I spoke with Brian at some length at the Portland symposium trying to see if anything he recalled hinted that he may have been pointed, even very subtly, to the dig site by his folks. I found nothing in his recollection that indicated he was guided to the site. But it was long ago, he was just a young kid and may have been unaware of subtle hints or arranged positioning.

I still find it amazing that he uncovered the money completely by chance on a random first dig. Of course its possible, just seems low probability.

I may be wrong, I'm not a sophisticated statistician, but my gut tells me you could have put 500 kids out there, serially one by one so they wouldn't influence each other,  told each to prep a campfire site, and not one would have uncovered the loot.

377

I spoke with Brian at some length at the Portland symposium trying to see if anything he recalled hinted that he may have been pointed, even very subtly, to the dig site by his folks. I found nothing in his recollection that indicated he was guided to the site. But it was long ago, he was just a young kid and may have been unaware of subtle hints or arranged positioning.

I still find it amazing that he uncovered the money completely by chance on a random first dig. Of course its possible, just seems low probability.

I may be wrong, I'm not a sophisticated statistician, but my gut tells me you could have put 500 kids out there, serially one by one so they wouldn't influence each other,  told each to prep a campfire site, and not one would have uncovered the loot.

377

At first glance it looks like winning the lottery. I have a feeling if we had more facts, it might not be as remote as it seems. "More facts" includes a whole slate of things from how much money (in bundles) was buried on the beach, the distribution, the time-erosion factor involved, how the money got there in the first place, etc ... its facts like these that reduce it from a purely random probability to an event waiting to happen with a larger probability of happening.

There are rumors that other money had been found.

I had a similar thing happen to me as a child. I found a long lost family ring that had been sitting on a table cloth which was taken out and shaken unknowingly to other family members, one Sunday, before I was born. Decades passed after the event. My friends and I were playing football one day, across the road from our house,  the ball got kicked and traveled across the road and to the back of our property ... I ran back to get the ball out of some bushes and when I bent down in the bushes to get the ball, here was the lost family ring sitting in the dirt, (shinning in the sunlight) right next to the ball. I knew immediately what I had found because of family stories. I took the ring in to my mother and she was astounded and pleased. The ring had washed all the way from the front of the house clear to the back of our property along a small drainage furrow next to a hedge and a driveway, probably by successive rain and snow over the years. Sooner or later there was a fairly high probability that with kids playing in that area of our property including looking for shiny pebbles in that rain washed furrow over generations, that ring was going to be found by somebody, if it was near enough the surface to see. The Ingram money may be a similar circumstance.

           

The ring had washed all the way from the front of the house clear to the back of our property along a small drainage furrow next to a hedge and a driveway, probably by successive rain and snow over the years.

Georger's own Washougal Washdown theory. 

Sooner or later there was a fairly high probability that with kids playing in that area of our property including looking for shiny pebbles in that rain washed furrow over generations, that ring was going to be found by somebody, if it was near enough the surface to see. The Ingram money may be a similar circumstance.

One BIG difference. There was nothing (according to Brian Ingram) protruding above the surface at Tina bar to lure a finder.

377

His story is he was 'sweeping out an area to build a fire and' ... or ... 'Wait a minute daddy and the boy got down on his knees and moved sand aside to clear a place for Harold to set the wood. As he did this the boy turned up three bundles of money wrapped with rubber bands. The money was just below the surface of the sand. The boy picked up the money and they looked at it...' or ... 'I swept some sand aside to build a fire and noticed a lump and me and Denise dug at it to pull it out and it was money' .... or ... 'The heavens opened and Cooper spoke to me saying, "Dig here" and we dug and the Lord delivered' ... or ... 'The were moving sand to build a fire pit and noticed something and the father came over to see and they dug a bit more and pulled one piece out, then they dug some more and pulled more out' .... or ... 'and they dug in other areas to see if anything was there too' ... or ...

There doesnt have to be something protruding? All there has to be is human activity over an area that is already eroding and changing its profiles for years and sooner or later things below the surface are going to be exposed. The key is human activity and change. It's covered in 'Innumeracy' by John Allen Paulos.

And, money was there to be found, in the first place. The actions of the Ingrams as they were observed supports a random act of discovery. You could call it something more than the Ingram's Washougal Washdown Theory! 
   




 

G wrote: Apparently you dont believe my account and that's fine.

You really read me wrong G. I believe your account 100%. I have never accused you of lying about anything.

G wrote: Had he been coerced he would remember that. Nobody that saw the Ingrams that day thought anything unusual was going on.

You missed my point Georger. I wasn't suggesting coercion. I think parents could EASILY subtly influence a young kid to dig in a certain spot with the kid realizing it.

I have no proof that the Ingrams planted the money. ZERO. Never suggested otherwise. If there was indeed a broad field of currency shards then it eliminates that possibility. I have yet to be convinced that such a chard field really was there.

What's your current opinion about the chard field?

377

Tina Bar and Who Was There?

This just in from Galen:

From BAS:
I'd like to post this on the Forum, Galen, unless you'd like to. I think the
info is worthy to mention at this time, even though your contacts with
the teens has been discussed and written about at length.

The guys who were on the beach when the Ingrams found the money - what
did they say?

