Poll

How did the money arrive on Tena Bar

River Flooding
1 (5%)
Floated to it's resting spot via Columbia river
2 (10%)
Planted
6 (30%)
Dredge
11 (55%)
tossed in the river in a paper bag
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 17

Voting closed: August 16, 2016, 09:05:28 AM

Author Topic: Tena Bar Money Find  (Read 1364335 times)

FLYJACK

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3150 on: May 14, 2017, 02:46:24 PM »
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I don't see any conflict between Ckret and Kaye (transcript)..

The only issue that needs clearing up is the bank guy making DBC bundles irregular and TBAR regular 3x100 bundles..


The greater issue is the FBI had nothing to do with recording any of the bills or maintaining the integrity of the MICRO list vs the $250k emergency stash.

So, any error by the bank is unverifiable and would produce a bogus FBI list. We need to know when the Micro was made and a chain of custody for the $250k emergency stash. Canister/Micro is gone. WHY

One Example: A year before a $25k ransom was paid and the guy was arrested in Portland. FBI refused to admit if the money was recovered. If the bank had taken the $25k from the emergency stash then replaced it without re-photographing the entire MICRO list in order then the $25k ransom bills serial numbers would end up in the DBC list and it is then possible that the TBAR money is from that $25k ransom.

There is no evidence that the MICRO list in the canister given to the FBI maintained by the bank 100% matched the $250k emergency stash. If it didn't then the edited and published alpha numeric FBI list is wrong and would contain bill numbers never given to DBC.

.

FLYJACK,

Your attempts to change the facts in order to support your candidate of choice are obvious.

You apparently are trying to claim that the Tina Bar money was not even part of the money given to Cooper.

And you are trying to claim that the location of Cooper's jump is nowhere close to Tina Bar or the original FBI proposed jump zone.

With such "alternate facts", why don't you just claim Cooper hijacked a United 727 and bailed out near Spokane?

nonsense,
what facts have I changed?

You are just trying to protect your theory..

And you are just trying to change facts so you can introduce your "Cooper candidate".

No,

You fail to identify the facts that you claim I have changed.
and
This has zero impact on any suspect and whether they died in the jump or survived.


Fact: Some identified TBAR bill serial numbers matched the FBI list.

Fact: The FBI never recorded the bill serial numbers given to DBC.
 

georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3151 on: May 14, 2017, 02:59:10 PM »
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I don't see any conflict between Ckret and Kaye (transcript)..

The only issue that needs clearing up is the bank guy making DBC bundles irregular and TBAR regular 3x100 bundles..


The greater issue is the FBI had nothing to do with recording any of the bills or maintaining the integrity of the MICRO list vs the $250k emergency stash.

So, any error by the bank is unverifiable and would produce a bogus FBI list. We need to know when the Micro was made and a chain of custody for the $250k emergency stash. Canister/Micro is gone. WHY

One Example: A year before a $25k ransom was paid and the guy was arrested in Portland. FBI refused to admit if the money was recovered. If the bank had taken the $25k from the emergency stash then replaced it without re-photographing the entire MICRO list in order then the $25k ransom bills serial numbers would end up in the DBC list and it is then possible that the TBAR money is from that $25k ransom.

There is no evidence that the MICRO list in the canister given to the FBI maintained by the bank 100% matched the $250k emergency stash. If it didn't then the edited and published alpha numeric FBI list is wrong and would contain bill numbers never given to DBC.

.

FLYJACK,

Your attempts to change the facts in order to support your candidate of choice are obvious.

You apparently are trying to claim that the Tina Bar money was not even part of the money given to Cooper.

And you are trying to claim that the location of Cooper's jump is nowhere close to Tina Bar or the original FBI proposed jump zone.

With such "alternate facts", why don't you just claim Cooper hijacked a United 727 and bailed out near Spokane?

nonsense,
what facts have I changed?

You are just trying to protect your theory..

