Poll

How did the money arrive on Tena Bar

River Flooding
1 (5%)
Floated to it's resting spot via Columbia river
2 (10%)
Planted
6 (30%)
Dredge
11 (55%)
tossed in the river in a paper bag
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 17

Voting closed: August 16, 2016, 09:05:28 AM

Author Topic: Tena Bar Money Find  (Read 1565385 times)

FLYJACK

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3180 on: May 16, 2017, 01:21:45 PM »
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I'm 100 % convinced that the money found on Tina Bar is indeed part of Cooper's loot so I have little interest in where Flyjack is going with all this ! I'd like to call into attention a few facts that I'm aware of because I'm a local who grew up in this area since 1946 when my family moved here from Minnesota.

While the TBAR bill serial numbers matched the FBI list, there is NO proof that the FBI list matched 100% the DBC money,, NONE

Everyone had elevated that assumption to fact, myself included, but once you unravel the entire process of creating the published FBI list, there is no proof of its validity. The FBI DBC bill serial number list is 9998 two bill's short so there is confirmed (at least) an error somewhere between the bank creating original MICRO prior to NORJAK and the final FBI published DBC bill list.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2017, 01:22:42 PM by FLYJACK »
 

Offline Kermit

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3181 on: May 16, 2017, 01:51:31 PM »
Flyjack,
I can ONLY speak for myself and I need no further proof ! To ME, logic tells me that the money found on Tina Bar is part of Cooper's loot ! I'm 76 years old .... I'm certain but I was very tiny when my birth certificate was issued so perhaps it's questionable! LOL
 

FLYJACK

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3182 on: May 16, 2017, 01:59:58 PM »
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Flyjack,
I can ONLY speak for myself and I need no further proof ! To ME, logic tells me that the money found on Tina Bar is part of Cooper's loot ! I'm 76 years old .... I'm certain but I was very tiny when my birth certificate was issued so perhaps it's questionable! LOL

You can certainly have that opinion or claim a probability, but it is not actually based in fact.

The entire process to produce the FBI DBC bill list has potential for errors and did produce (an) error 9998 bills.

My point is we have assumed the FBI list is FACT, it is not. It is an assumption. It may be a correct assumption.

The TBAR bills claimed to be in 3 regular bundles of 100 supports an error since DBC bills were made irregular. So, this needs to be sorted. There may be a simple explanation.

Essentially, the TBAR bills serial numbers matched the bill serial numbers on the $250k bank maintained MICRO prior to NORJAK. There is no way to confirm that the FBI DBC bill list matched DBC money.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2017, 02:25:19 PM by FLYJACK »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3183 on: May 16, 2017, 02:24:17 PM »
again, you are assuming a lot based on several documents. we don't have the full story on this.

the bank never checked the remaining bills they had at the bank after the transfer, where is the proof they did, or did not? Tom Kaye said they have several 302's and some had different info in them, so until you have all the pieces to the puzzle can you claim facts....
 

FLYJACK

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3184 on: May 16, 2017, 03:24:13 PM »
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again, you are assuming a lot based on several documents. we don't have the full story on this.

the bank never checked the remaining bills they had at the bank after the transfer, where is the proof they did, or did not? Tom Kaye said they have several 302's and some had different info in them, so until you have all the pieces to the puzzle can you claim facts....

Don't challenge me, I am not making a claim here.. Challenge the process I outlined, those aren't my claims they come from FBI docs/info.

The bank did record the top/bottom bill for the remaining 15 bundles of 100's to establish the 15 sets of two numbers for the FBI to remove the 1500 bills from the MICRO list. It is in the FBI files that I posted long ago regarding this and it is confirmed again in the Lawyers letter questioning the 2 missing bills.

That entire process is derived from FBI docs, CKRET and Kaye, and none of those sources are in conflict.

It is a subtle point within a very complex process that produced the FBI DBC bill list and it is clear to me that many of you just don't understand it. I had to go through it many times to get it myself. When I read DZ when it was discussed nobody got it right there, except Kaye. He tried to explain it but nobody got it.

Re-read my detailed post, go through each point and then challenge the points against FBI docs.. if you find a discrepancy let's try to sort it out.

We can't discuss or solve this if you guys don't fully understand the process that produced the FBI DBC bill list..

 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3185 on: May 16, 2017, 03:47:36 PM »
Don't come off high and mighty with me. I posted what I think about this.

The bank outlined the notes that needed to be removed in the letter...

My post above revolves around the issue at hand, and I will continue to ask questions, or challenge anything around the claim. that's how it's done. it's not an attack on you..it's questions surrounding the issue...

Shutter
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3186 on: May 16, 2017, 03:56:24 PM »
Quote
The bank did record the top/bottom bill for the remaining 15 bundles of 100's to establish the 15 sets of two numbers for the FBI to remove the 1500 bills from the MICRO list. It is in the FBI files that I posted long ago regarding this and it is confirmed again in the Lawyers letter questioning the 2 missing bills.

where is the reply to this letter? was it a phone call, or another letter we don't have. was the error discovered and for reasons we don't know was left as it stands now? can you confirm nobody looked into this error? you might be right, but as it stands now we don't have enough to run to the media screaming coverup?

It states that he would be in direct contact with Al Lee, did you follow up on this?

It appears a second list for the extra 30k of 20's was made...what's listed in the letter are the groups...
« Last Edit: May 16, 2017, 04:10:14 PM by Shutter »
 

FLYJACK

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3187 on: May 16, 2017, 04:23:06 PM »
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Quote
The bank did record the top/bottom bill for the remaining 15 bundles of 100's to establish the 15 sets of two numbers for the FBI to remove the 1500 bills from the MICRO list. It is in the FBI files that I posted long ago regarding this and it is confirmed again in the Lawyers letter questioning the 2 missing bills.

where is the reply to this letter? was it a phone call, or another letter we don't have. was the error discovered and for reasons we don't know was left as it stands now? can you confirm nobody looked into this error? you might be right, but as it stands now we don't have enough to run to the media screaming coverup?

