Poll

How did the money arrive on Tena Bar

River Flooding
1 (5%)
Floated to it's resting spot via Columbia river
2 (10%)
Planted
6 (30%)
Dredge
11 (55%)
tossed in the river in a paper bag
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 17

Voting closed: August 16, 2016, 09:05:28 AM

Author Topic: Tena Bar Money Find  (Read 1264293 times)

MeyerLouie

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2745 on: April 06, 2017, 11:38:59 PM »
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Great video FLYJACK, thanks again.

The door placard has pieces missing. If those missing pieces didn't remain affixed to the door, what is the explanation? Just curious.

377

The Placard find lends support to the FBI flightpath.. that placard is from inside the plane.

IMO, the environment in the aft stairway was more "violent" than generally thought. The released stairs didn't lower enough and the pilot had to slow the plane down for the hijacker to get out. It would have been a struggle to get down those narrow stairs to jump in 2 chutes and dress shoes. The hijacker may have lost some of the money in the briefcase or tied up in a piece of the chute on the way down the stairs, it stayed on the stairs for a few minutes after the hijacker left and dropped into the Columbia, making its way to TBAR.

The side panels shredded.. at 47 seconds in vid



FLYJACK,

The placard find location DOES NOT support the FBI flight path.  Instead, it supports bypassing Portland on the west side, as does a number of other marks on the so-called "FBI map", witness statements, and flight crew remarks.

If the environment in the aft stairway was as violent as you suggest, no paper bills or any other light weight object is going to stay on those stairs for more than a fraction of a second.

How do you figure that, the placard was found virtually under the FBI flightpath.

The bill packets would have to have been in a container, the briefcase or tied up in a piece of the chute.
But, with the narrow stairs, side rails and panels, it is reasonable to infer that "money" could have been stuck or trapped briefly before falling.. He could have lost some as he made his way down the stairs..

FLYJACK,

You state that the placard was found virtually under the FBI flightpath.  Assuming your statement is correct, and I am not going to bother checking, then you have just proven that the FBI flightpath is incorrect.

The wind at 10,000 feet that evening was about 30 knots from the southwest and about 10 knots at ground level.  So when the placard separated from the aft stairs, it was going to travel several miles downwind, and away from the airliner's flight path, before it got to the ground.

Not so fast, I said virtually, it was within expected drift of V23..

What is clear is that its found location does not support the TBAR flightpath...

Not so fast yourself!  I am the one who made the analysis of where the placard separated from the airliner and I went out of my way to be extremely conservative in that analysis.  That means the placard travelled at least, and probably further than, the distance I calculated.

Since the FBI redacted all meaningful information from the Seattle ATC radio transcripts, the actual winds aloft at 10,000 feet cannot be determined accurately.  But even with the latest guess-estimate of those winds aloft, the placard had to separate from the airliner at a point that was southwest of the V-23 centerline.

And again, the placard find location absolutely does not support the FBI flightpath.

What is your interpretation of all those red cross marks that appear on the same FBI flightpath map?

The found location supports V23 not the TBAR flightpath.

and as for losing money on the stairway that is something that can never be proved or disproved. It is only a plausible explanation, there may be others.

The found location supports V23 not the TBAR flightpath.

How?

Flight paths are supported by avionic data independent of other considerations. !

Given the two flightpath options the placard location supports V23 over TBAR.

Be careful what you proclaim - R99 is the one who found and fixed the placard location? Maybe you are going by Kaye's location .... or your own through independent avionic research?

"Be careful what you proclaim"

Sounds like a threat.. and since I just don't give a crap what you think.. I won't respond to any more of your stupid comments.

Flight paths are supported by avionic data independent of other considerations. If that's a threat of some kind, well you have a since of imagination!  :)) :)) :))

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Flyjack,

Cool it with the name-calling....you are fairly new here and you are talking to two of the most respected Cooper experts around -- Georger and R99.  While I don't agree with some of your conclusions above, I still respect your right to have your opinions and to draw your own conclusions.  Not giving a crap what someone thinks and calling someone's comments stupid just don't cut it around here.  Please refrain.