And you are just trying to change facts so you can introduce your "Cooper candidate".

No,

You fail to identify the facts that you claim I have changed.
and
This has zero impact on any suspect and whether they died in the jump or survived.


Fact: Some identified TBAR bill serial numbers matched the FBI list.

Fact: The FBI never recorded the bill serial numbers given to DBC.

A:  Fact: Some identified TBAR bill serial numbers matched the FBI list.

B:  Fact: The FBI never recorded the bill serial numbers given to DBC.

C:  Fact: Mother Terresa never recorded the bill serial numbers given to DBC.

D:  Fact: Some identified TBAR bill serial numbers matched the FBI list, which the FBI never recorded .

E:  Fact:  You never recorded the bill serial numbers given to DBC either!

F:  Fact: Therefore anything is possible. It is possible that DBC received $250k but never received $200K of it, and none of the serial numbers match any serial numbers that Pope Francis or anyone else was not given but made a copy anyway! Any permutation is possible if you just claim it.   

This is all semantic bullshit.

« Last Edit: May 14, 2017, 03:04:12 PM by georger »
 

FLYJACK

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3152 on: May 14, 2017, 03:52:38 PM »
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I don't see any conflict between Ckret and Kaye (transcript)..

The only issue that needs clearing up is the bank guy making DBC bundles irregular and TBAR regular 3x100 bundles..


The greater issue is the FBI had nothing to do with recording any of the bills or maintaining the integrity of the MICRO list vs the $250k emergency stash.

So, any error by the bank is unverifiable and would produce a bogus FBI list. We need to know when the Micro was made and a chain of custody for the $250k emergency stash. Canister/Micro is gone. WHY

One Example: A year before a $25k ransom was paid and the guy was arrested in Portland. FBI refused to admit if the money was recovered. If the bank had taken the $25k from the emergency stash then replaced it without re-photographing the entire MICRO list in order then the $25k ransom bills serial numbers would end up in the DBC list and it is then possible that the TBAR money is from that $25k ransom.

There is no evidence that the MICRO list in the canister given to the FBI maintained by the bank 100% matched the $250k emergency stash. If it didn't then the edited and published alpha numeric FBI list is wrong and would contain bill numbers never given to DBC.

.

FLYJACK,

Your attempts to change the facts in order to support your candidate of choice are obvious.

You apparently are trying to claim that the Tina Bar money was not even part of the money given to Cooper.

And you are trying to claim that the location of Cooper's jump is nowhere close to Tina Bar or the original FBI proposed jump zone.

With such "alternate facts", why don't you just claim Cooper hijacked a United 727 and bailed out near Spokane?

nonsense,
what facts have I changed?

You are just trying to protect your theory..

And you are just trying to change facts so you can introduce your "Cooper candidate".

No,

You fail to identify the facts that you claim I have changed.
and
This has zero impact on any suspect and whether they died in the jump or survived.


Fact: Some identified TBAR bill serial numbers matched the FBI list.

Fact: The FBI never recorded the bill serial numbers given to DBC.

A:  Fact: Some identified TBAR bill serial numbers matched the FBI list.

B:  Fact: The FBI never recorded the bill serial numbers given to DBC.

C:  Fact: Mother Terresa never recorded the bill serial numbers given to DBC.

D:  Fact: Some identified TBAR bill serial numbers matched the FBI list, which the FBI never recorded .

E:  Fact:  You never recorded the bill serial numbers given to DBC either!

F:  Fact: Therefore anything is possible. It is possible that DBC received $250k but never received $200K of it, and none of the serial numbers match any serial numbers that Pope Francis or anyone else was not given but made a copy anyway! Any permutation is possible if you just claim it.   

This is all semantic bullshit.

Robert99 accused me of changing facts but refuses to identify them.

So, Georger resorts to his typical strawman stuff... waste of time.

