Poll

How did the money arrive on Tena Bar

River Flooding
1 (5%)
Floated to it's resting spot via Columbia river
2 (10%)
Planted
6 (30%)
Dredge
11 (55%)
tossed in the river in a paper bag
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 17

Voting closed: August 16, 2016, 09:05:28 AM

Author Topic: Tena Bar Money Find  (Read 1356497 times)

FLYJACK

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2730 on: April 06, 2017, 12:29:41 PM »
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Great video FLYJACK, thanks again.

The door placard has pieces missing. If those missing pieces didn't remain affixed to the door, what is the explanation? Just curious.

377

The Placard find lends support to the FBI flightpath.. that placard is from inside the plane.

IMO, the environment in the aft stairway was more "violent" than generally thought. The released stairs didn't lower enough and the pilot had to slow the plane down for the hijacker to get out. It would have been a struggle to get down those narrow stairs to jump in 2 chutes and dress shoes. The hijacker may have lost some of the money in the briefcase or tied up in a piece of the chute on the way down the stairs, it stayed on the stairs for a few minutes after the hijacker left and dropped into the Columbia, making its way to TBAR.

The side panels shredded.. at 47 seconds in vid



FLYJACK,

The placard find location DOES NOT support the FBI flight path.  Instead, it supports bypassing Portland on the west side, as does a number of other marks on the so-called "FBI map", witness statements, and flight crew remarks.

If the environment in the aft stairway was as violent as you suggest, no paper bills or any other light weight object is going to stay on those stairs for more than a fraction of a second.

How do you figure that, the placard was found virtually under the FBI flightpath.

The bill packets would have to have been in a container, the briefcase or tied up in a piece of the chute.
But, with the narrow stairs, side rails and panels, it is reasonable to infer that "money" could have been stuck or trapped briefly before falling.. He could have lost some as he made his way down the stairs..
 

Robert99

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2731 on: April 06, 2017, 12:55:41 PM »
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Great video FLYJACK, thanks again.

The door placard has pieces missing. If those missing pieces didn't remain affixed to the door, what is the explanation? Just curious.

377

The Placard find lends support to the FBI flightpath.. that placard is from inside the plane.

IMO, the environment in the aft stairway was more "violent" than generally thought. The released stairs didn't lower enough and the pilot had to slow the plane down for the hijacker to get out. It would have been a struggle to get down those narrow stairs to jump in 2 chutes and dress shoes. The hijacker may have lost some of the money in the briefcase or tied up in a piece of the chute on the way down the stairs, it stayed on the stairs for a few minutes after the hijacker left and dropped into the Columbia, making its way to TBAR.

The side panels shredded.. at 47 seconds in vid



FLYJACK,

The placard find location DOES NOT support the FBI flight path.  Instead, it supports bypassing Portland on the west side, as does a number of other marks on the so-called "FBI map", witness statements, and flight crew remarks.

If the environment in the aft stairway was as violent as you suggest, no paper bills or any other light weight object is going to stay on those stairs for more than a fraction of a second.

How do you figure that, the placard was found virtually under the FBI flightpath.

The bill packets would have to have been in a container, the briefcase or tied up in a piece of the chute.
But, with the narrow stairs, side rails and panels, it is reasonable to infer that "money" could have been stuck or trapped briefly before falling.. He could have lost some as he made his way down the stairs..

FLYJACK,

You state that the placard was found virtually under the FBI flightpath.  Assuming your statement is correct, and I am not going to bother checking, then you have just proven that the FBI flightpath is incorrect.

The wind at 10,000 feet that evening was about 30 knots from the southwest and about 10 knots at ground level.  So when the placard separated from the aft stairs, it was going to travel several miles downwind, and away from the airliner's flight path, before it got to the ground.
 

FLYJACK

  • Guest
Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2732 on: April 06, 2017, 01:03:46 PM »
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Great video FLYJACK, thanks again.

The door placard has pieces missing. If those missing pieces didn't remain affixed to the door, what is the explanation? Just curious.

377

The Placard find lends support to the FBI flightpath.. that placard is from inside the plane.