BAS


On 6/1/2016 2:52 PM, galen cook wrote:
> B:
>
> As to No. 1:   True.   I've interviewed two of them, old fishermen who fished at Tena Bar since the 60's.  They were there on that day, Sunday Feb 10.
> As to No. 2:   Probably true, but I don't have the documentation to refute or admit.   However, these guy's statements to FBI about creeks is pure conjecture and speculation.
> Everyone has a different theory.  No proof at all.
>
> Money found earlier:  I have interviewed two brothers (both in Vancouver) who found shards of 20's about two months earlier, but further downstream.  They have described to me in detail the location and the circumstances.
>
> GC
>
> ________________________________________
> From: Bruce Smith <You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 1, 2016 7:15 AM
> To: Galen Cook
> Subject: T-bar
>
> Have you heard about this? Just posted at the Forum by Georger.
>
> B
>
> Previously undisclosed Tina Bar Money Find history:
>
> No.1  The Ingrams were not alone when they found Cooper money at Tina
> Bar, in 1980. A number of other people were also on site some of them
> fishing. Several witnessed the Ingrams walking and talking, then
> suddenly digging and finding the money. Several people that were there
> gave testimony to law enforcement officials, later.
>
> No.2  When the FBI arrived on Tina Bar around noon on February 12, 1980,
> following the press conference with the Ingrams at the Federal Building
> in Portland earlier that day, the FBI encountered and interviewed
> several people fishing on the sandbar. One of them was Mr. Sidney T.,
> retired and  living in Vancouver at the time. With Sidney was his friend
> Mr. Robert O., a retired civil engineer. Both Sid and Robert were very
> familiar with Tina Bar and its surroundings - this lead to a discussion
> between Sidney, Robert, and FBI agents gathering. Both Sidney and Robert
> gave Agents their view on where and how the money might have come to be
> on Tina Bar, based on their long time knowledge of Tina Bar and the
> surrounding area. Several creeks and their feeding grounds were
> mentioned. One of these creeks is a creek that Robert99 focused on
> several years ago and has been interested in ...
>
> Sidney recounted for Agents how there were rumors of money being found
> at Tina Bar a year earlier. He gave the name of one individual involved.
>
> Both Sidney and Robert were interviewed by newspaper reporters later.

Tina Bar and Who Was There?

This just in from Galen:

From BAS:
I'd like to post this on the Forum, Galen, unless you'd like to. I think the
info is worthy to mention at this time, even though your contacts with
the teens has been discussed and written about at length.

The guys who were on the beach when the Ingrams found the money - what
did they say?

BAS


On 6/1/2016 2:52 PM, galen cook wrote:
> B:
>
> As to No. 1:   True.   I've interviewed two of them, old fishermen who fished at Tena Bar since the 60's.  They were there on that day, Sunday Feb 10.
> As to No. 2:   Probably true, but I don't have the documentation to refute or admit.   However, these guy's statements to FBI about creeks is pure conjecture and speculation.
> Everyone has a different theory.  No proof at all.
>
> Money found earlier:  I have interviewed two brothers (both in Vancouver) who found shards of 20's about two months earlier, but further downstream.  They have described to me in detail the location and the circumstances.
>
> GC
>
> ________________________________________
> From: Bruce Smith <You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 1, 2016 7:15 AM
> To: Galen Cook
> Subject: T-bar
>
> Have you heard about this? Just posted at the Forum by Georger.
>
> B
>
> Previously undisclosed Tina Bar Money Find history:
>
> No.1  The Ingrams were not alone when they found Cooper money at Tina
> Bar, in 1980. A number of other people were also on site some of them
> fishing. Several witnessed the Ingrams walking and talking, then
> suddenly digging and finding the money. Several people that were there
> gave testimony to law enforcement officials, later.
>
> No.2  When the FBI arrived on Tina Bar around noon on February 12, 1980,
> following the press conference with the Ingrams at the Federal Building
> in Portland earlier that day, the FBI encountered and interviewed
> several people fishing on the sandbar. One of them was Mr. Sidney T.,
> retired and  living in Vancouver at the time. With Sidney was his friend
> Mr. Robert O., a retired civil engineer. Both Sid and Robert were very
> familiar with Tina Bar and its surroundings - this lead to a discussion
> between Sidney, Robert, and FBI agents gathering. Both Sidney and Robert
> gave Agents their view on where and how the money might have come to be
> on Tina Bar, based on their long time knowledge of Tina Bar and the
> surrounding area. Several creeks and their feeding grounds were
> mentioned. One of these creeks is a creek that Robert99 focused on
> several years ago and has been interested in ...
>
> Sidney recounted for Agents how there were rumors of money being found
> at Tina Bar a year earlier. He gave the name of one individual involved.
>
> Both Sidney and Robert were interviewed by newspaper reporters later.

Nice post. Thanks for your input Galen. Im not sure what Galen means by 'conjecture and speculation'. If he is referring to the creek theory one of the gentleman expressed then 'yes', that was the person's opinion, and opinions are subject to scrutiny.

If Galen means the gentlemen do not exist and never communicated with the FBI on Feb 14th, then from my original post I indicated that in fact the men were on Tina Bar when the FBI arrived and did have conversation with the Agents gathering - and that is documented fully.
 
<edit> In fact let me add, Richard Tosaw was aware of these gentleman, their history with Tina Bar, their presence the day the FBI arrived to excavate Tina Bar, and Richard spoke to these men a number of times over several years. That should all be included in Richard Tosaw's notes some of which I think Galen may have access to ...

I think that Galen is agreeing with your above post that the gentlemen exist and did speak to the FBI and others, such as Richard Tosaw. That is my understanding of what Galen is saying.

ok thanks ...

I knew sooner or later video of the money find would show up.....Yahtzee

Whoa!  That's incredible.  Great find!  Where did you dredge that up from?