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Posted below is Kaye's picture of Ingram at the money find location, which Kaye says has +/- 20 foot accuracy.  The tree behind Ingram is the tree Tom says he used to 'locate' the "exact" money find location by comparison with a point on the road behind the money find and Palmer's ditch all shown in FBI photos Tom saw at Seattle.

Tom also says he discovered "several continuous clay layers" in the eroded beach front, shown behind Ingram in this composite photo. Tom says these "several clay layers" are "the very same clay layer" Palmer misidentified in 1980 as being the "dredging spoil clay lump layer". Tom says this proves Palmer was wrong!

I see what appear to be several clay layers in Tom's photo? A and B ? Or is this one layer? Tom says there was a 20-30 foot loss in beachfront between 1980 and 2009 when he took these photos.

Can the clay layer(s) Tom is showing in his 2009 photo be the very same "clay lump" layer Palmer was looking at in his trench in 1980 - ?

 

I think I can see several fence posts a few feet beyond the highest land points shown in the top photograph.  Those fence posts would have to be on the west side of the containment pit.

Also, on the bottom photograph with Brian in it, the land behind him seems to be sloping upwards to his right (the left side of the picture) and some of those trees around Brian look vaguely familiar.

So I will repeat my claim that Tom got the GPS coordinates right ( and that the yellow pins on some of the pictures are wrong) and that Meyer Louie and I were at the correct point (at least at the water's edge, as close as we could get) in 2013. That point is within the penciled circles shown on the aerial photographs from the FBI.

 

This containment pit - arrow point to ?

Would the fence be on the east or west side of the road?

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Posted below is Kaye's picture of Ingram at the money find location, which Kaye says has +/- 20 foot accuracy.  The tree behind Ingram is the tree Tom says he used to 'locate' the "exact" money find location by comparison with a point on the road behind the money find and Palmer's ditch all shown in FBI photos Tom saw at Seattle.

Tom also says he discovered "several continuous clay layers" in the eroded beach front, shown behind Ingram in this composite photo. Tom says these "several clay layers" are "the very same clay layer" Palmer misidentified in 1980 as being the "dredging spoil clay lump layer". Tom says this proves Palmer was wrong!

I see what appear to be several clay layers in Tom's photo? A and B ? Or is this one layer? Tom says there was a 20-30 foot loss in beachfront between 1980 and 2009 when he took these photos.

Can the clay layer(s) Tom is showing in his 2009 photo be the very same "clay lump" layer Palmer was looking at in his trench in 1980 - ?

 

I think I can see several fence posts a few feet beyond the highest land points shown in the top photograph.  Those fence posts would have to be on the west side of the containment pit.

Also, on the bottom photograph with Brian in it, the land behind him seems to be sloping upwards to his right (the left side of the picture) and some of those trees around Brian look vaguely familiar.

So I will repeat my claim that Tom got the GPS coordinates right ( and that the yellow pins on some of the pictures are wrong) and that Meyer Louie and I were at the correct point (at least at the water's edge, as close as we could get) in 2013. That point is within the penciled circles shown on the aerial photographs from the FBI.

 

This containment pit - arrow point to ?

Would the fence be on the east or west side of the road?

The wire fence marking the west side of the containment pit starts at the Tina Bar gate, which is just below the white arrowhead.  This fence then goes basically north and just to the right (the east side) of the tree line that is itself on the east side of the road that goes north from the Tina Bar gate.

The "road" (it is just a dirt berm with no vegetation) that we have talked about before that leads off to the northeast starts at the very top of the picture.

The money find location is probably located (north/south direction) in the group of trees that are just north of the group of trees over which the green arrow is superimposed.  In an east/west direction, the money find location is probably a few feet west of those trees and is now under water.  And most of those trees are not there now and have either been washed away or just died in place.

Between those trees (or what is left of them) and the road is an area of wild grass as shown in the photo.  The road is several feet above the present water's edge which is in the area of the trees.  It is a short but steep climb through that sandy soil and grass up to the road. 

       

Thanks Robert99, got it! That's about what I thought.

Here is Tom's overlay. I have added a fence hopefully near the right location and elevation above the road and the Ingram find. Note Tom's slanted white line which he says is Palmer's trench. Tom says that trench is close to the money find location, but in fact it's a full 50+ feet away at its closest point. If Tom is correct in his graphic, it's weird that Palmer would dig his trench so far away from the money find itself? But Tom is relying on actual FBI photos of the dig. Hopefully his placement of the Palmer trench is correct.