IMO, the environment in the aft stairway was more "violent" than generally thought. The released stairs didn't lower enough and the pilot had to slow the plane down for the hijacker to get out. It would have been a struggle to get down those narrow stairs to jump in 2 chutes and dress shoes. The hijacker may have lost some of the money in the briefcase or tied up in a piece of the chute on the way down the stairs, it stayed on the stairs for a few minutes after the hijacker left and dropped into the Columbia, making its way to TBAR.

The side panels shredded.. at 47 seconds in vid



FLYJACK,

The placard find location DOES NOT support the FBI flight path.  Instead, it supports bypassing Portland on the west side, as does a number of other marks on the so-called "FBI map", witness statements, and flight crew remarks.

If the environment in the aft stairway was as violent as you suggest, no paper bills or any other light weight object is going to stay on those stairs for more than a fraction of a second.

How do you figure that, the placard was found virtually under the FBI flightpath.

The bill packets would have to have been in a container, the briefcase or tied up in a piece of the chute.
But, with the narrow stairs, side rails and panels, it is reasonable to infer that "money" could have been stuck or trapped briefly before falling.. He could have lost some as he made his way down the stairs..

FLYJACK,

You state that the placard was found virtually under the FBI flightpath.  Assuming your statement is correct, and I am not going to bother checking, then you have just proven that the FBI flightpath is incorrect.

The wind at 10,000 feet that evening was about 30 knots from the southwest and about 10 knots at ground level.  So when the placard separated from the aft stairs, it was going to travel several miles downwind, and away from the airliner's flight path, before it got to the ground.

Not so fast, I said virtually, it was within expected drift of V23..

What is clear is that its found location does not support the TBAR flightpath...
 

Robert99

  • Guest
Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2733 on: April 06, 2017, 01:54:00 PM »
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Great video FLYJACK, thanks again.

The door placard has pieces missing. If those missing pieces didn't remain affixed to the door, what is the explanation? Just curious.

377

The Placard find lends support to the FBI flightpath.. that placard is from inside the plane.

IMO, the environment in the aft stairway was more "violent" than generally thought. The released stairs didn't lower enough and the pilot had to slow the plane down for the hijacker to get out. It would have been a struggle to get down those narrow stairs to jump in 2 chutes and dress shoes. The hijacker may have lost some of the money in the briefcase or tied up in a piece of the chute on the way down the stairs, it stayed on the stairs for a few minutes after the hijacker left and dropped into the Columbia, making its way to TBAR.

The side panels shredded.. at 47 seconds in vid



FLYJACK,

The placard find location DOES NOT support the FBI flight path.  Instead, it supports bypassing Portland on the west side, as does a number of other marks on the so-called "FBI map", witness statements, and flight crew remarks.

If the environment in the aft stairway was as violent as you suggest, no paper bills or any other light weight object is going to stay on those stairs for more than a fraction of a second.

How do you figure that, the placard was found virtually under the FBI flightpath.

The bill packets would have to have been in a container, the briefcase or tied up in a piece of the chute.
But, with the narrow stairs, side rails and panels, it is reasonable to infer that "money" could have been stuck or trapped briefly before falling.. He could have lost some as he made his way down the stairs..

FLYJACK,

You state that the placard was found virtually under the FBI flightpath.  Assuming your statement is correct, and I am not going to bother checking, then you have just proven that the FBI flightpath is incorrect.

The wind at 10,000 feet that evening was about 30 knots from the southwest and about 10 knots at ground level.  So when the placard separated from the aft stairs, it was going to travel several miles downwind, and away from the airliner's flight path, before it got to the ground.

Not so fast, I said virtually, it was within expected drift of V23..

What is clear is that its found location does not support the TBAR flightpath...

Not so fast yourself!  I am the one who made the analysis of where the placard separated from the airliner and I went out of my way to be extremely conservative in that analysis.  That means the placard travelled at least, and probably further than, the distance I calculated.

Since the FBI redacted all meaningful information from the Seattle ATC radio transcripts, the actual winds aloft at 10,000 feet cannot be determined accurately.  But even with the latest guess-estimate of those winds aloft, the placard had to separate from the airliner at a point that was southwest of the V-23 centerline.

And again, the placard find location absolutely does not support the FBI flightpath.

What is your interpretation of all those red cross marks that appear on the same FBI flightpath map? 
 

georger

  • Guest
Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2734 on: April 06, 2017, 02:23:28 PM »
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Great video FLYJACK, thanks again.

The door placard has pieces missing. If those missing pieces didn't remain affixed to the door, what is the explanation? Just curious.