 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3153 on: May 14, 2017, 03:55:02 PM »
Flyjack, you are going against known physical evidence. the plane was not over the placard area at 8:10 unless you backup the takeoff time. the plane can't stall in mid-air for several minutes..this would be like pulling a 22 bullet out of a body claiming it was a 38...
 

FLYJACK

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3154 on: May 14, 2017, 04:04:23 PM »
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Flyjack, you are going against known physical evidence. the plane was not over the placard area at 8:10 unless you backup the takeoff time. the plane can't stall in mid-air for several minutes..this would be like pulling a 22 bullet out of a body claiming it was a 38...

No, I am not actually.

I gave a target zone and said go south from there and probability drops as you go south.

THAT is not wrong..
 

georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3155 on: May 14, 2017, 04:44:10 PM »
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Flyjack, you are going against known physical evidence. the plane was not over the placard area at 8:10 unless you backup the takeoff time. the plane can't stall in mid-air for several minutes..this would be like pulling a 22 bullet out of a body claiming it was a 38...

No, I am not actually.

I gave a target zone and said go south from there and probability drops as you go south.

THAT is not wrong..

The NWA-USAF search map ALREADY said the probability drops going south! That's not new. 
 

FLYJACK

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3156 on: May 14, 2017, 04:46:05 PM »
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Flyjack, you are going against known physical evidence. the plane was not over the placard area at 8:10 unless you backup the takeoff time. the plane can't stall in mid-air for several minutes..this would be like pulling a 22 bullet out of a body claiming it was a 38...

No, I am not actually.

I gave a target zone and said go south from there and probability drops as you go south.

THAT is not wrong..

The NWA-USAF search map ALREADY said the probability drops going south! That's not new.

Completely irrelevent, my analysis is different... I didn't use any NWA-USAF statements or data..

specifically, from 15 miles N of Merwin, probability drops as you go south
« Last Edit: May 14, 2017, 04:48:00 PM by FLYJACK »
 

FLYJACK

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3157 on: May 14, 2017, 04:51:11 PM »
In fact if you use a 2 minutes range for the TT = 20:09 and 1 min for drift..

Where was the plane at 20:08 <<< that is your BINGO.. I bet it is 10-15 miles N of Merwin
 

georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3158 on: May 14, 2017, 04:58:12 PM »
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In fact if you use a 2 minutes range for the TT = 20:09 and 1 min for drift..

Where was the plane at 20:08 <<< that is your BINGO.. I bet it is 10-15 miles N of Merwin

Well, so far as I know, the standard error is 1 min, but the direction is south not north.

An alleged Anderson interview extended that from 3-6 minutes but again the direction of error was to the south, all due to an alleged reporting delay. That was never proven and the whole interview may have been a Cook hoax! There was never any confirmation it was actually Anderson answering our questions - very disappointing!
« Last Edit: May 14, 2017, 04:59:39 PM by georger »
 

FLYJACK

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3159 on: May 14, 2017, 08:36:25 PM »
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In fact if you use a 2 minutes range for the TT = 20:09 and 1 min for drift..

Where was the plane at 20:08 <<< that is your BINGO.. I bet it is 10-15 miles N of Merwin

Well, so far as I know, the standard error is 1 min, but the direction is south not north.

An alleged Anderson interview extended that from 3-6 minutes but again the direction of error was to the south, all due to an alleged reporting delay. That was never proven and the whole interview may have been a Cook hoax! There was never any confirmation it was actually Anderson answering our questions - very disappointing!

There are two errors, the TT time is rounded off in minutes and recorded at end = 2 minutes variability..

The drift can account for about 1 more minute,, if he drifts NE from point he leaves plane.

so, that is 20:08

I used the 20:06/07 point as a reference to the geographic spot on the known map NOT TO REFERENCE TIME. So ignore that as a time reference it only confuses things..

I never used time, I used events.

If 20:08 lines up with about 15 miles N of Merwin that is my LZ ZONE...

