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Robert99 wrote,,

FLYJACK,

Do banks in Canada always use paper bands?  In my judgment, Tina was just saying that the bills were in bundles were held together by heavy duty rubber bands typical of what she had seen in banks in the USA.

You might be right, TINA may have meant the heavy duty wide bands, we don't know Kaye didn't use the wide style rubber bands. And banks always use their bands in denominated bundles. Just not convinced yet..

Quote

And it is absolutely NOT true that "banks always use denomination marked bands on counted bundles" in the USA.  New bills received direct from the Federal Reserve, or wherever they come from, may have paper bands.  But those paper bands come off as the bills are put into use, and while paper bands may be put on bills that have been in circulation, the bands do not necessarily include the information you specified.

Yes, they do if the bundles are counted, they are banded with count. Circulated or not. New Fed Reserve bundles have their unique band. Standard bank practice. Without them would be an exception. In large sums like $250,000 they need to be able to count the money by bundles, now it is possible they were removed for some reason.

Quote

Cooper's original statement about money was dictated to Florence [see page 23, FBI File SE-164-81] and specified that he wanted $200,000 "in cash".  He did not specify a denomination or even that it was to be "American money".

There is another more detailed thread on this, your statement is correct, but out of context. The pilots used the term US/American currency long before the destination Mexico City was ever mentioned. They are American why would they use it. But, this from FBI files "He later told TINA that he wanted $200,000 in circulated U.S. currency, two back and two front parachutes, and fuel trucks to meet the plane when it landed at Seattle." Beyond the original note he was communicating with the pilots verbally via TINA. Using "US/American currency" is consistent with a foreigner, doesn't mean he has to be but it is supportive.

Quote

Due to some previous ransom type situations, the FBI in Seattle had arranged for a local bank to have a "fund" of money set aside that was limited to three yearly "series" with the bill serial numbers recorded on microfilm in order to simplify tracing it.  When the airliner was hijacked, the bank and the FBI then bundled up the $200,000 in irregular size bundles so that the hijacker would think the bills were untraceable.  Everyone involved in the operation said the bundles used rubber bands, and not paper bands, in order not to tip off the hijacker that ever bill he had was traceable.

Now this is fascinating, the Banks had $250,000 set aside in case of these situations They had pre-recorded all serial numbers sequentially on micro. Gave DBC $200,000 and separating the $50,000. To account for the removed bills, they recorded the bill numbers for the $20 packs from the top and bottom of each bundle or 100 bills/pack = ($2000). Only $30k of the non-DBC bundles were $20's. So, they were in 100 bill bundles of $2000. They apparently went back to the micro data and removed the sequences of 100 for each bundle that had been left making up the $30,000 or 15 bundles to create a new DBC bill list. Seems like room for error there. Now, I have read the claims that the DBC bundles were irregular sizes but haven't confirmed that. Not claiming the sizes weren't altered, just haven't come across it yet. The TBAR money was 3 bundles plus some missing/spoilage/frags = $5800 that suggest regular sized bundles aka 100 x $20 bills =$2000 each. Something is inconsistent.

The original $230,000 ($20's) was in 100x$20x115 =200k plus 30k remainder
The TBAR money suggests it was in 100x$20x3 bundles=$5800 plus spoilage/frags =$6000

Was the DBC money irregularly bundled?, if so the bank denomination bands would have been removed, but if not then TINA might have been correct.

And it is technically possible that they messed up the deduction of the $20 bill numbers from the microfile data and the DBC bill list is wrong. There is no way to track and confirm their work. Deducting bill #'s sounds really sketchy.

I think I'm having a deja vue -- isn't this how Blevins used to reply to posts -- all quoted and itemized and laid out in organized little paragraphs -- using the fire hose approach to getting his information out?  This dragged-out discussion where one is pole vaulting mouse turds -- espousing claims v. fact -- paragraph after paragraph?  It reminds of the good old days when Blevins used to do the same thing.  Tell me it isn't true -- is Flapjack a copycat serial poster?  Say it isn't so! 
Meyer

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Quote

Robert99 wrote,,

FLYJACK,

Do banks in Canada always use paper bands?  In my judgment, Tina was just saying that the bills were in bundles were held together by heavy duty rubber bands typical of what she had seen in banks in the USA.

You might be right, TINA may have meant the heavy duty wide bands, we don't know Kaye didn't use the wide style rubber bands. And banks always use their bands in denominated bundles. Just not convinced yet..

