Center stack, 2nd one up..found a match in a couple minutes?

Center stack, 2nd one up..found a match in a couple minutes?

very interesting, is your scan from the pamphlet, was there a total number count?

My list is 9975, I discovered that some of the TBAR bills were removed, probably Brian's, so I am collecting those missing numbers, I have 18 so far, so 7 bills short (if 10000 total) and that bill H27412938A isn't in there out of the 9993. It might be one of the 7 missing so I checked the online Cooper bill checker and wasn't there either. Site went down and I can't double check.

update: STRANGE,, While I was checking many other TBAR bills that were positive, I checked that bill on that online DBC bill checker and it didn't show positive, tried several times, the site went down for an hour.. It came back up and I tried again and it is now positive.

Tom Kaye August 29, 2013

Quote

So you don't waste any more time on this. Directly from the FBI documents:
"Ransom money in the amount $200,000 was made up entirely of used, random 20 dollar bills. It was obtained from the Seattle-First National Bank, Main Office, and was part of a ransom package of 250,000, which had been maintained by the bank for such emergencies."

"The entire list of the ransom bills had previously been microfilmed by the Seattle-First National Bank, and has now been incorporated in a 34 page pamphlet of ransom bills."

We long ago tried to find the original microfilm so it would show the order of the bills in the bundles. No luck even with Larry Carr helping. In my opinion the available list has no relation to the order of the bundles.

Tom

Quote

More info:

There was a film canister with the film inside that was given to the FBI days after the event. The FBI had to determine which of the bills remained and which were given to Cooper. The canister contained the list of serial numbers in order PLUS a list of the start and stop serial numbers for each bundle. At the end of the film was a list of the start and stop numbers for each bundle that was left in the bank. There were 100 bills exactly per bundle.

The FBI never did any sorting of the bills what so ever from the transcripts. The bank people brought the money to Sea-Tac where the FBI then took it on the plane.

Tom

Exactly as I understand it.. crazy, the way they did this.

The FBI received a list in physical order on MICRO, were to eliminate 1500 bills.
They published an alpha numeric list..

Two potential sources for list error,

The original micro created and maintained by the bank wasn't 100% accurate and maintained to = $250k stash
Removal of the 1500 bills wasn't done correctly, it can only be done using a 100% accurate MICRO list.

Checking the serial numbers on the table at the FBI shows serial numbers included on the list...in the FBI files showing the serial numbers that needed to be deleted are not on the Cooper serial list...

The facts show that they did have some mix up, but it was two serial numbers. this tells me they did check on what they had, ransom vs bank cash. all they would have to do is go through the bundles that didn't make it on the plane to insure what was what. IMO I don't see anything that's out of the ordinary and believe the money found on the beach was part of the ransom given to Cooper.....

                                Now back to your regular scheduled programming 

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And I'm a math guy....,what a rookie mistake!  Unbelievable.  Guess I won't be bugging you anymore, FLYJACK.  You caught me making my biggest blunder of all time here.  In any event, I do read and study your posts carefully, and I will continue to do so. 

But, let me ask the same question, how feasible is it, in the time allotted, for the bank guy to make 100 bundles irregular?  Same argument, just not so way out there.....Meyer

Forget about it, we all make dumb mistakes..

According to Georger the bank was asked by the FBI to make the bundles irregular, I assume one guy but maybe more than one.

but estimate 1 guy maybe 20 seconds per 1 bundle (generous), 3 bundles per minute = 33 minutes straight time, quicker maybe 20-25 minutes.

Not hard, if he happened to miss a few the probability of 3 regular bundles making it together to TBAR is very low.

I doubt he missed any though since he was ordered by the FBI..

Just coming in been busy. First a Ckret post:

Ckret
Apr 19, 2008, 8:54 AM
Post #1468 of 58140 (58777 views)
          Re: [Orange1] Back to Basics [In reply to]
 
________________________________________
I found the guy who packed the money and put it in the bag in 1971. He is going to find the best example of the bag he can and give it to me. Once I have it I will post it for all.

Sluggo, I haven't forgotten you, just slammed right now.


Shutter says in a PM to me:

John Trandall, head of security for the bank...he also gave them a list of the one's not to count as ransom money...

It's in the post Flyjack has, and it's at the end of the files from Gray....


So it may be John Trandall who Ckret found. Trandall made the irregular count bundles given to Cooper at FBI request so 'it would look like the money was put together in haste'. Why that would matter is beyond me. And, the serial numbers in Trandall's packets were presumably in the same order as they are on the bank's master Recordak of their $250k. I believe Trandall is now deceased.

*Again, if the Ingram serial numbers match the numbers on the FBI list created by Trandall, and do not match serial numbers in the $50k bills returned to SeaFirst (not used in the Cooper case), then Ingram bills must be part of the $200k given to Cooper. And it is irrelevant what happened to the $50k not used in the Cooper case.

Here is a Recordak photo showing serial numbers and Trandall's red ink marks where he marked off the beginning and ending serial numbers of each bundle he made given to Cooper - these marks (so far as I know) where the basis for the FBI's list of Cooper serial numbers.

That is the story I have.
   

Georger,

The red dots are on the list I have and the online checker, not removed... L02347694A and L04527804A

Where did the claim come from that the red dots were Trandell's?

"Here is a Recordak photo showing serial numbers and Trandall's red ink marks where he marked off the beginning and ending serial numbers of each bundle he made given to Cooper - these marks (so far as I know) where the basis for the FBI's list of Cooper serial numbers."

John Trendall handled the canister containing the serial numbers and stated that the bundles were in packs of 100.

agent Patrick Murphy gave the canister to a United airline pilot by the name of Richard Bennett, and was flown to Friendship airport which I believe is in Baltimore - Washington....

I think those red dots and yellow markings were done by a poster on the DZ (xyz...something) I seen it on the DZ yesterday...you were also on the same page on DZ.

The partial list of the 30k are not on the list, or at least the one's shown in the file. the other 20k could of been bill that were not 20 dollar bills....

Poster "testxyz" worked hard in trying to locate all the money found in 1980 with the list of serial numbers. that's when Tom Kaye commented about the bundles....

Great, it'll take some time to go through it,

I do see an error in the discussion there.

The Trendall start and stop bills prove that the bank's bundles of 100 were not alpha numeric, the FBI list was alpha numeric.

So, to eliminate the Trendall noted bills and the 98 in between accurately the FBI had to use a physical bill order, it can't be done using the Alpha numeric one.

We assume the MICRO list was in physical order and the FBI used it, but it has disappeared.


and we still can't reconcile the claim that the TBAR bundles were 100's but the DBC bundles were made irregular..


Another note about rubber bands..  If the bank guy made the bundles irregular, he may have used new bands on some of the bundles in that process. The result may be non-uniform banding on the bundles, example: some bundles with thin bans and some with thick bands.