MeyerLouie
 

FLYJACK

  • Guest
Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2746 on: April 06, 2017, 11:54:37 PM »
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Great video FLYJACK, thanks again.

The door placard has pieces missing. If those missing pieces didn't remain affixed to the door, what is the explanation? Just curious.

377

The Placard find lends support to the FBI flightpath.. that placard is from inside the plane.

IMO, the environment in the aft stairway was more "violent" than generally thought. The released stairs didn't lower enough and the pilot had to slow the plane down for the hijacker to get out. It would have been a struggle to get down those narrow stairs to jump in 2 chutes and dress shoes. The hijacker may have lost some of the money in the briefcase or tied up in a piece of the chute on the way down the stairs, it stayed on the stairs for a few minutes after the hijacker left and dropped into the Columbia, making its way to TBAR.

The side panels shredded.. at 47 seconds in vid



FLYJACK,

The placard find location DOES NOT support the FBI flight path.  Instead, it supports bypassing Portland on the west side, as does a number of other marks on the so-called "FBI map", witness statements, and flight crew remarks.

If the environment in the aft stairway was as violent as you suggest, no paper bills or any other light weight object is going to stay on those stairs for more than a fraction of a second.

How do you figure that, the placard was found virtually under the FBI flightpath.

The bill packets would have to have been in a container, the briefcase or tied up in a piece of the chute.
But, with the narrow stairs, side rails and panels, it is reasonable to infer that "money" could have been stuck or trapped briefly before falling.. He could have lost some as he made his way down the stairs..

FLYJACK,

You state that the placard was found virtually under the FBI flightpath.  Assuming your statement is correct, and I am not going to bother checking, then you have just proven that the FBI flightpath is incorrect.

The wind at 10,000 feet that evening was about 30 knots from the southwest and about 10 knots at ground level.  So when the placard separated from the aft stairs, it was going to travel several miles downwind, and away from the airliner's flight path, before it got to the ground.

Not so fast, I said virtually, it was within expected drift of V23..

What is clear is that its found location does not support the TBAR flightpath...

Not so fast yourself!  I am the one who made the analysis of where the placard separated from the airliner and I went out of my way to be extremely conservative in that analysis.  That means the placard travelled at least, and probably further than, the distance I calculated.

Since the FBI redacted all meaningful information from the Seattle ATC radio transcripts, the actual winds aloft at 10,000 feet cannot be determined accurately.  But even with the latest guess-estimate of those winds aloft, the placard had to separate from the airliner at a point that was southwest of the V-23 centerline.

And again, the placard find location absolutely does not support the FBI flightpath.

What is your interpretation of all those red cross marks that appear on the same FBI flightpath map?

The found location supports V23 not the TBAR flightpath.

and as for losing money on the stairway that is something that can never be proved or disproved. It is only a plausible explanation, there may be others.

The found location supports V23 not the TBAR flightpath.

How?

Flight paths are supported by avionic data independent of other considerations. !

Given the two flightpath options the placard location supports V23 over TBAR.

Be careful what you proclaim - R99 is the one who found and fixed the placard location? Maybe you are going by Kaye's location .... or your own through independent avionic research?

"Be careful what you proclaim"

Sounds like a threat.. and since I just don't give a crap what you think.. I won't respond to any more of your stupid comments.

Flight paths are supported by avionic data independent of other considerations. If that's a threat of some kind, well you have a since of imagination!  :)) :)) :))

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Flyjack,

Cool it with the name-calling....you are fairly new here and you are talking to two of the most respected Cooper experts around -- Georger and R99.  While I don't agree with some of your conclusions above, I still respect your right to have your opinions and to draw your own conclusions.  Not giving a crap what someone thinks and calling someone's comments stupid just don't cut it around here.  Please refrain.

MeyerLouie

What are you talking about, Georger's comment was insulting, derogatory, disrespectful and completely inaccurate..  because I believe that V23 has a much higher probability..

and you come after me for responding to that crap, I am outta here, good luck..

 

MeyerLouie

  • Guest
Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2747 on: April 07, 2017, 12:15:18 AM »
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Great video FLYJACK, thanks again.

The door placard has pieces missing. If those missing pieces didn't remain affixed to the door, what is the explanation? Just curious.