THAT is the highest probability for an LZ then work south from there as probability reduces..



 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3160 on: May 14, 2017, 08:46:14 PM »
Quote
If 20:08 lines up with about 15 miles N of Merwin that is my LZ ZONE..

and is yours to keep...

R99 January 17, 2001

Quote
All time stamps are questionable except the ones in the Air Traffic Control transcripts. Quade will probably dispute this and everything else, but the times shown on the ATC tapes are precise because they are part of a system that is designed to be precise in the first place. Precise times are needed for use in aerial navigation and these times are routinely used in incident and accident investigations.

The other times come from various sources which apparently show the time that the message appeared on the NWA teletype system print outs. South of Portland, the crew contacts with the NWA ARINC system were relayed by other airliners and this resulted in time lags of up to 5 or 10 minutes from the time the crew spoke the words until the message appeared on the NWA teletype.

Robert Nicholson
« Last Edit: May 14, 2017, 08:49:10 PM by Shutter »
 

MeyerLouie

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3161 on: May 14, 2017, 09:16:52 PM »
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I don't see any conflict between Ckret and Kaye (transcript)..

The only issue that needs clearing up is the bank guy making DBC bundles irregular and TBAR regular 3x100 bundles..


The greater issue is the FBI had nothing to do with recording any of the bills or maintaining the integrity of the MICRO list vs the $250k emergency stash.

So, any error by the bank is unverifiable and would produce a bogus FBI list. We need to know when the Micro was made and a chain of custody for the $250k emergency stash. Canister/Micro is gone. WHY

One Example: A year before a $25k ransom was paid and the guy was arrested in Portland. FBI refused to admit if the money was recovered. If the bank had taken the $25k from the emergency stash then replaced it without re-photographing the entire MICRO list in order then the $25k ransom bills serial numbers would end up in the DBC list and it is then possible that the TBAR money is from that $25k ransom.

There is no evidence that the MICRO list in the canister given to the FBI maintained by the bank 100% matched the $250k emergency stash. If it didn't then the edited and published alpha numeric FBI list is wrong and would contain bill numbers never given to DBC.

.

FLYJACK,

Your attempts to change the facts in order to support your candidate of choice are obvious.

You apparently are trying to claim that the Tina Bar money was not even part of the money given to Cooper.

And you are trying to claim that the location of Cooper's jump is nowhere close to Tina Bar or the original FBI proposed jump zone.

With such "alternate facts", why don't you just claim Cooper hijacked a United 727 and bailed out near Spokane?

nonsense,
what facts have I changed?

You are just trying to protect your theory..

And you are just trying to change facts so you can introduce your "Cooper candidate".

No,

You fail to identify the facts that you claim I have changed.
and
This has zero impact on any suspect and whether they died in the jump or survived.


Fact: Some identified TBAR bill serial numbers matched the FBI list.

Fact: The FBI never recorded the bill serial numbers given to DBC.


Okay, Flyjack, I have moderator status of this particular board, and I have received complaints about you.  You are being confrontational and argumentative just for the sake of being confrontational and argumentative.  This is to let those who have complained about you that I am addressing their concerns. 

We are open to new theories and ideas from folks who are trying to think out of the box.  I respect that about you, you have given us all some new ways to think about the case, and you have presented evidence about concerns re: the legitimacy and source of the money list.  That is commendable.  Nobody here is trying to shut you down.

I too have responded to you in frustration.  It's hard not to.  Your approach is starting to become irritating to some here.  We don't want this forum to turn into what the Quade Dropzone became.  Guys like Georger, R99, and Shutter have been around a long long time.  They know more about this case than anybody else in the world.  They deserve respect from you, from me, and from all.

So, as part of an improved bedside manner, please use a little more sugar and a little less vinegar in your approach....  I will work on that one too with you.

