Poll

How did the money arrive on Tena Bar

River Flooding
1 (5%)
Floated to it's resting spot via Columbia river
2 (10%)
Planted
6 (30%)
Dredge
11 (55%)
tossed in the river in a paper bag
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 17

Voting closed: August 16, 2016, 09:05:28 AM

Author Topic: Tena Bar Money Find  (Read 1357836 times)

georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #285 on: November 24, 2014, 06:01:05 PM »
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Well, it seems it's down to a couple things.

1) The path could be wrong. possibly landed closer the T-Bar.
2) The dredge brought the money to the surface.
3) Cooper lost the money and survived.
4) Cooper didn't pull and cannonball'ed in the river upstream.

Anything above calls for hard evidence to convince anyone. none of the 4 can be assumed!

Another thing never published is a fairly detailed account of the first days of the excavation and what was done, prior to Palmer and the Seattle guys arriving. The Portland agents in charge during this early period literally set the plan for the whole excavation and the details of what they did and why is revealing... That early work by a few agents ballooned to over 25 agents, plus other LE, plus Palmer, and others ... all working!  I will present an outline of this soon ... if the creeks don't rise! These agents took some pains to try and determine the distribution of the money fragments across the beach going south of the Ingram find, and through the strata present. The Palmer backhoe trench was but one of many trenches dug, by hand ...
   


   
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #286 on: November 24, 2014, 06:02:35 PM »
Carr reports this in December of 2007.

There were multiple bundles recovered under 3 to 6 inches of sand, just at the waters edge (according to the Ingrams) no bricks of money. I found reference to four bundles, of which the rubber bands were still around them, there were 290 20's. I can't imagine the bundles broke from the bag and entered the river at some other location and then multiple bundles land at the same beach several miles down stream. Once in the flow of the river there would be nothing to keep the bundles together to allow several of them to land at the same beach. What I think that means is the bag had to have landed. at the beach with all of the money inside. While on the beach or just at the waters edge the bag finally snagged something that broke it open.

Once open, several bundles fell from the bag and stayed on the beach. Due to the flow of water, the bag, along with the rest of the money drifted off in the Columbia.

Define "waters edge"
« Last Edit: November 24, 2014, 06:03:37 PM by shutter »
 

georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #287 on: November 24, 2014, 06:06:02 PM »
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Well, it seems it's down to a couple things.

1) The path could be wrong. possibly landed closer the T-Bar.
2) The dredge brought the money to the surface.
3) Cooper lost the money and survived.
4) Cooper didn't pull and cannonball'ed in the river upstream.

Anything above calls for hard evidence to convince anyone. none of the 4 can be assumed!

5) Cooper made his way to Vancouver headed for Portland and was attacked and at least some of the money was lost in a struggle?


 

georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #288 on: November 24, 2014, 06:08:34 PM »
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Carr reports this in December of 2007.

There were multiple bundles recovered under 3 to 6 inches of sand, just at the waters edge (according to the Ingrams) no bricks of money. I found reference to four bundles, of which the rubber bands were still around them, there were 290 20's. I can't imagine the bundles broke from the bag and entered the river at some other location and then multiple bundles land at the same beach several miles down stream. Once in the flow of the river there would be nothing to keep the bundles together to allow several of them to land at the same beach. What I think that means is the bag had to have landed. at the beach with all of the money inside. While on the beach or just at the waters edge the bag finally snagged something that broke it open.

Once open, several bundles fell from the bag and stayed on the beach. Due to the flow of water, the bag, along with the rest of the money drifted off in the Columbia.

Define "waters edge"

The exact distance of the Ingram find from the water's edge has always been a bone of contention. ????  Did you find anything by Carr about that?

 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #289 on: November 24, 2014, 06:09:18 PM »
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Well, it seems it's down to a couple things.

1) The path could be wrong. possibly landed closer the T-Bar.
2) The dredge brought the money to the surface.
3) Cooper lost the money and survived.
4) Cooper didn't pull and cannonball'ed in the river upstream.

Anything above calls for hard evidence to convince anyone. none of the 4 can be assumed!

5) Cooper made his way to Vancouver headed for Portland and was attacked and at least some of the money was lost in a struggle?

I don't think we have any way to prove that one. that would be stuck under assume?
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #290 on: November 24, 2014, 06:17:03 PM »
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Carr reports this in December of 2007.

There were multiple bundles recovered under 3 to 6 inches of sand, just at the waters edge (according to the Ingrams) no bricks of money. I found reference to four bundles, of which the rubber bands were still around them, there were 290 20's. I can't imagine the bundles broke from the bag and entered the river at some other location and then multiple bundles land at the same beach several miles down stream. Once in the flow of the river there would be nothing to keep the bundles together to allow several of them to land at the same beach. What I think that means is the bag had to have landed. at the beach with all of the money inside. While on the beach or just at the waters edge the bag finally snagged something that broke it open.

Once open, several bundles fell from the bag and stayed on the beach. Due to the flow of water, the bag, along with the rest of the money drifted off in the Columbia.

Define "waters edge"

The exact distance of the Ingram find from the water's edge has always been a bone of contention. ????  Did you find anything by Carr about that?

It's Carr's comment about the "waters edge" the picture shows two separate area's being searched. one is close to the shoreline. the black & white photo we have put on here several times.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2014, 06:17:48 PM by shutter »
 

Robert99

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #291 on: November 24, 2014, 06:18:35 PM »
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Carr reports this in December of 2007.