377

The Placard find lends support to the FBI flightpath.. that placard is from inside the plane.

IMO, the environment in the aft stairway was more "violent" than generally thought. The released stairs didn't lower enough and the pilot had to slow the plane down for the hijacker to get out. It would have been a struggle to get down those narrow stairs to jump in 2 chutes and dress shoes. The hijacker may have lost some of the money in the briefcase or tied up in a piece of the chute on the way down the stairs, it stayed on the stairs for a few minutes after the hijacker left and dropped into the Columbia, making its way to TBAR.

The side panels shredded.. at 47 seconds in vid



FLYJACK,

The placard find location DOES NOT support the FBI flight path.  Instead, it supports bypassing Portland on the west side, as does a number of other marks on the so-called "FBI map", witness statements, and flight crew remarks.

If the environment in the aft stairway was as violent as you suggest, no paper bills or any other light weight object is going to stay on those stairs for more than a fraction of a second.

How do you figure that, the placard was found virtually under the FBI flightpath.

The bill packets would have to have been in a container, the briefcase or tied up in a piece of the chute.
But, with the narrow stairs, side rails and panels, it is reasonable to infer that "money" could have been stuck or trapped briefly before falling.. He could have lost some as he made his way down the stairs..

FLYJACK,

You state that the placard was found virtually under the FBI flightpath.  Assuming your statement is correct, and I am not going to bother checking, then you have just proven that the FBI flightpath is incorrect.

The wind at 10,000 feet that evening was about 30 knots from the southwest and about 10 knots at ground level.  So when the placard separated from the aft stairs, it was going to travel several miles downwind, and away from the airliner's flight path, before it got to the ground.

Not so fast, I said virtually, it was within expected drift of V23..

What is clear is that its found location does not support the TBAR flightpath...

Not so fast yourself!  I am the one who made the analysis of where the placard separated from the airliner and I went out of my way to be extremely conservative in that analysis.  That means the placard travelled at least, and probably further than, the distance I calculated.

Since the FBI redacted all meaningful information from the Seattle ATC radio transcripts, the actual winds aloft at 10,000 feet cannot be determined accurately.  But even with the latest guess-estimate of those winds aloft, the placard had to separate from the airliner at a point that was southwest of the V-23 centerline.

And again, the placard find location absolutely does not support the FBI flightpath.

What is your interpretation of all those red cross marks that appear on the same FBI flightpath map?

The found location supports V23 not the TBAR flightpath.

and as for losing money on the stairway that is something that can never be proved or disproved. It is only a plausible explanation, there may be others.

The found location supports V23 not the TBAR flightpath.

How?

Flight paths are supported by avionic data independent of other considerations. !

Given the two flightpath options the placard location supports V23 over TBAR.

Be careful what you proclaim - R99 is the one who found and fixed the placard location? Maybe you are going by Kaye's location .... or your own through independent avionic research?

"Be careful what you proclaim"

Sounds like a threat.. and since I just don't give a crap what you think.. I won't respond to any more of your stupid comments.

Flight paths are supported by avionic data independent of other considerations. If that's a threat of some kind, well you have a since of imagination!  :)) :)) :))

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Flyjack,

Cool it with the name-calling....you are fairly new here and you are talking to two of the most respected Cooper experts around -- Georger and R99.  While I don't agree with some of your conclusions above, I still respect your right to have your opinions and to draw your own conclusions.  Not giving a crap what someone thinks and calling someone's comments stupid just don't cut it around here.  Please refrain.

MeyerLouie

What are you talking about, Georger's comment was insulting, derogatory, disrespectful and completely inaccurate..  because I believe that V23 has a much higher probability..

and you come after me for responding to that crap, I am outta here, good luck..

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Do what you gotta do....

MeyerLouie
 

Robert99

  • Guest
Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2748 on: April 07, 2017, 12:37:20 AM »
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Great video FLYJACK, thanks again.

The door placard has pieces missing. If those missing pieces didn't remain affixed to the door, what is the explanation? Just curious.

377

The Placard find lends support to the FBI flightpath.. that placard is from inside the plane.

