I think it's safe to say that the bank gave the FBI $200,000 in 20 dollar bills. they supplied a list for the full amount which was $250,000 and gave them the information to delete the extra $30,000 worth of 20 dollar bills that were not given to them in the first place. the other $20,000 could of been 50's, 100's, or 10's, it doesn't specify, but they did say they should only be concerned with the serial numbers from the 20 dollar bills.

The only error I see is from the letter stating two serial numbers were short from the list. this again, tells me they did there homework. $40 was almost $250 in today's estimate...

I'm sure there are dozens of pages about this transfer that we don't have. the government is very redundant with paperwork.

Yes, $230k in $20's bundles of 100, the other $20k was in 10's, so ignored.


We can't verify the integrity of the MICRO list vs the $250K stash which was maintained by the bank.

We can't verify the accurate deduction of all those 1500 bills by the FBI.


Either can create a flawed FBI list. A flawed FBI list may explain the "CLAIM" of TBAR regular bundles vs DBC irregular bundles. << this needs better confirmation

The 2 bill error was caught by a lawyer, not the FBI.

Tom Kaye August 29, 2013

Quote

So you don't waste any more time on this. Directly from the FBI documents:
"Ransom money in the amount $200,000 was made up entirely of used, random 20 dollar bills. It was obtained from the Seattle-First National Bank, Main Office, and was part of a ransom package of 250,000, which had been maintained by the bank for such emergencies."

"The entire list of the ransom bills had previously been microfilmed by the Seattle-First National Bank, and has now been incorporated in a 34 page pamphlet of ransom bills."

We long ago tried to find the original microfilm so it would show the order of the bills in the bundles. No luck even with Larry Carr helping. In my opinion the available list has no relation to the order of the bundles.

Tom

Quote

More info:

There was a film canister with the film inside that was given to the FBI days after the event. The FBI had to determine which of the bills remained and which were given to Cooper. The canister contained the list of serial numbers in order PLUS a list of the start and stop serial numbers for each bundle. At the end of the film was a list of the start and stop numbers for each bundle that was left in the bank. There were 100 bills exactly per bundle.

The FBI never did any sorting of the bills what so ever from the transcripts. The bank people brought the money to Sea-Tac where the FBI then took it on the plane.

Tom

Ok before this bs goes any further - who are we to believe: Tom Kaye or the FBI agent Larry Carr? Carr says in 2008:

Ckret
Jan 30, 2008, 6:44 PM
Post #1572 of 1694 (818 views)
Registered: Sep 7, 2007
Posts: 522         Re: [ryoder] Recovered Ransom [In reply to]
 
The money was provided by Seafirst bank which is now Bank of America. The money had been earmarked for situations such as these and was always on hand. It had been photographed and serial numbers recorded by their security so the FBI did none of this.

The money was then transported by SeaFirst bank security to a Seattle police detective who then drove it to the airport and handed it over to NWA.  The money was bundled in various counts so that no bundle was the same. Each bundle was secured by rubber band and different counts so that it appeared the money was hastily gathered


Kaye got his info from FBI files?  Carr got his info from FBI files? Who is correct? Kaye or Carr?

Note the dates. Kaye 2013. Carr 2008. These dates are crucial. Because it was about 2013 when a NEW forensic team was organised due to the fact Kaye had not seen any diatoms in his bills or conducted other tests people felt were crucial - we needed to get more data on that and the money samples generally.

So, people at UW and the Ames Lab, Himmelsbach, Thomas, the Ingrams, Carr, and several others were contacted in order to arrange tests using NEW FBI Cooper money samples and just prior to the samples being shipped 'somebody' (I dont recall who) raised this old nonsense again about 'were the Ingram bills wrapped in rubber bands vs paper bank tapes'! To make a long story short, we needed to get that pesky detail settled once and for all. I mean we have people like Kaye running around saying one thing and Carr etal running around saying another and moi and a bunch of real researchers are scheduled to start and we needed to know what the fuck we were doing with some basic factual information'!  Real world researchers are kind of strange that way - they like facts vs endless trailer loads of bullshit!