There were multiple bundles recovered under 3 to 6 inches of sand, just at the waters edge (according to the Ingrams) no bricks of money. I found reference to four bundles, of which the rubber bands were still around them, there were 290 20's. I can't imagine the bundles broke from the bag and entered the river at some other location and then multiple bundles land at the same beach several miles down stream. Once in the flow of the river there would be nothing to keep the bundles together to allow several of them to land at the same beach. What I think that means is the bag had to have landed. at the beach with all of the money inside. While on the beach or just at the waters edge the bag finally snagged something that broke it open.

Once open, several bundles fell from the bag and stayed on the beach. Due to the flow of water, the bag, along with the rest of the money drifted off in the Columbia.

Define "waters edge"

Carr's suggestion as to how the money came out of the bag and stayed together seems reasonable.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #292 on: November 24, 2014, 06:26:38 PM »
Quote
Carr's suggestion as to how the money came out of the bag and stayed together seems reasonable.

Agreed, but we need reasonable proof to prove it. that's the toughest part of it all....
 

Offline nmiwrecks

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #293 on: November 24, 2014, 08:44:21 PM »
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Quote
Carr's suggestion as to how the money came out of the bag and stayed together seems reasonable.

Agreed, but we need reasonable proof to prove it. that's the toughest part of it all....
I respectfully disagree.  Everybody in that region heard the news of the skyjacking and was on the lookout for parachutes, a white bag, or bundles of $20 bills.  I can't see money laying out in the open for the lengthy amount of time it would take to become buried. 
"If you always do what you’ve always done, you’ll always get what you’ve always got." - Henry Ford
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #294 on: November 24, 2014, 09:02:02 PM »
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Quote
Carr's suggestion as to how the money came out of the bag and stayed together seems reasonable.

Agreed, but we need reasonable proof to prove it. that's the toughest part of it all....
I respectfully disagree.  Everybody in that region heard the news of the skyjacking and was on the lookout for parachutes, a white bag, or bundles of $20 bills.  I can't see money laying out in the open for the lengthy amount of time it would take to become buried.

If I'm not mistaken as to what is being said is this is some time after the crime. when the bag was finally released from where it has been previously to landing on the beach. not a week or so after the crime. possibly due to flooding.
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #295 on: November 24, 2014, 09:03:41 PM »
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Well, it seems it's down to a couple things.

1) The path could be wrong. possibly landed closer the T-Bar.
2) The dredge brought the money to the surface.
3) Cooper lost the money and survived.
4) Cooper didn't pull and cannonball'ed in the river upstream.

Anything above calls for hard evidence to convince anyone. none of the 4 can be assumed!

Another thing never published is a fairly detailed account of the first days of the excavation and what was done, prior to Palmer and the Seattle guys arriving. The Portland agents in charge during this early period literally set the plan for the whole excavation and the details of what they did and why is revealing... That early work by a few agents ballooned to over 25 agents, plus other LE, plus Palmer, and others ... all working!  I will present an outline of this soon ... if the creeks don't rise! These agents took some pains to try and determine the distribution of the money fragments across the beach going south of the Ingram find, and through the strata present. The Palmer backhoe trench was but one of many trenches dug, by hand ...
   


 

I eagerly await your report, G.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #296 on: November 24, 2014, 09:06:14 PM »
I'm open to all reasonable possibilities. we seem to have several.

Ross, In your opinion, what would happen to money, or piles of paper compressed in water protected by a canvas bag? would they become one so to speak. locking together?
 

Offline nmiwrecks

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #297 on: November 24, 2014, 10:09:47 PM »
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Quote
Carr's suggestion as to how the money came out of the bag and stayed together seems reasonable.

Agreed, but we need reasonable proof to prove it. that's the toughest part of it all....
I respectfully disagree.  Everybody in that region heard the news of the skyjacking and was on the lookout for parachutes, a white bag, or bundles of $20 bills.  I can't see money laying out in the open for the lengthy amount of time it would take to become buried.

If I'm not mistaken as to what is being said is this is some time after the crime. when the bag was finally released from where it has been previously to landing on the beach. not a week or so after the crime. possibly due to flooding.

Gotcha, that makes sense and I stand corrected.

I don't think the bills would fuse together, but I really don't know the materials used in bills of that vintage. 
"If you always do what you’ve always done, you’ll always get what you’ve always got." - Henry Ford
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #298 on: November 24, 2014, 10:13:58 PM »
We have been talking about it for years. we need to put some money out there and see what happens. if it was done the first time it was brought up. we would have info mania  ;D

I have a canal out back of my house (fresh water) I could do it there easily, but don't think it would be helpful or not?
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #299 on: November 24, 2014, 10:17:56 PM »
Currency:

The paper and ink used in the production of U.S. paper currency is as distinct as its design.  The paper comes to the BEP in brown paper-wrapped loads of 20,000 sheets (2 pallets of 10,000 sheets).  Each of these sheets is tracked by the BEP as it passes through the production process.   And, the total inventory of 20,000 sheets is continually reconciled to make sure each sheet is accounted for.  Currency paper is specifically made for the BEP by Crane Paper Company.  The ordinary paper that consumers use throughout their everyday life such as newspapers, books, cereal boxes, etc, is primarily made of wood pulp; however, United States currency paper is composed of 75% cotton and 25% linen.  This is what gives United States currency its distinct look and feel.  For denominations of $5 and above, the security thread, and watermark are already built into the paper when it is received.
 
All bills, regardless of denomination, utilize green ink on the backs.  Faces, on the other hand, use black ink, color-shifting ink in the lower right hand corner for the $10 denominations and higher, and metallic ink for the freedom icons on redesigned $10, $20, and $50 bills.   The $100 note's "bell in the inkwell" freedom icon uses color-shifting ink.  These and the other inks appearing on U.S. currency are specially formulated and blended by the BEP.  Inks headed for BEP presses also undergo continual quality testing.