MeyerLouie

« Last Edit: May 14, 2017, 09:54:22 PM by MeyerLouie »
 
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3162 on: May 14, 2017, 09:17:50 PM »
Discussion of the money found in 1980 can continue from this point. anything else needs to be posted in the various threads available that match the posters comment...

Shutter
 
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Offline MarkBennett

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3163 on: May 14, 2017, 09:48:20 PM »
Post removed and posted in the "Clues, Documents And Evidence" thread...

Shutter...
« Last Edit: May 14, 2017, 10:19:51 PM by Shutter »
 

MeyerLouie

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3164 on: May 14, 2017, 10:22:12 PM »
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I don't see any conflict between Ckret and Kaye (transcript)..

The only issue that needs clearing up is the bank guy making DBC bundles irregular and TBAR regular 3x100 bundles..


The greater issue is the FBI had nothing to do with recording any of the bills or maintaining the integrity of the MICRO list vs the $250k emergency stash.

So, any error by the bank is unverifiable and would produce a bogus FBI list. We need to know when the Micro was made and a chain of custody for the $250k emergency stash. Canister/Micro is gone. WHY

One Example: A year before a $25k ransom was paid and the guy was arrested in Portland. FBI refused to admit if the money was recovered. If the bank had taken the $25k from the emergency stash then replaced it without re-photographing the entire MICRO list in order then the $25k ransom bills serial numbers would end up in the DBC list and it is then possible that the TBAR money is from that $25k ransom.

There is no evidence that the MICRO list in the canister given to the FBI maintained by the bank 100% matched the $250k emergency stash. If it didn't then the edited and published alpha numeric FBI list is wrong and would contain bill numbers never given to DBC.

.

FLYJACK,

Your attempts to change the facts in order to support your candidate of choice are obvious.

You apparently are trying to claim that the Tina Bar money was not even part of the money given to Cooper.

And you are trying to claim that the location of Cooper's jump is nowhere close to Tina Bar or the original FBI proposed jump zone.

With such "alternate facts", why don't you just claim Cooper hijacked a United 727 and bailed out near Spokane?

nonsense,
what facts have I changed?

You are just trying to protect your theory..

And you are just trying to change facts so you can introduce your "Cooper candidate".

No,

You fail to identify the facts that you claim I have changed.
and
This has zero impact on any suspect and whether they died in the jump or survived.


Fact: Some identified TBAR bill serial numbers matched the FBI list.

Fact: The FBI never recorded the bill serial numbers given to DBC.

A:  Fact: Some identified TBAR bill serial numbers matched the FBI list.

B:  Fact: The FBI never recorded the bill serial numbers given to DBC.

C:  Fact: Mother Terresa never recorded the bill serial numbers given to DBC.

D:  Fact: Some identified TBAR bill serial numbers matched the FBI list, which the FBI never recorded .

E:  Fact:  You never recorded the bill serial numbers given to DBC either!

F:  Fact: Therefore anything is possible. It is possible that DBC received $250k but never received $200K of it, and none of the serial numbers match any serial numbers that Pope Francis or anyone else was not given but made a copy anyway! Any permutation is possible if you just claim it.   

This is all semantic bullshit.

Robert99 accused me of changing facts but refuses to identify them.

So, Georger resorts to his typical strawman stuff... waste of time.

Flyjack,

R99 said:

"You apparently are trying to claim that the Tina Bar money was not even part of the money given to Cooper.
And you are trying to claim that the location of Cooper's jump is nowhere close to Tina Bar or the original FBI proposed jump zone."

These statements imply two accepted facts -- and they've been around a long time: (a) the Tina Bar money was part of the money given to Cooper, and (b) the jump was in the original FBI jump zone OR close to Tina Bar (both are backed up with their own evidence).
 
You need to cool it!  It's okay to present your claims that oppose conventional thought, but you can't be belligerent and disrespectful.  I really don't like the tone you take with two of the most respected DBC researchers around.  See my other post.

MeyerLouie