Now, Palmer found a clay lump layer in his trench, which Tom says is physically connected and one and the same "natural" clay layer(s) clear up on the face of the eroded hillside, not too far below the fence in Tom's photo, and that eroded bank Tom shows is some 91+ feet "above" and away from the closest east point in Palmer's trench.

I just find it hard to believe that these two clay deposits (Tom's and Palmer's)  are one and the same given their wide separation in both distance and elevation.

Let's leave it there.     

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Posted below is Kaye's picture of Ingram at the money find location, which Kaye says has +/- 20 foot accuracy.  The tree behind Ingram is the tree Tom says he used to 'locate' the "exact" money find location by comparison with a point on the road behind the money find and Palmer's ditch all shown in FBI photos Tom saw at Seattle.

Tom also says he discovered "several continuous clay layers" in the eroded beach front, shown behind Ingram in this composite photo. Tom says these "several clay layers" are "the very same clay layer" Palmer misidentified in 1980 as being the "dredging spoil clay lump layer". Tom says this proves Palmer was wrong!

I see what appear to be several clay layers in Tom's photo? A and B ? Or is this one layer? Tom says there was a 20-30 foot loss in beachfront between 1980 and 2009 when he took these photos.

Can the clay layer(s) Tom is showing in his 2009 photo be the very same "clay lump" layer Palmer was looking at in his trench in 1980 - ?

 

I think I can see several fence posts a few feet beyond the highest land points shown in the top photograph.  Those fence posts would have to be on the west side of the containment pit.

Also, on the bottom photograph with Brian in it, the land behind him seems to be sloping upwards to his right (the left side of the picture) and some of those trees around Brian look vaguely familiar.

So I will repeat my claim that Tom got the GPS coordinates right ( and that the yellow pins on some of the pictures are wrong) and that Meyer Louie and I were at the correct point (at least at the water's edge, as close as we could get) in 2013. That point is within the penciled circles shown on the aerial photographs from the FBI.

 

This containment pit - arrow point to ?

Would the fence be on the east or west side of the road?

The wire fence marking the west side of the containment pit starts at the Tina Bar gate, which is just below the white arrowhead.  This fence then goes basically north and just to the right (the east side) of the tree line that is itself on the east side of the road that goes north from the Tina Bar gate.

The "road" (it is just a dirt berm with no vegetation) that we have talked about before that leads off to the northeast starts at the very top of the picture.

The money find location is probably located (north/south direction) in the group of trees that are just north of the group of trees over which the green arrow is superimposed.  In an east/west direction, the money find location is probably a few feet west of those trees and is now under water.  And most of those trees are not there now and have either been washed away or just died in place.

Between those trees (or what is left of them) and the road is an area of wild grass as shown in the photo.  The road is several feet above the present water's edge which is in the area of the trees.  It is a short but steep climb through that sandy soil and grass up to the road. 

       

Thanks Robert99, got it! That's about what I thought.

Here is Tom's overlay. I have added a fence hopefully near the right location and elevation above the road and the Ingram find. Note Tom's slanted white line which he says is Palmer's trench. Tom says that trench is close to the money find location, but in fact it's a full 50+ feet away at its closest point. If Tom is correct in his graphic, it's weird that Palmer would dig his trench so far away from the money find itself? But Tom is relying on actual FBI photos of the dig. Hopefully his placement of the Palmer trench is correct.

Now, Palmer found a clay lump layer in his trench, which Tom says is physically connected and one and the same "natural" clay layer(s) clear up on the face of the eroded hillside, not too far below the fence in Tom's photo, and that eroded bank Tom shows is some 91+ feet "above" and away from the closest east point in Palmer's trench.

I just find it hard to believe that these two clay deposits (Tom's and Palmer's)  are one and the same given their wide separation in both distance and elevation.

Let's leave it there.     

I have mentioned this before, but let me do it again.

Is anyone plotting WGS84 coordinates on maps or pictures that were in use prior to the introduction of the WGS84 system and not making appropriate corrections?

Offhand, I don't remember the details of the corrections but the distances along the latitude lines (east-west) shifted about 200 feet in the Portland area.  And the distances along the longitude lines (north-south) shifted about 10 feet.

Plotting points without making the appropriate adjustments could account for the confusion here.

Ah, to clay or not to clay. Perchance to be a dredged soil spoil.

It's times like this that I count my blessings that I am a journalist and don't have to figure out much of anything. I only have to tell a good story, and the Angst of Georger is a mighty fine topic.

Also, the Fog of Kaye is a delightful story, too.