It states that he would be in direct contact with Al Lee, did you follow up on this?

It appears a second list for the extra 30k of 20's was made...what's listed in the letter are the groups...

First, I am not suggesting nor believe a coverup..  Please don't go there. I believe, if any list error occurred it would be due to process or clerical from original bank MICRO production to the non FBI's DBC bill elimination.

Second, the published FBI DBC list is still 9998, two bill's short.


The FBI took the MICRO from the bank, it was in physical order for all $250k. ($20k in 10's)

The top and bottom bill from the non DBC bundles were marked on the MICRO list then removed with all 98 in between x 15 bundles = 1500 bills. This created the second list of 9998 bills assumed to be all the DBC bills..
« Last Edit: May 16, 2017, 04:28:10 PM by FLYJACK »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3188 on: May 16, 2017, 04:34:55 PM »
the only error is the two bills...we have no way to know whether the bank made sure they had the 30k of serial numbers matching the bills they had...we have no proof whether or not the missing serial numbers became a forgotten issue. I have doubts it slipped through, but one never knows, it's possible..

was every serial number counted, or did you count the first rows? could you have made a similar mistake the lawyer did?
 

FLYJACK

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3189 on: May 16, 2017, 04:48:43 PM »
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the only error is the two bills...we have no way to know whether the bank made sure they had the 30k of serial numbers matching the bills they had...we have no proof whether or not the missing serial numbers became a forgotten issue. I have doubts it slipped through, but one never knows, it's possible..

was every serial number counted, or did you count the first rows? could you have made a similar mistake the lawyer did?

The two bill error only proves that there is a list error from the bank pre NORJAK MICRO production to the FBI published list.. If you fully understand the entire process you can see that it is unverifiable and could result in a flawed FBI DBC bill list.. The accuracy of the list relies on the bank's pre-Norjak MICRO to 100% match the $250k and the FBI to have eliminated the 1500 bill's correctly.

The published FBI list is,,

pages 1-33.... 60 lines x 5 columns x 33 pages = 9900

pages 34....... 20 lines x 4 columns + 18 x 1 column = 98 (last column is 2 short)

Total = 9998 bill total.

The two bill list error doesn't negate the TBAR money, it only confirms a flawed system.

 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3190 on: May 16, 2017, 05:01:58 PM »
In my opinion, until more documents surround this issue come into play, I only see an error of two bills. you are opening the door to more than the documented two...at the present time, it shouldn't be considered a flawed system.

The letter also states to have the film checked by the bank. we don't know if they did that....
« Last Edit: May 16, 2017, 05:23:57 PM by Shutter »
 

FLYJACK

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3191 on: May 16, 2017, 06:59:23 PM »
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In my opinion, until more documents surround this issue come into play, I only see an error of two bills. you are opening the door to more than the documented two...at the present time, it shouldn't be considered a flawed system.

The letter also states to have the film checked by the bank. we don't know if they did that....

Shutter, with all do respect you don't fully understand the process and issue..

The accuracy of the published FBI bill list being 100% = to the actual bills DBC received relies on:

A. The pre-NORJAK bank produced and maintained MICRO matching the $250k emergency stash 100%. << that is unverifiable after the money was sent from the bank to the plane.

B. The FBI deducted the correct 1500 bills from the Micro list. << that is unverifiable without the MICRO list.


Everybody has treated as fact that the FBI DBC bill list is 100% = DBC money. << There is no evidence for this. It is an assumption. It may be true but still an assumption.


So, flip it around and ask,

What evidence supports the FBI list is 100% accurate to the actual money DBC received.

Answer NONE, but there is evidence of an error, missing 2 bills and an inconsistency, the DBC bundles irregular and the TBAR bundles regular.


What we really need detailed info on the initial production process of the MICRO list by the Bank and the chain of custody for the MICRO and the $250k emergency stash. How long before NORJAK was that MICRO produced, 1 year? 3 years? Was it secured with the $250k.. We are relying on the Bank to maintain a 100% accurate MICRO while the FBI list ended up 2 bills short.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2017, 07:30:35 PM by FLYJACK »
 

FLYJACK

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3192 on: May 16, 2017, 07:36:03 PM »
FBI DBC bill list 9998, 2 short

pages 33 and 34 (last page)
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3193 on: May 16, 2017, 07:44:02 PM »
You are basing all of this on two missing serial numbers.....the letter from the lawyer asked to insure the bank checks the numbers to make certain of the bills vs numbers...

DO YOU HAVE PROOF THEY DID NOT?
Do you have proof the bills found were in bundles of $2,000, or any other number?
Do we have all the documents surrounding this issue?

The bills checked from the money found in 1980 are on the list.
The bills in the 302's showing first and last numbers are not on the list. it appears another list was given to insure they had the right numbers vs bills from the 30k.

I understand that two serial numbers are missing, but do you know why? is it possible they really didn't care since so many bills were involved?

by stating they only removed the first and last bills from the 30k is pure speculation and doesn't really show and error except for the original DOCUMENTED missing numbers?

wasn't it the bank they gave them the money, then gave them a list to delete the 30k. from all known records they got 200k, and was informed on which bills to remove from the list. somehow two came up missing. we don't have the full story on this.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3194 on: May 16, 2017, 07:51:24 PM »
The letter from the lawyer that you are using as proof has just as much proof showing the issue was found. he asked for them to check the numbers again, he went on to state he would contact Al Lee about this issue. do you have any documentation none of this was addressed beyond the lawyer. the missing numbers is troubling, but we don't have all the documents?