly directly straight throgh to Mexico without refueling and flaps down etc. To you this means he should have known that wasn't possible and he should have known this ! However it DOESNT mean he didn't know this ! Do you think that's a fact ? I say perhaps !
It could also mean he's intelligent and doesn't want anyone to know his intentions ! The swat team was there when the plane landed in Reno so the authorities weren't sure of what his plans were. If you seem to want to dissect my every word in my post, please do so correctly. Another option is ignore ! JMHO  I'm assuming you know what that means.
 

Robert99

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3411 on: June 15, 2017, 03:19:00 PM »
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There we go again. There isn't all that much evidence in this case one way or the other ! It's open to opinions and possibilities. I'm open minded and I have an opinion ! I think he was intelligent and NOT an idiot. Who's correct ? Nobody knows ? The fact that it's 45 years ago and NOBODY knows for certain what happened tells me he had a decent plan PERHAPS.

To the best of my knowledge, no one on this site, or even on DZ, has ever called Cooper an idiot.

Also, what in my post on this do you consider to be an "opinion"?

I don't understand your statement that, "The fact that it's 45 years ago and NOBODY knows for certain what happened tells me he had a decent plan PERHAPS.", tells you anything.  Could you explain your logic? 

The only thing that "NOBODY knows for certain what happened" tells me is that NOBODY knows for certain what happened.

This is semantics. Of course he had a plan. He conducted a hijacking vs going fishing that day. That alone may make him an "idiot" - it all depends on your point of view and what type of plan it was. Who he was and his skill base matters, but that's up for debate.

He had a detailed proposal for doing or achieving something.  He formed an intention or decision about what one is going to do. He asked if it was a 727 coming in - a jumpable plane. He issued demands and gave instructions and he executed 'his proposal'. He explained it saying he had been waiting for the right plane in the right place at the right time. That's a "plan".

Agreed that he had some kind of a plan.  But how does the statement that "NOBODY knows for certain what happened" prove that he had a plan? ???  I'm surprised that 377, a lawyer, didn't get the point here. :(
« Last Edit: June 15, 2017, 03:26:44 PM by Robert99 »
 

georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3412 on: June 15, 2017, 03:29:26 PM »
Sediments in between the bills ... usually result from exposure to the environment. A thing must be in that environment for exposure to occur. Here are the different geological zones applicable depending on where Cooper and the money might have spent time, post-drop. We already know the FBI lab found only "Columbia river sediments' in between the bills. No sign of any other exposure in a different geological zone. see attached 
« Last Edit: June 15, 2017, 03:30:36 PM by georger »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3413 on: June 15, 2017, 05:00:34 PM »
He was an idiot to a certain degree. criminals are basically idiots, you have dumb ones, and smart ones, but most, either way get caught.

We have so many bits and pieces that makes it hard to come to any conclusion.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2017, 08:58:25 PM by Shutter »
 

Offline Kermit

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3414 on: June 15, 2017, 05:13:11 PM »
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There we go again. There isn't all that much evidence in this case one way or the other ! It's open to opinions and possibilities. I'm open minded and I have an opinion ! I think he was intelligent and NOT an idiot. Who's correct ? Nobody knows ? The fact that it's 45 years ago and NOBODY knows for certain what happened tells me he had a decent plan PERHAPS.

To the best of my knowledge, no one on this site, or even on DZ, has ever called Cooper an idiot.

Also, what in my post on this do you consider to be an "opinion"?

I don't understand your statement that, "The fact that it's 45 years ago and NOBODY knows for certain what happened tells me he had a decent plan PERHAPS.", tells you anything.  Could you explain your logic? 

The only thing that "NOBODY knows for certain what happened" tells me is that NOBODY knows for certain what happened.

This is semantics. Of course he had a plan. He conducted a hijacking vs going fishing that day. That alone may make him an "idiot" - it all depends on your point of view and what type of plan it was. Who he was and his skill base matters, but that's up for debate.