377

The Placard find lends support to the FBI flightpath.. that placard is from inside the plane.

IMO, the environment in the aft stairway was more "violent" than generally thought. The released stairs didn't lower enough and the pilot had to slow the plane down for the hijacker to get out. It would have been a struggle to get down those narrow stairs to jump in 2 chutes and dress shoes. The hijacker may have lost some of the money in the briefcase or tied up in a piece of the chute on the way down the stairs, it stayed on the stairs for a few minutes after the hijacker left and dropped into the Columbia, making its way to TBAR.

The side panels shredded.. at 47 seconds in vid



FLYJACK,

The placard find location DOES NOT support the FBI flight path.  Instead, it supports bypassing Portland on the west side, as does a number of other marks on the so-called "FBI map", witness statements, and flight crew remarks.

If the environment in the aft stairway was as violent as you suggest, no paper bills or any other light weight object is going to stay on those stairs for more than a fraction of a second.

How do you figure that, the placard was found virtually under the FBI flightpath.

The bill packets would have to have been in a container, the briefcase or tied up in a piece of the chute.
But, with the narrow stairs, side rails and panels, it is reasonable to infer that "money" could have been stuck or trapped briefly before falling.. He could have lost some as he made his way down the stairs..

FLYJACK,

You state that the placard was found virtually under the FBI flightpath.  Assuming your statement is correct, and I am not going to bother checking, then you have just proven that the FBI flightpath is incorrect.

The wind at 10,000 feet that evening was about 30 knots from the southwest and about 10 knots at ground level.  So when the placard separated from the aft stairs, it was going to travel several miles downwind, and away from the airliner's flight path, before it got to the ground.

Not so fast, I said virtually, it was within expected drift of V23..

What is clear is that its found location does not support the TBAR flightpath...

Not so fast yourself!  I am the one who made the analysis of where the placard separated from the airliner and I went out of my way to be extremely conservative in that analysis.  That means the placard travelled at least, and probably further than, the distance I calculated.

Since the FBI redacted all meaningful information from the Seattle ATC radio transcripts, the actual winds aloft at 10,000 feet cannot be determined accurately.  But even with the latest guess-estimate of those winds aloft, the placard had to separate from the airliner at a point that was southwest of the V-23 centerline.

And again, the placard find location absolutely does not support the FBI flightpath.

What is your interpretation of all those red cross marks that appear on the same FBI flightpath map?

What is your interpretation of all those red cross marks

or, where are FLYJACK's "calculations" ?  :))  "Could have" doesn't cut it in this mathematical arena.   
« Last Edit: April 06, 2017, 02:24:17 PM by georger »
 

FLYJACK

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2735 on: April 06, 2017, 02:34:10 PM »
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Great video FLYJACK, thanks again.

The door placard has pieces missing. If those missing pieces didn't remain affixed to the door, what is the explanation? Just curious.

377

The Placard find lends support to the FBI flightpath.. that placard is from inside the plane.

IMO, the environment in the aft stairway was more "violent" than generally thought. The released stairs didn't lower enough and the pilot had to slow the plane down for the hijacker to get out. It would have been a struggle to get down those narrow stairs to jump in 2 chutes and dress shoes. The hijacker may have lost some of the money in the briefcase or tied up in a piece of the chute on the way down the stairs, it stayed on the stairs for a few minutes after the hijacker left and dropped into the Columbia, making its way to TBAR.

The side panels shredded.. at 47 seconds in vid



FLYJACK,

The placard find location DOES NOT support the FBI flight path.  Instead, it supports bypassing Portland on the west side, as does a number of other marks on the so-called "FBI map", witness statements, and flight crew remarks.

If the environment in the aft stairway was as violent as you suggest, no paper bills or any other light weight object is going to stay on those stairs for more than a fraction of a second.

How do you figure that, the placard was found virtually under the FBI flightpath.

The bill packets would have to have been in a container, the briefcase or tied up in a piece of the chute.
But, with the narrow stairs, side rails and panels, it is reasonable to infer that "money" could have been stuck or trapped briefly before falling.. He could have lost some as he made his way down the stairs..

FLYJACK,

You state that the placard was found virtually under the FBI flightpath.  Assuming your statement is correct, and I am not going to bother checking, then you have just proven that the FBI flightpath is incorrect.