IMO, the environment in the aft stairway was more "violent" than generally thought. The released stairs didn't lower enough and the pilot had to slow the plane down for the hijacker to get out. It would have been a struggle to get down those narrow stairs to jump in 2 chutes and dress shoes. The hijacker may have lost some of the money in the briefcase or tied up in a piece of the chute on the way down the stairs, it stayed on the stairs for a few minutes after the hijacker left and dropped into the Columbia, making its way to TBAR.

The side panels shredded.. at 47 seconds in vid



FLYJACK,

The placard find location DOES NOT support the FBI flight path.  Instead, it supports bypassing Portland on the west side, as does a number of other marks on the so-called "FBI map", witness statements, and flight crew remarks.

If the environment in the aft stairway was as violent as you suggest, no paper bills or any other light weight object is going to stay on those stairs for more than a fraction of a second.

How do you figure that, the placard was found virtually under the FBI flightpath.

The bill packets would have to have been in a container, the briefcase or tied up in a piece of the chute.
But, with the narrow stairs, side rails and panels, it is reasonable to infer that "money" could have been stuck or trapped briefly before falling.. He could have lost some as he made his way down the stairs..

FLYJACK,

You state that the placard was found virtually under the FBI flightpath.  Assuming your statement is correct, and I am not going to bother checking, then you have just proven that the FBI flightpath is incorrect.

The wind at 10,000 feet that evening was about 30 knots from the southwest and about 10 knots at ground level.  So when the placard separated from the aft stairs, it was going to travel several miles downwind, and away from the airliner's flight path, before it got to the ground.

Not so fast, I said virtually, it was within expected drift of V23..

What is clear is that its found location does not support the TBAR flightpath...

Not so fast yourself!  I am the one who made the analysis of where the placard separated from the airliner and I went out of my way to be extremely conservative in that analysis.  That means the placard travelled at least, and probably further than, the distance I calculated.

Since the FBI redacted all meaningful information from the Seattle ATC radio transcripts, the actual winds aloft at 10,000 feet cannot be determined accurately.  But even with the latest guess-estimate of those winds aloft, the placard had to separate from the airliner at a point that was southwest of the V-23 centerline.

And again, the placard find location absolutely does not support the FBI flightpath.

What is your interpretation of all those red cross marks that appear on the same FBI flightpath map?

The found location supports V23 not the TBAR flightpath.

and as for losing money on the stairway that is something that can never be proved or disproved. It is only a plausible explanation, there may be others.

The found location supports V23 not the TBAR flightpath.

How?

Flight paths are supported by avionic data independent of other considerations. !

Given the two flightpath options the placard location supports V23 over TBAR.

Be careful what you proclaim - R99 is the one who found and fixed the placard location? Maybe you are going by Kaye's location .... or your own through independent avionic research?

"Be careful what you proclaim"

Sounds like a threat.. and since I just don't give a crap what you think.. I won't respond to any more of your stupid comments.

Flight paths are supported by avionic data independent of other considerations. If that's a threat of some kind, well you have a since of imagination!  :)) :)) :))

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Flyjack,

Cool it with the name-calling....you are fairly new here and you are talking to two of the most respected Cooper experts around -- Georger and R99.  While I don't agree with some of your conclusions above, I still respect your right to have your opinions and to draw your own conclusions.  Not giving a crap what someone thinks and calling someone's comments stupid just don't cut it around here.  Please refrain.

MeyerLouie

What are you talking about, Georger's comment was insulting, derogatory, disrespectful and completely inaccurate..  because I believe that V23 has a much higher probability..

and you come after me for responding to that crap, I am outta here, good luck..

FLYJACK,

Just to keep the record straight, if you want to know what "insulting, derogatory, disrespectful and completely inaccurate" posts look like, you need to take a look at the Cooper threads on DropZone.  All of those Cooper threads have been locked for several years now.
 

Offline Shutter

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  • Hero Member
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  • Posts: 9300
  • Thanked: 1024 times
Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2749 on: April 07, 2017, 01:07:45 AM »
Let's not let things get out of hand guys...Flyjack has been a valued member for several years. if members are having problems with each other, lets not cause the problem to get worse by stepping into the disagreement.