Quote

And it is absolutely NOT true that "banks always use denomination marked bands on counted bundles" in the USA.  New bills received direct from the Federal Reserve, or wherever they come from, may have paper bands.  But those paper bands come off as the bills are put into use, and while paper bands may be put on bills that have been in circulation, the bands do not necessarily include the information you specified.

Yes, they do if the bundles are counted, they are banded with count. Circulated or not. New Fed Reserve bundles have their unique band. Standard bank practice. Without them would be an exception. In large sums like $250,000 they need to be able to count the money by bundles, now it is possible they were removed for some reason.

Quote

Cooper's original statement about money was dictated to Florence [see page 23, FBI File SE-164-81] and specified that he wanted $200,000 "in cash".  He did not specify a denomination or even that it was to be "American money".

There is another more detailed thread on this, your statement is correct, but out of context. The pilots used the term US/American currency long before the destination Mexico City was ever mentioned. They are American why would they use it. But, this from FBI files "He later told TINA that he wanted $200,000 in circulated U.S. currency, two back and two front parachutes, and fuel trucks to meet the plane when it landed at Seattle." Beyond the original note he was communicating with the pilots verbally via TINA. Using "US/American currency" is consistent with a foreigner, doesn't mean he has to be but it is supportive.

Quote

Due to some previous ransom type situations, the FBI in Seattle had arranged for a local bank to have a "fund" of money set aside that was limited to three yearly "series" with the bill serial numbers recorded on microfilm in order to simplify tracing it.  When the airliner was hijacked, the bank and the FBI then bundled up the $200,000 in irregular size bundles so that the hijacker would think the bills were untraceable.  Everyone involved in the operation said the bundles used rubber bands, and not paper bands, in order not to tip off the hijacker that ever bill he had was traceable.

Now this is fascinating, the Banks had $250,000 set aside in case of these situations They had pre-recorded all serial numbers sequentially on micro. Gave DBC $200,000 and separating the $50,000. To account for the removed bills, they recorded the bill numbers for the $20 packs from the top and bottom of each bundle or 100 bills/pack = ($2000). Only $30k of the non-DBC bundles were $20's. So, they were in 100 bill bundles of $2000. They apparently went back to the micro data and removed the sequences of 100 for each bundle that had been left making up the $30,000 or 15 bundles to create a new DBC bill list. Seems like room for error there. Now, I have read the claims that the DBC bundles were irregular sizes but haven't confirmed that. Not claiming the sizes weren't altered, just haven't come across it yet. The TBAR money was 3 bundles plus some missing/spoilage/frags = $5800 that suggest regular sized bundles aka 100 x $20 bills =$2000 each. Something is inconsistent.

The original $230,000 ($20's) was in 100x$20x115 =200k plus 30k remainder
The TBAR money suggests it was in 100x$20x3 bundles=$5800 plus spoilage/frags =$6000

Was the DBC money irregularly bundled?, if so the bank denomination bands would have been removed, but if not then TINA might have been correct.

And it is technically possible that they messed up the deduction of the $20 bill numbers from the microfile data and the DBC bill list is wrong. There is no way to track and confirm their work. Deducting bill #'s sounds really sketchy.

I think I'm having a deja vue -- isn't this how Blevins used to reply to posts -- all quoted and itemized and laid out in organized little paragraphs -- using the fire hose approach to getting his information out?  This dragged-out discussion where one is pole vaulting mouse turds -- espousing claims v. fact -- paragraph after paragraph?  It reminds of the good old days when Blevins used to do the same thing.  Tell me it isn't true -- is Flapjack a copycat serial poster?  Say it isn't so! 
Meyer

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Quote

Robert99 wrote,,

FLYJACK,

Do banks in Canada always use paper bands?  In my judgment, Tina was just saying that the bills were in bundles were held together by heavy duty rubber bands typical of what she had seen in banks in the USA.

You might be right, TINA may have meant the heavy duty wide bands, we don't know Kaye didn't use the wide style rubber bands. And banks always use their bands in denominated bundles. Just not convinced yet..

Quote

And it is absolutely NOT true that "banks always use denomination marked bands on counted bundles" in the USA.  New bills received direct from the Federal Reserve, or wherever they come from, may have paper bands.  But those paper bands come off as the bills are put into use, and while paper bands may be put on bills that have been in circulation, the bands do not necessarily include the information you specified.