The wind at 10,000 feet that evening was about 30 knots from the southwest and about 10 knots at ground level.  So when the placard separated from the aft stairs, it was going to travel several miles downwind, and away from the airliner's flight path, before it got to the ground.

Not so fast, I said virtually, it was within expected drift of V23..

What is clear is that its found location does not support the TBAR flightpath...

Not so fast yourself!  I am the one who made the analysis of where the placard separated from the airliner and I went out of my way to be extremely conservative in that analysis.  That means the placard travelled at least, and probably further than, the distance I calculated.

Since the FBI redacted all meaningful information from the Seattle ATC radio transcripts, the actual winds aloft at 10,000 feet cannot be determined accurately.  But even with the latest guess-estimate of those winds aloft, the placard had to separate from the airliner at a point that was southwest of the V-23 centerline.

And again, the placard find location absolutely does not support the FBI flightpath.

What is your interpretation of all those red cross marks that appear on the same FBI flightpath map?

The found location supports V23 not the TBAR flightpath.

and as for losing money on the stairway that is something that can never be proved or disproved. It is only a plausible explanation, there may be others.
 

georger

  • Guest
Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2736 on: April 06, 2017, 02:49:57 PM »
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Great video FLYJACK, thanks again.

The door placard has pieces missing. If those missing pieces didn't remain affixed to the door, what is the explanation? Just curious.

377

The Placard find lends support to the FBI flightpath.. that placard is from inside the plane.

IMO, the environment in the aft stairway was more "violent" than generally thought. The released stairs didn't lower enough and the pilot had to slow the plane down for the hijacker to get out. It would have been a struggle to get down those narrow stairs to jump in 2 chutes and dress shoes. The hijacker may have lost some of the money in the briefcase or tied up in a piece of the chute on the way down the stairs, it stayed on the stairs for a few minutes after the hijacker left and dropped into the Columbia, making its way to TBAR.

The side panels shredded.. at 47 seconds in vid



FLYJACK,

The placard find location DOES NOT support the FBI flight path.  Instead, it supports bypassing Portland on the west side, as does a number of other marks on the so-called "FBI map", witness statements, and flight crew remarks.

If the environment in the aft stairway was as violent as you suggest, no paper bills or any other light weight object is going to stay on those stairs for more than a fraction of a second.

How do you figure that, the placard was found virtually under the FBI flightpath.

The bill packets would have to have been in a container, the briefcase or tied up in a piece of the chute.
But, with the narrow stairs, side rails and panels, it is reasonable to infer that "money" could have been stuck or trapped briefly before falling.. He could have lost some as he made his way down the stairs..

FLYJACK,

You state that the placard was found virtually under the FBI flightpath.  Assuming your statement is correct, and I am not going to bother checking, then you have just proven that the FBI flightpath is incorrect.

The wind at 10,000 feet that evening was about 30 knots from the southwest and about 10 knots at ground level.  So when the placard separated from the aft stairs, it was going to travel several miles downwind, and away from the airliner's flight path, before it got to the ground.

Not so fast, I said virtually, it was within expected drift of V23..

What is clear is that its found location does not support the TBAR flightpath...

Not so fast yourself!  I am the one who made the analysis of where the placard separated from the airliner and I went out of my way to be extremely conservative in that analysis.  That means the placard travelled at least, and probably further than, the distance I calculated.

Since the FBI redacted all meaningful information from the Seattle ATC radio transcripts, the actual winds aloft at 10,000 feet cannot be determined accurately.  But even with the latest guess-estimate of those winds aloft, the placard had to separate from the airliner at a point that was southwest of the V-23 centerline.

And again, the placard find location absolutely does not support the FBI flightpath.

What is your interpretation of all those red cross marks that appear on the same FBI flightpath map?

The found location supports V23 not the TBAR flightpath.

and as for losing money on the stairway that is something that can never be proved or disproved. It is only a plausible explanation, there may be others.

The found location supports V23 not the TBAR flightpath.

How?

Flight paths are supported by avionic data independent of other considerations. !
 

FLYJACK

  • Guest
Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2737 on: April 06, 2017, 02:57:41 PM »
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Great video FLYJACK, thanks again.

The door placard has pieces missing. If those missing pieces didn't remain affixed to the door, what is the explanation? Just curious.