I realize it's tough when we believe certain things, but we need to respect the opinions each of us have.

I have 3 administrators here that are only titles for special reasons, they are not mods. you are representing me, and I expect you show the same respect I give the members here.

Lets try to keep focusing on the case. I realize disagreements occur, I get into them myself, but I hate to see them escalate into someone wanting to leave for petty things. if things get to a point to where you don't want to comment with any given member, we have an "ignore" feature that can be utilized. nothing gets done when things like this occur, so lets get back on track and work on respective disagreements. I do not want another DZ to happen here. we are better than that!

Work the problem.....

Shutter

« Last Edit: April 07, 2017, 01:08:15 AM by Shutter »
 

MeyerLouie

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2750 on: April 07, 2017, 03:20:07 AM »
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Great video FLYJACK, thanks again.

The door placard has pieces missing. If those missing pieces didn't remain affixed to the door, what is the explanation? Just curious.

377

The Placard find lends support to the FBI flightpath.. that placard is from inside the plane.

IMO, the environment in the aft stairway was more "violent" than generally thought. The released stairs didn't lower enough and the pilot had to slow the plane down for the hijacker to get out. It would have been a struggle to get down those narrow stairs to jump in 2 chutes and dress shoes. The hijacker may have lost some of the money in the briefcase or tied up in a piece of the chute on the way down the stairs, it stayed on the stairs for a few minutes after the hijacker left and dropped into the Columbia, making its way to TBAR.

The side panels shredded.. at 47 seconds in vid



FLYJACK,

The placard find location DOES NOT support the FBI flight path.  Instead, it supports bypassing Portland on the west side, as does a number of other marks on the so-called "FBI map", witness statements, and flight crew remarks.

If the environment in the aft stairway was as violent as you suggest, no paper bills or any other light weight object is going to stay on those stairs for more than a fraction of a second.

How do you figure that, the placard was found virtually under the FBI flightpath.

The bill packets would have to have been in a container, the briefcase or tied up in a piece of the chute.
But, with the narrow stairs, side rails and panels, it is reasonable to infer that "money" could have been stuck or trapped briefly before falling.. He could have lost some as he made his way down the stairs..

FLYJACK,

You state that the placard was found virtually under the FBI flightpath.  Assuming your statement is correct, and I am not going to bother checking, then you have just proven that the FBI flightpath is incorrect.

The wind at 10,000 feet that evening was about 30 knots from the southwest and about 10 knots at ground level.  So when the placard separated from the aft stairs, it was going to travel several miles downwind, and away from the airliner's flight path, before it got to the ground.

Not so fast, I said virtually, it was within expected drift of V23..

What is clear is that its found location does not support the TBAR flightpath...

Not so fast yourself!  I am the one who made the analysis of where the placard separated from the airliner and I went out of my way to be extremely conservative in that analysis.  That means the placard travelled at least, and probably further than, the distance I calculated.

Since the FBI redacted all meaningful information from the Seattle ATC radio transcripts, the actual winds aloft at 10,000 feet cannot be determined accurately.  But even with the latest guess-estimate of those winds aloft, the placard had to separate from the airliner at a point that was southwest of the V-23 centerline.

And again, the placard find location absolutely does not support the FBI flightpath.

What is your interpretation of all those red cross marks that appear on the same FBI flightpath map?

The found location supports V23 not the TBAR flightpath.

and as for losing money on the stairway that is something that can never be proved or disproved. It is only a plausible explanation, there may be others.

The found location supports V23 not the TBAR flightpath.

How?

Flight paths are supported by avionic data independent of other considerations. !

Given the two flightpath options the placard location supports V23 over TBAR.

Be careful what you proclaim - R99 is the one who found and fixed the placard location? Maybe you are going by Kaye's location .... or your own through independent avionic research?

"Be careful what you proclaim"

Sounds like a threat.. and since I just don't give a crap what you think.. I won't respond to any more of your stupid comments.

Flight paths are supported by avionic data independent of other considerations. If that's a threat of some kind, well you have a since of imagination!  :)) :)) :))

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Flyjack,

Cool it with the name-calling....you are fairly new here and you are talking to two of the most respected Cooper experts around -- Georger and R99.  While I don't agree with some of your conclusions above, I still respect your right to have your opinions and to draw your own conclusions.  Not giving a crap what someone thinks and calling someone's comments stupid just don't cut it around here.  Please refrain.