So, as stated before in a million other places since 2013, I let Larry Carr know we absolutely had to get this matter of rubber vs paper bands settled. We had the name of the guy at the bank who actually wrapped the bundles so we set out to contact him; and Larry did. The gentleman told Larry he had used "rubber" bands not paper bands, and he said (guess what):   "The money was bundled in various counts so that no bundle was the same. Each bundle was secured by rubber bands and in different counts so that it appeared the money was hastily gathered. The FBI guy ordered us to do it that way."

But Kaye turns around and comes out with his version and I never knew why! So who are you going to believe? Quite frankly at this point in 2017 I dont care who or what you believe. 

There it is in black and white. Kaye keeps referring to the Transcript, whatever that is! Kaye calls every document and book in the Cooper Library "The Transcript"! Larry and I and others were there personally in 2013 with the guy from the bank. So I guess you believe Tom Kaye and "The Transcript" whatever that is, or you believe the guys from the bank, Larry, etc! But most importantly, so far as I know that basic info obtained in 2013 has never been replaced or amended except by the fossil and paint ball guy: Tom Kaye.

I mean from my point of view, either the bundles were placed in irregular counts, or they were! And I wish you  COOPER EXPURTS would get this settled for the rest of us once and for all! While you are also moving the Landing Zone to Nome Alaska or Cairo, Egypt because somebody says he knows what Cooper's "intentions" were?




 

It's more like, do we go against documents vs what Carr states? the only way to clear this up is through Carr, not Kaye. does Loren Peterson have some truth in this, did he witness them shuffling the bundles putting himself into the role?

Hell I dont know - maybe Loren Peterson printed off the money right there in the NWA freight bay and that's why the whole thing took so long?

Its kind of like when Grandpa lost the deed to the farm and everyone was dead. Then some guy who ran a paint store in Illinois showed and said "I own the farm" and he had a deed scrawled out on an old paint can. Then the Leroy Marvin Katko showed up trying to steal a tractor and got his arm shot off ... and he wound up owning the farm and the paint store in Illinois! 

Someone, somewhere has the wires crossed...the guy whole bundled the money claims it was different amounts, while the head of security for the bank claims different. I still don't believe it matters one way or the other...I still believe they got 200 grand....Cooper must of thought ahead that they would make the bills traceable..

And according to other people they did - they marked the money. But that part is Super Secret!

Maybe Cooper discovered that later and threw the money away. He already had satisfied his grudge, in a sense.

what time (approx) did the money arrive, and how much time is between his demand and the delivery of the cash?

I think the George Harrison papers have some information on this.

what time (approx) did the money arrive, and how much time is between his demand and the delivery of the cash?

Peterson makes it sound like it was a long time, but Im not sure the flight comm transcript or the Harrison papers reflect that. The flt comm transcript would give some indication because there were quite a few exchanges about the money arriving and then being on board etc. Peterson also says, if you recall, the fuel truck episodes were actual breakdowns in equipment and not some stall (as Ratzk thought). Ratczk breaks that stalemate after Cooper gets upset and the money has been on board maybe an hour?. Rataczak thought the fuel truck business was an intentional stall and Peterson says it was real breakdowns, so there is another contradiction to deal with.

I just wish Kaye would speak up! Because he is one of the people who has issued 'facts' that contradict other people's versions. It just drives me nuts almost like intentional obstruction people then have to deal with and try and resolve! Its like a privatised phone directory nobody else has access to.

I mean My God! If Peterson is correct we are so far from the truth .......................... who knows where this would go.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Tom Kaye August 29, 2013

Quote

So you don't waste any more time on this. Directly from the FBI documents:
"Ransom money in the amount $200,000 was made up entirely of used, random 20 dollar bills. It was obtained from the Seattle-First National Bank, Main Office, and was part of a ransom package of 250,000, which had been maintained by the bank for such emergencies."

"The entire list of the ransom bills had previously been microfilmed by the Seattle-First National Bank, and has now been incorporated in a 34 page pamphlet of ransom bills."

We long ago tried to find the original microfilm so it would show the order of the bills in the bundles. No luck even with Larry Carr helping. In my opinion the available list has no relation to the order of the bundles.