377

The Placard find lends support to the FBI flightpath.. that placard is from inside the plane.

IMO, the environment in the aft stairway was more "violent" than generally thought. The released stairs didn't lower enough and the pilot had to slow the plane down for the hijacker to get out. It would have been a struggle to get down those narrow stairs to jump in 2 chutes and dress shoes. The hijacker may have lost some of the money in the briefcase or tied up in a piece of the chute on the way down the stairs, it stayed on the stairs for a few minutes after the hijacker left and dropped into the Columbia, making its way to TBAR.

The side panels shredded.. at 47 seconds in vid



FLYJACK,

The placard find location DOES NOT support the FBI flight path.  Instead, it supports bypassing Portland on the west side, as does a number of other marks on the so-called "FBI map", witness statements, and flight crew remarks.

If the environment in the aft stairway was as violent as you suggest, no paper bills or any other light weight object is going to stay on those stairs for more than a fraction of a second.

How do you figure that, the placard was found virtually under the FBI flightpath.

The bill packets would have to have been in a container, the briefcase or tied up in a piece of the chute.
But, with the narrow stairs, side rails and panels, it is reasonable to infer that "money" could have been stuck or trapped briefly before falling.. He could have lost some as he made his way down the stairs..

FLYJACK,

You state that the placard was found virtually under the FBI flightpath.  Assuming your statement is correct, and I am not going to bother checking, then you have just proven that the FBI flightpath is incorrect.

The wind at 10,000 feet that evening was about 30 knots from the southwest and about 10 knots at ground level.  So when the placard separated from the aft stairs, it was going to travel several miles downwind, and away from the airliner's flight path, before it got to the ground.

Not so fast, I said virtually, it was within expected drift of V23..

What is clear is that its found location does not support the TBAR flightpath...

Not so fast yourself!  I am the one who made the analysis of where the placard separated from the airliner and I went out of my way to be extremely conservative in that analysis.  That means the placard travelled at least, and probably further than, the distance I calculated.

Since the FBI redacted all meaningful information from the Seattle ATC radio transcripts, the actual winds aloft at 10,000 feet cannot be determined accurately.  But even with the latest guess-estimate of those winds aloft, the placard had to separate from the airliner at a point that was southwest of the V-23 centerline.

And again, the placard find location absolutely does not support the FBI flightpath.

What is your interpretation of all those red cross marks that appear on the same FBI flightpath map?

The found location supports V23 not the TBAR flightpath.

and as for losing money on the stairway that is something that can never be proved or disproved. It is only a plausible explanation, there may be others.

The found location supports V23 not the TBAR flightpath.

How?

Flight paths are supported by avionic data independent of other considerations. !

Given the two flightpath options the placard location supports V23 over TBAR.
 

Offline 377

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2738 on: April 06, 2017, 04:13:55 PM »
"... and as for losing money on the stairway that is something that can never be proved or disproved."

If DBC were alive he could tell us what happened.  Time is running out though if you accept the age estimates from those who saw him.

I just hate to think DBC went into the Columbia and died, but there is evidence that supports that possibility.

377
 

georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2739 on: April 06, 2017, 05:54:56 PM »
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Great video FLYJACK, thanks again.

The door placard has pieces missing. If those missing pieces didn't remain affixed to the door, what is the explanation? Just curious.

377

The Placard find lends support to the FBI flightpath.. that placard is from inside the plane.

IMO, the environment in the aft stairway was more "violent" than generally thought. The released stairs didn't lower enough and the pilot had to slow the plane down for the hijacker to get out. It would have been a struggle to get down those narrow stairs to jump in 2 chutes and dress shoes. The hijacker may have lost some of the money in the briefcase or tied up in a piece of the chute on the way down the stairs, it stayed on the stairs for a few minutes after the hijacker left and dropped into the Columbia, making its way to TBAR.

The side panels shredded.. at 47 seconds in vid



FLYJACK,

The placard find location DOES NOT support the FBI flight path.  Instead, it supports bypassing Portland on the west side, as does a number of other marks on the so-called "FBI map", witness statements, and flight crew remarks.

If the environment in the aft stairway was as violent as you suggest, no paper bills or any other light weight object is going to stay on those stairs for more than a fraction of a second.

How do you figure that, the placard was found virtually under the FBI flightpath.