MeyerLouie

What are you talking about, Georger's comment was insulting, derogatory, disrespectful and completely inaccurate..  because I believe that V23 has a much higher probability..

and you come after me for responding to that crap, I am outta here, good luck..

FLYJACK,

Just to keep the record straight, if you want to know what "insulting, derogatory, disrespectful and completely inaccurate" posts look like, you need to take a look at the Cooper threads on DropZone.  All of those Cooper threads have been locked for several years now.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That's the DropZone, that's the way it was, but that isn't how things work around here.  Same request, please refrain.

MeyerLouie
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2751 on: April 07, 2017, 09:01:51 AM »
I like Flyjack, and hope he continues to contribute to this forum. he's always thinking outside the box. sure, sometimes he gets out there, but who doesn't? we need to work as a team, it's one of the reasons that I broke off of the DZ in the first place, other than Blevins, and Jo....

I've had a lot of distractions lately that has taken me away from this forum for a while now. I want to get back on track, but I don't want to spend my time patching things up.

I have been working offline with Meyer trying to get the Tina Bar project off the ground. he has stepped up to the plate and I greatly appreciate all his efforts and time. we have to wait until the flood season is over in order to get the project moving. the tides are too high for anything to begin. my only concern at the moment is the rubber bands. the ones Tom Kaye gave me a couple years ago are failing. I emailed Tom about getting more, but he said the same thing. the bottom line here is the Alliance Rubber Company needs to be contacted to get more rubber bands. with the tide issue going on this gives us more time to get the bands. everything else is ready to go. these are things we need to be commenting about vs arguing over topics.

If you want to know how much Tina bar has eroded, you need to go to the location to see first hand. there is no beach at the moment like you have seen in the 1980 reports. Meyer would need scuba gear to bury anything. this means next year the location will be under water for this period. this is also the problem on Caterpillar island were the project will be. we will keep everyone updated on this project once the tides start to get back to normal...

Shutter



« Last Edit: April 07, 2017, 09:06:37 AM by Shutter »
 

Offline Kermit

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2752 on: April 08, 2017, 12:30:52 PM »
I have spent most of my life in the Portland area. I can attest to quite a few floods over the years. I had a boat and spent many a days skiing and fishing the mighty Columbia River and of course the Willamette that divides Portland East side and West side. Tides can affect the river flow in both rivers. I have no idea how part of Cooper's money ended up at Tina's Bar but I am open to any theories! However it does seem difficult to come up with any proof one way or the other as to what actually happened to cause part of his loot to end up on Tina's Bar.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2753 on: April 08, 2017, 01:55:07 PM »
Much like the rest of the case, Tbar leaves a lot of questions more than answers. we have the highly disputed dredge theory, and a possibility of an alternate flight path. I'm hoping to get some answers with the testing once the tides settle down... O0
 

georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2754 on: April 08, 2017, 03:28:59 PM »
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I have spent most of my life in the Portland area. I can attest to quite a few floods over the years. I had a boat and spent many a days skiing and fishing the mighty Columbia River and of course the Willamette that divides Portland East side and West side. Tides can affect the river flow in both rivers. I have no idea how part of Cooper's money ended up at Tina's Bar but I am open to any theories! However it does seem difficult to come up with any proof one way or the other as to what actually happened to cause part of his loot to end up on Tina's Bar.

One question the FBI and Kaye tried to answer was: where did the money spend it's time between Nov 71 and Feb 1980. So, sediments on and in-between the bills were examined (mainly by the FBI). One theory in 1980 was that the money had spent years in the Washougal River basin then washed down into the Columbia in 1979 or early 1980. But the Washougal River basin is geologically different from the Columbia Basin. The FBI lab analysis found an absence of Washougal type sand and geological products and sand and geological types only consistent with the Columbia River geology in the area that includes Tina Bar. Tom Kaye's later examination failed to find anything in his bills suggesting that the bills had spent time in the Washougal geological region. The FBI noted in it's report that the sand types found in the money were very specific to Columbia River sand types, only.