Tom

Quote

More info:

There was a film canister with the film inside that was given to the FBI days after the event. The FBI had to determine which of the bills remained and which were given to Cooper. The canister contained the list of serial numbers in order PLUS a list of the start and stop serial numbers for each bundle. At the end of the film was a list of the start and stop numbers for each bundle that was left in the bank. There were 100 bills exactly per bundle.

The FBI never did any sorting of the bills what so ever from the transcripts. The bank people brought the money to Sea-Tac where the FBI then took it on the plane.

Tom

Ok before this bs goes any further - who are we to believe: Tom Kaye or the FBI agent Larry Carr? Carr says in 2008:

Ckret
Jan 30, 2008, 6:44 PM
Post #1572 of 1694 (818 views)
Registered: Sep 7, 2007
Posts: 522         Re: [ryoder] Recovered Ransom [In reply to]
 
The money was provided by Seafirst bank which is now Bank of America. The money had been earmarked for situations such as these and was always on hand. It had been photographed and serial numbers recorded by their security so the FBI did none of this.

The money was then transported by SeaFirst bank security to a Seattle police detective who then drove it to the airport and handed it over to NWA.  The money was bundled in various counts so that no bundle was the same. Each bundle was secured by rubber band and different counts so that it appeared the money was hastily gathered


Kaye got his info from FBI files?  Carr got his info from FBI files? Who is correct? Kaye or Carr?

Note the dates. Kaye 2013. Carr 2008. These dates are crucial. Because it was about 2013 when a NEW forensic team was organised due to the fact Kaye had not seen any diatoms in his bills or conducted other tests people felt were crucial - we needed to get more data on that and the money samples generally.

So, people at UW and the Ames Lab, Himmelsbach, Thomas, the Ingrams, Carr, and several others were contacted in order to arrange tests using NEW FBI Cooper money samples and just prior to the samples being shipped 'somebody' (I dont recall who) raised this old nonsense again about 'were the Ingram bills wrapped in rubber bands vs paper bank tapes'! To make a long story short, we needed to get that pesky detail settled once and for all. I mean we have people like Kaye running around saying one thing and Carr etal running around saying another and moi and a bunch of real researchers are scheduled to start and we needed to know what the fuck we were doing with some basic factual information'!  Real world researchers are kind of strange that way - they like facts vs endless trailer loads of bullshit!

So, as stated before in a million other places since 2013, I let Larry Carr know we absolutely had to get this matter of rubber vs paper bands settled. We had the name of the guy at the bank who actually wrapped the bundles so we set out to contact him; and Larry did. The gentleman told Larry he had used "rubber" bands not paper bands, and he said (guess what):   "The money was bundled in various counts so that no bundle was the same. Each bundle was secured by rubber bands and in different counts so that it appeared the money was hastily gathered. The FBI guy ordered us to do it that way."

But Kaye turns around and comes out with his version and I never knew why! So who are you going to believe? Quite frankly at this point in 2017 I dont care who or what you believe. 

There it is in black and white. Kaye keeps referring to the Transcript, whatever that is! Kaye calls every document and book in the Cooper Library "The Transcript"! Larry and I and others were there personally in 2013 with the guy from the bank. So I guess you believe Tom Kaye and "The Transcript" whatever that is, or you believe the guys from the bank, Larry, etc! But most importantly, so far as I know that basic info obtained in 2013 has never been replaced or amended except by the fossil and paint ball guy: Tom Kaye.

I mean from my point of view, either the bundles were placed in irregular counts, or they were! And I wish you  COOPER EXPURTS would get this settled for the rest of us once and for all! While you are also moving the Landing Zone to Nome Alaska or Cairo, Egypt because somebody says he knows what Cooper's "intentions" were?

Let's see, do I believe Tom Kaye or Larry Carr?  Will go with Larry Carr.  I think his intentions have always been good, I think he's really wanted progress to be made on the case.  Tom Kaye, on the other hand, is a freakin' quack (I wanted to use the F-bomb but resisted), amateur hobbyist with no science credentials.  I don't know why we keep using him as a reference.  He changes his story, he makes retractions all the time, his conclusions are wimpy.  he's simply not to be trusted.  He needs to go back to finding his dinosaur bones or playing with his paintball games.  Accept the fact that he's unreliable and move on.
MeyerLouie