The bill packets would have to have been in a container, the briefcase or tied up in a piece of the chute.
But, with the narrow stairs, side rails and panels, it is reasonable to infer that "money" could have been stuck or trapped briefly before falling.. He could have lost some as he made his way down the stairs..

FLYJACK,

You state that the placard was found virtually under the FBI flightpath.  Assuming your statement is correct, and I am not going to bother checking, then you have just proven that the FBI flightpath is incorrect.

The wind at 10,000 feet that evening was about 30 knots from the southwest and about 10 knots at ground level.  So when the placard separated from the aft stairs, it was going to travel several miles downwind, and away from the airliner's flight path, before it got to the ground.

Not so fast, I said virtually, it was within expected drift of V23..

What is clear is that its found location does not support the TBAR flightpath...

Not so fast yourself!  I am the one who made the analysis of where the placard separated from the airliner and I went out of my way to be extremely conservative in that analysis.  That means the placard travelled at least, and probably further than, the distance I calculated.

Since the FBI redacted all meaningful information from the Seattle ATC radio transcripts, the actual winds aloft at 10,000 feet cannot be determined accurately.  But even with the latest guess-estimate of those winds aloft, the placard had to separate from the airliner at a point that was southwest of the V-23 centerline.

And again, the placard find location absolutely does not support the FBI flightpath.

What is your interpretation of all those red cross marks that appear on the same FBI flightpath map?

The found location supports V23 not the TBAR flightpath.

and as for losing money on the stairway that is something that can never be proved or disproved. It is only a plausible explanation, there may be others.

The found location supports V23 not the TBAR flightpath.

How?

Flight paths are supported by avionic data independent of other considerations. !

Given the two flightpath options the placard location supports V23 over TBAR.

Be careful what you proclaim - R99 is the one who found and fixed the placard location? Maybe you are going by Kaye's location .... or your own through independent avionic research?
 

georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2740 on: April 06, 2017, 05:56:53 PM »
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"... and as for losing money on the stairway that is something that can never be proved or disproved."

If DBC were alive he could tell us what happened.  Time is running out though if you accept the age estimates from those who saw him.

I just hate to think DBC went into the Columbia and died, but there is evidence that supports that possibility.

377

Cooper money wound up in the basin, somehow, probably at an early date if the fragments at 3feet are real.
 

Offline 377

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2741 on: April 06, 2017, 07:18:56 PM »
"Cooper money wound up in the basin, somehow, probably at an early date if the fragments at 3 feet are real."

That news video sure seems to support that claim. We don't see the agents actually pluck currency chards from a depth of 3 feet, but we do see identifiable shards that have been retrieved and a trench at least 3 feet deep, so there is not a lot of reason to doubt the claim.

I really hate to think of Cooper splashing and drowning, but there is evidence consistent with (but not probative of) that outcome. I think the chances of Cooper making it out of the Columbia alive are tiny with a night parachute landing.

A water landing was a requirement for one of my USPA licenses. It ain't easy getting out of the gear even on a warm sunny day.

377
 

Robert99

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2742 on: April 06, 2017, 09:22:48 PM »
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Great video FLYJACK, thanks again.

The door placard has pieces missing. If those missing pieces didn't remain affixed to the door, what is the explanation? Just curious.

377

The Placard find lends support to the FBI flightpath.. that placard is from inside the plane.

IMO, the environment in the aft stairway was more "violent" than generally thought. The released stairs didn't lower enough and the pilot had to slow the plane down for the hijacker to get out. It would have been a struggle to get down those narrow stairs to jump in 2 chutes and dress shoes. The hijacker may have lost some of the money in the briefcase or tied up in a piece of the chute on the way down the stairs, it stayed on the stairs for a few minutes after the hijacker left and dropped into the Columbia, making its way to TBAR.

The side panels shredded.. at 47 seconds in vid



FLYJACK,

The placard find location DOES NOT support the FBI flight path.  Instead, it supports bypassing Portland on the west side, as does a number of other marks on the so-called "FBI map", witness statements, and flight crew remarks.

If the environment in the aft stairway was as violent as you suggest, no paper bills or any other light weight object is going to stay on those stairs for more than a fraction of a second.

How do you figure that, the placard was found virtually under the FBI flightpath.