That result raises a dilemma of just how Cooper money wound up in the Columbia basin when the FBI account has Cooper jumping with the money so many miles north of the Columbia River. Nobody to date has been able to resolve this paradox.
     
 
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Offline Kermit

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2755 on: April 08, 2017, 07:01:48 PM »
I can try my best to be logical and I find I can find a number of logical reasons to support both sides of whether Cooper survived the jump as well of a number of logical reasons to support the theory that he perished in the jump. I think it would be interesting to see other's opinions both ways and see what are the holes in each side of the theories. A friendly non combative discussion might actually help make some progress in solving this 45 year old mystery. There is nothing wrong with seeing both sides !
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2756 on: April 08, 2017, 07:15:04 PM »
What can drive you up a wall is the fact of these theories go against the known evidence in one way, or the the other..

The dredge theory can state that the plane flew over the Columbia, this is a fact, and it was up stream from Tbar. this would specify that the timing was off on the jump. the dredge placed sand from the bottom of the river right onto the crime scene. fragments were found at different depths suggesting a possibility of shredded currency was pushed around while the sand was distributed on the beach...

R99's theory puts the flight path completely off course to the known flight path, but makes a lot of sense by diverting away from populated area's causing Cooper to land somewhere near Tbar... (no pull)

I just don't know...... :'(
 

Offline Kermit

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2757 on: April 08, 2017, 08:02:39 PM »
I have a problem with the "known flight path " statement. I think nobody knows for certain where the flight path actually was 100 %. I'm a Math person and I actually think the location of the flight could be proven thanks to the location of the placard. Lots of variables would have to be taken into consideration like the elevation placard was found, the elevation of airplane, approx wind and direction and of course the exact location where the placard was found. I understand there was a simulation done but I'd like to see a replica of the placard dropped from a plane at the correct height on a day when the wind direction and velocity duplicates the wind on day of jump. I know it sounds complicated but it's simple Math. The drift of placard from drop position would tell you pretty accurately where the airplane was flying when the stairs were lowered. I realize this doesn't prove where the plane crossed the Columbia River but it could easily narrow the path of flt 305.
 

georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2758 on: April 08, 2017, 11:40:51 PM »
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I can try my best to be logical and I find I can find a number of logical reasons to support both sides of whether Cooper survived the jump as well of a number of logical reasons to support the theory that he perished in the jump. I think it would be interesting to see other's opinions both ways and see what are the holes in each side of the theories. A friendly non combative discussion might actually help make some progress in solving this 45 year old mystery. There is nothing wrong with seeing both sides !

Im going to reply without even reading posts below yours -

A cousin of mine who was in the Sherrif's Dept at Portland at the time the Ingram find surfaced, was 100% convinced the Ingram find meant Cooper had survived and at least made it to Vancouver, trying to get back to Portland? He said given the info they had on the case at the time left no other choice. He said other officers felt likewise; that it was an open-and-shut matter as far as they were concerned. Finding Cooper money at all on the Columbia on the Vancouver side lead to no other conclusion. He thought the FBI's Washougal theory was nonsense meant to cover the fact Cooper survived.  .... he never changed his opinion.     
 

georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2759 on: April 08, 2017, 11:46:43 PM »
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What can drive you up a wall is the fact of these theories go against the known evidence in one way, or the the other..

The dredge theory can state that the plane flew over the Columbia, this is a fact, and it was up stream from Tbar. this would specify that the timing was off on the jump. the dredge placed sand from the bottom of the river right onto the crime scene. fragments were found at different depths suggesting a possibility of shredded currency was pushed around while the sand was distributed on the beach...

R99's theory puts the flight path completely off course to the known flight path, but makes a lot of sense by diverting away from populated area's causing Cooper to land somewhere near Tbar... (no pull)

I just don't know...... :'(

Shredded currency at various depths could easily imply dredge mixing at a range of depths on the shoreline, all in one fairly small area. The tractor spreading could complete the mixing. All just up-stream of the northmost dredging pile which is going to washed north. The coincidence is almost too strong to ignore.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2017, 01:51:05 AM by georger »