Yes, they do if the bundles are counted, they are banded with count. Circulated or not. New Fed Reserve bundles have their unique band. Standard bank practice. Without them would be an exception. In large sums like $250,000 they need to be able to count the money by bundles, now it is possible they were removed for some reason.

Quote

Cooper's original statement about money was dictated to Florence [see page 23, FBI File SE-164-81] and specified that he wanted $200,000 "in cash".  He did not specify a denomination or even that it was to be "American money".

There is another more detailed thread on this, your statement is correct, but out of context. The pilots used the term US/American currency long before the destination Mexico City was ever mentioned. They are American why would they use it. But, this from FBI files "He later told TINA that he wanted $200,000 in circulated U.S. currency, two back and two front parachutes, and fuel trucks to meet the plane when it landed at Seattle." Beyond the original note he was communicating with the pilots verbally via TINA. Using "US/American currency" is consistent with a foreigner, doesn't mean he has to be but it is supportive.

Quote

Due to some previous ransom type situations, the FBI in Seattle had arranged for a local bank to have a "fund" of money set aside that was limited to three yearly "series" with the bill serial numbers recorded on microfilm in order to simplify tracing it.  When the airliner was hijacked, the bank and the FBI then bundled up the $200,000 in irregular size bundles so that the hijacker would think the bills were untraceable.  Everyone involved in the operation said the bundles used rubber bands, and not paper bands, in order not to tip off the hijacker that ever bill he had was traceable.

Now this is fascinating, the Banks had $250,000 set aside in case of these situations They had pre-recorded all serial numbers sequentially on micro. Gave DBC $200,000 and separating the $50,000. To account for the removed bills, they recorded the bill numbers for the $20 packs from the top and bottom of each bundle or 100 bills/pack = ($2000). Only $30k of the non-DBC bundles were $20's. So, they were in 100 bill bundles of $2000. They apparently went back to the micro data and removed the sequences of 100 for each bundle that had been left making up the $30,000 or 15 bundles to create a new DBC bill list. Seems like room for error there. Now, I have read the claims that the DBC bundles were irregular sizes but haven't confirmed that. Not claiming the sizes weren't altered, just haven't come across it yet. The TBAR money was 3 bundles plus some missing/spoilage/frags = $5800 that suggest regular sized bundles aka 100 x $20 bills =$2000 each. Something is inconsistent.

The original $230,000 ($20's) was in 100x$20x115 =200k plus 30k remainder
The TBAR money suggests it was in 100x$20x3 bundles=$5800 plus spoilage/frags =$6000

Was the DBC money irregularly bundled?, if so the bank denomination bands would have been removed, but if not then TINA might have been correct.

And it is technically possible that they messed up the deduction of the $20 bill numbers from the microfile data and the DBC bill list is wrong. There is no way to track and confirm their work. Deducting bill #'s sounds really sketchy.

I think I'm having a deja vue -- isn't this how Blevins used to reply to posts -- all quoted and itemized and laid out in organized little paragraphs -- using the fire hose approach to getting his information out?  This dragged-out discussion where one is pole vaulting mouse turds -- espousing claims v. fact -- paragraph after paragraph?  It reminds of the good old days when Blevins used to do the same thing.  Tell me it isn't true -- is Flapjack a copycat serial poster?  Say it isn't so! 
Meyer

Meyer,

Absolutely toxic to this forum and the DBC case.

Just put me on "ignore" instead of launching personal attacks..  because you don't grasp the issue.
.

I'm toxic?  You've been here 4 weeks or so, Flytrap, you're already going to write a book, you have a mystery suspect,  and you're telling people like Georger and R99 they don't know what they're talking about.  That's disrespectful -- they know way way more than you'll ever hope to know about the case. Do your homework, get informed, read the DZ thread -- then pop off!  Your approach reminds me of someone we all used to deal with here -- and he's gone, thank God.

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Ingram find not Cooper money?

If this was true, not only would it affect the status of the Ingram find, it could potentially nullify the whole NWA/Globe/Ingram/FBI settlement arrived at in 1975. That settlement was based on the assumption that the Ingram find represented money delivered to NWA and given-lost to DB Cooper during the Cooper hijacking.

It would also instantly affect the status of the Ingram bills and their value!

   

HUGE ramifications if true, but there may some be another explanation.

Anybody,,

How can the DBC prepped bundles be irregular and "reordered" and TBAR bundles regular and in order?

Any explanations?

It could possibly come down to Carr being wrong.....

how do we even go about finding out? people from the bank alive/dead? how do we contact the insurance company, are they even in biz?