The bill packets would have to have been in a container, the briefcase or tied up in a piece of the chute.
But, with the narrow stairs, side rails and panels, it is reasonable to infer that "money" could have been stuck or trapped briefly before falling.. He could have lost some as he made his way down the stairs..

FLYJACK,

You state that the placard was found virtually under the FBI flightpath.  Assuming your statement is correct, and I am not going to bother checking, then you have just proven that the FBI flightpath is incorrect.

The wind at 10,000 feet that evening was about 30 knots from the southwest and about 10 knots at ground level.  So when the placard separated from the aft stairs, it was going to travel several miles downwind, and away from the airliner's flight path, before it got to the ground.

Not so fast, I said virtually, it was within expected drift of V23..

What is clear is that its found location does not support the TBAR flightpath...

Not so fast yourself!  I am the one who made the analysis of where the placard separated from the airliner and I went out of my way to be extremely conservative in that analysis.  That means the placard travelled at least, and probably further than, the distance I calculated.

Since the FBI redacted all meaningful information from the Seattle ATC radio transcripts, the actual winds aloft at 10,000 feet cannot be determined accurately.  But even with the latest guess-estimate of those winds aloft, the placard had to separate from the airliner at a point that was southwest of the V-23 centerline.

And again, the placard find location absolutely does not support the FBI flightpath.

What is your interpretation of all those red cross marks that appear on the same FBI flightpath map?

The found location supports V23 not the TBAR flightpath.

and as for losing money on the stairway that is something that can never be proved or disproved. It is only a plausible explanation, there may be others.

The found location supports V23 not the TBAR flightpath.

How?

Flight paths are supported by avionic data independent of other considerations. !

Given the two flightpath options the placard location supports V23 over TBAR.

Be careful what you proclaim - R99 is the one who found and fixed the placard location? Maybe you are going by Kaye's location .... or your own through independent avionic research?

Actually, it was Tom Kaye who got the GPS coordinates for the placard location.  Tom has told me that the family of the original finders took him to the exact spot where the placard was found and he then recorded the coordinates.
 

FLYJACK

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2743 on: April 06, 2017, 09:54:34 PM »
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Great video FLYJACK, thanks again.

The door placard has pieces missing. If those missing pieces didn't remain affixed to the door, what is the explanation? Just curious.

377

The Placard find lends support to the FBI flightpath.. that placard is from inside the plane.

IMO, the environment in the aft stairway was more "violent" than generally thought. The released stairs didn't lower enough and the pilot had to slow the plane down for the hijacker to get out. It would have been a struggle to get down those narrow stairs to jump in 2 chutes and dress shoes. The hijacker may have lost some of the money in the briefcase or tied up in a piece of the chute on the way down the stairs, it stayed on the stairs for a few minutes after the hijacker left and dropped into the Columbia, making its way to TBAR.

The side panels shredded.. at 47 seconds in vid



FLYJACK,

The placard find location DOES NOT support the FBI flight path.  Instead, it supports bypassing Portland on the west side, as does a number of other marks on the so-called "FBI map", witness statements, and flight crew remarks.

If the environment in the aft stairway was as violent as you suggest, no paper bills or any other light weight object is going to stay on those stairs for more than a fraction of a second.

How do you figure that, the placard was found virtually under the FBI flightpath.

The bill packets would have to have been in a container, the briefcase or tied up in a piece of the chute.
But, with the narrow stairs, side rails and panels, it is reasonable to infer that "money" could have been stuck or trapped briefly before falling.. He could have lost some as he made his way down the stairs..

FLYJACK,

You state that the placard was found virtually under the FBI flightpath.  Assuming your statement is correct, and I am not going to bother checking, then you have just proven that the FBI flightpath is incorrect.

The wind at 10,000 feet that evening was about 30 knots from the southwest and about 10 knots at ground level.  So when the placard separated from the aft stairs, it was going to travel several miles downwind, and away from the airliner's flight path, before it got to the ground.

Not so fast, I said virtually, it was within expected drift of V23..

What is clear is that its found location does not support the TBAR flightpath...

Not so fast yourself!  I am the one who made the analysis of where the placard separated from the airliner and I went out of my way to be extremely conservative in that analysis.  That means the placard travelled at least, and probably further than, the distance I calculated.