He had a detailed proposal for doing or achieving something.  He formed an intention or decision about what one is going to do. He asked if it was a 727 coming in - a jumpable plane. He issued demands and gave instructions and he executed 'his proposal'. He explained it saying he had been waiting for the right plane in the right place at the right time. That's a "plan".

Agreed that he had some kind of a plan.  But how does the statement that "NOBODY knows for certain what happened" prove that he had a plan? ???  I'm surprised that 377, a lawyer, didn't get the point here. :(
Once again that complicated word " Perhaps ". Perhaps he had a brilliant plan .... perhaps he didn't have a plan ! Take you choice as we each have our opinions. I didn't declare it as a fact nor did I call it proof !
 

Offline 377

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3415 on: June 15, 2017, 05:35:36 PM »
Georger wrote about Rackstraw: "This may be a case of too many skills and too much - of everything! Rather than messing around with hijacking an airliner in the far northwest and asking a mere $200k, I could see Rackstraw hijacking a submarine and taking it to Russia .. with everybody on board, or asking his rank be restored plus a million dollars -  Or blowing up the Pentagon?"

Good one G! I was thinking too small.

If Rackstraw thinks his ownership of a yacht makes it worth 10x market price, he should start buying cars and planes and reselling them at a huge margin.  Elvis's engineless, obsolete and neglected Lockheed Jetstar recently sold for $430,000, easily 10x what it was worth.

377


« Last Edit: June 15, 2017, 05:44:54 PM by 377 »
 

Offline 377

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3416 on: June 15, 2017, 05:38:45 PM »
R99 wrote: "Agreed that he had some kind of a plan.  But how does the statement that "NOBODY knows for certain what happened" prove that he had a plan? ???  I'm surprised that 377, a lawyer, didn't get the point here. :("

I didn't miss the point Robert. I agree that the two do not follow logically. When I conclude that DBC had a plan I am relying only on the plan evidence (choice of acft and commanded flight configuration).

377
 

Offline 377

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3417 on: June 15, 2017, 05:44:19 PM »
I've always thought that if Cooper cratered he would have left behind a lot of pending/continuing financial obligations (rent, house payments, utility bills) that would have screamed "missing person" when he failed to pay.  The FBI was looking for that.

But what if Cooper planned to leave his home area for good after the skyjack and got all his affairs in order? What if he got ready to leave without any hanging obligations? Tell the neighbors you are relocating, sell the house, terminate the rental, shut off the utilities etc. Nobody would think missing person.

Would he have thought that far ahead?

377
 

Offline andrade1812

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3418 on: June 15, 2017, 05:54:17 PM »
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I've always thought that if Cooper cratered he would have left behind a lot of pending/continuing financial obligations (rent, house payments, utility bills) that would have screamed "missing person" when he failed to pay.  The FBI was looking for that.

But what if Cooper planned to leave his home area for good after the skyjack and got all his affairs in order? What if he got ready to leave without any hanging obligations? Tell the neighbors you are relocating, sell the house, terminate the rental, shut off the utilities etc. Nobody would think missing person.

Would he have thought that far ahead?

377

I looked through a number of profiles of missing people on the NamUS database, specifically the unclaimed bodies, to get a feel for what kind of person can die with so few social connections that no one will claim or even be able to put a name to their body. I don't believe any of the people I read about would have been able to plan or perform this heist.
 
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Robert99

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3419 on: June 15, 2017, 05:57:24 PM »
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I've always thought that if Cooper cratered he would have left behind a lot of pending/continuing financial obligations (rent, house payments, utility bills) that would have screamed "missing person" when he failed to pay.  The FBI was looking for that.

But what if Cooper planned to leave his home area for good after the skyjack and got all his affairs in order? What if he got ready to leave without any hanging obligations? Tell the neighbors you are relocating, sell the house, terminate the rental, shut off the utilities etc. Nobody would think missing person.

Would he have thought that far ahead?

377

Cooper may have been part of the mass migration of former Boeing employees who were laid off in the early 1970s.  Tens of thousands of people left the Seattle area at that time.  Unless he stiffed Sailshaw for a weeks rent, no one would probably have noticed his leaving. :)