Since the FBI redacted all meaningful information from the Seattle ATC radio transcripts, the actual winds aloft at 10,000 feet cannot be determined accurately.  But even with the latest guess-estimate of those winds aloft, the placard had to separate from the airliner at a point that was southwest of the V-23 centerline.

And again, the placard find location absolutely does not support the FBI flightpath.

What is your interpretation of all those red cross marks that appear on the same FBI flightpath map?

The found location supports V23 not the TBAR flightpath.

and as for losing money on the stairway that is something that can never be proved or disproved. It is only a plausible explanation, there may be others.

The found location supports V23 not the TBAR flightpath.

How?

Flight paths are supported by avionic data independent of other considerations. !

Given the two flightpath options the placard location supports V23 over TBAR.

Be careful what you proclaim - R99 is the one who found and fixed the placard location? Maybe you are going by Kaye's location .... or your own through independent avionic research?

"Be careful what you proclaim"

Sounds like a threat.. and since I just don't give a crap what you think.. I won't respond to any more of your stupid comments.
 

georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2744 on: April 06, 2017, 11:22:30 PM »
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Great video FLYJACK, thanks again.

The door placard has pieces missing. If those missing pieces didn't remain affixed to the door, what is the explanation? Just curious.

377

The Placard find lends support to the FBI flightpath.. that placard is from inside the plane.

IMO, the environment in the aft stairway was more "violent" than generally thought. The released stairs didn't lower enough and the pilot had to slow the plane down for the hijacker to get out. It would have been a struggle to get down those narrow stairs to jump in 2 chutes and dress shoes. The hijacker may have lost some of the money in the briefcase or tied up in a piece of the chute on the way down the stairs, it stayed on the stairs for a few minutes after the hijacker left and dropped into the Columbia, making its way to TBAR.

The side panels shredded.. at 47 seconds in vid



FLYJACK,

The placard find location DOES NOT support the FBI flight path.  Instead, it supports bypassing Portland on the west side, as does a number of other marks on the so-called "FBI map", witness statements, and flight crew remarks.

If the environment in the aft stairway was as violent as you suggest, no paper bills or any other light weight object is going to stay on those stairs for more than a fraction of a second.

How do you figure that, the placard was found virtually under the FBI flightpath.

The bill packets would have to have been in a container, the briefcase or tied up in a piece of the chute.
But, with the narrow stairs, side rails and panels, it is reasonable to infer that "money" could have been stuck or trapped briefly before falling.. He could have lost some as he made his way down the stairs..

FLYJACK,

You state that the placard was found virtually under the FBI flightpath.  Assuming your statement is correct, and I am not going to bother checking, then you have just proven that the FBI flightpath is incorrect.

The wind at 10,000 feet that evening was about 30 knots from the southwest and about 10 knots at ground level.  So when the placard separated from the aft stairs, it was going to travel several miles downwind, and away from the airliner's flight path, before it got to the ground.

Not so fast, I said virtually, it was within expected drift of V23..

What is clear is that its found location does not support the TBAR flightpath...

Not so fast yourself!  I am the one who made the analysis of where the placard separated from the airliner and I went out of my way to be extremely conservative in that analysis.  That means the placard travelled at least, and probably further than, the distance I calculated.

Since the FBI redacted all meaningful information from the Seattle ATC radio transcripts, the actual winds aloft at 10,000 feet cannot be determined accurately.  But even with the latest guess-estimate of those winds aloft, the placard had to separate from the airliner at a point that was southwest of the V-23 centerline.

And again, the placard find location absolutely does not support the FBI flightpath.

What is your interpretation of all those red cross marks that appear on the same FBI flightpath map?

The found location supports V23 not the TBAR flightpath.

and as for losing money on the stairway that is something that can never be proved or disproved. It is only a plausible explanation, there may be others.

The found location supports V23 not the TBAR flightpath.

How?

Flight paths are supported by avionic data independent of other considerations. !

Given the two flightpath options the placard location supports V23 over TBAR.

Be careful what you proclaim - R99 is the one who found and fixed the placard location? Maybe you are going by Kaye's location .... or your own through independent avionic research?

"Be careful what you proclaim"

Sounds like a threat.. and since I just don't give a crap what you think.. I won't respond to any more of your stupid comments.

Flight paths are supported by avionic data independent of other considerations. If that's a threat of some kind, well you have a since of imagination!  :)) :)) :))