Poll

How did the money arrive on Tena Bar

River Flooding
1 (5%)
Floated to it's resting spot via Columbia river
2 (10%)
Planted
6 (30%)
Dredge
11 (55%)
tossed in the river in a paper bag
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 17

Voting closed: August 16, 2016, 09:05:28 AM

Author Topic: Tena Bar Money Find  (Read 1344954 times)

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #1755 on: January 08, 2016, 12:07:02 PM »
Is this the photo you wanted me to post?
 

georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #1756 on: January 08, 2016, 12:13:33 PM »
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It was impossible to be inside the circle.

1) to close to the spoil.
2) Most important...it's before the diagonal line clearly seen in other photo's.
3) It's just plain and simply to far south...

OK. So where in blazes do Tom;s coords go? "The GPS position of the recovered money find was determined to be at: lat. 45.717888, long. -122.759500"

Do his cords go inside the FBI circle or at his yellow pin location?


 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #1757 on: January 08, 2016, 12:18:20 PM »
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It was impossible to be inside the circle.

1) to close to the spoil.
2) Most important...it's before the diagonal line clearly seen in other photo's.
3) It's just plain and simply to far south...

OK. So where in blazes do Tom;s coords go? "The GPS position of the recovered money find was determined to be at: lat. 45.717888, long. -122.759500"

Do his cords go inside the FBI circle or at his yellow pin location?


Ok, let me see if I can use those cords, and put together a 74 map, and today's map....
 

Robert99

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #1758 on: January 08, 2016, 12:29:44 PM »
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It was impossible to be inside the circle.

1) to close to the spoil.
2) Most important...it's before the diagonal line clearly seen in other photo's.
3) It's just plain and simply to far south...

OK. So where in blazes do Tom;s coords go? "The GPS position of the recovered money find was determined to be at: lat. 45.717888, long. -122.759500"

Do his cords go inside the FBI circle or at his yellow pin location?

To repeat, Tom's coordinates go inside those pencil circles and they are consistent with pictures taken of the FBI agents during their digging operations.

The elevation of the ground where the yellow pin is located is about 20 feet above sea level and the money was found at an elevation of only about 10-12 feet above sea level.  The elevation of the river water surface was approximately 5 feet above sea level on Tuesday, February 12th, 1980, the first day the FBI was at Tina Bar.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #1759 on: January 08, 2016, 01:55:12 PM »
I'm working on maps at the moment....
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #1760 on: January 08, 2016, 03:13:58 PM »
I believe the cords are close, but not close enough.

I have several maps from different years showing the changes with the area. we still have landmarks to identify positions.

The purple lines offshore indicate the helicopters location while filming.
The red lines indicate the diagonal line/road visible in several photo's, but some I had to position them (no longer there)
The brown half circle is my attempt of the north spoil.
I circled where I believe tree's still exist.

The key is where the diagonal line is. north of that is where the action was going on. the digging did not go past that diagonal line, or south of it. the 1974 photo shows the north spoil ending around the diagonal line. everything was above that point.

I believe it's possible the location is underwater. (erosion) I think the cords are off by 100+ feet to far south IMO.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #1761 on: January 08, 2016, 03:21:47 PM »
This photo shows where I believe the cords put the money find..it goes south of the diagonal line....or close to the road/line..

Quote
Do his cords go inside the FBI circle or at his yellow pin location?

Yes, in the upper right of the circle, but that's not where they searched for the money...
« Last Edit: January 08, 2016, 03:55:15 PM by Shutter »
 

Robert99

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #1762 on: January 08, 2016, 04:40:33 PM »
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This photo shows where I believe the cords put the money find..it goes south of the diagonal line....or close to the road/line..

Quote
Do his cords go inside the FBI circle or at his yellow pin location?

Yes, in the upper right of the circle, but that's not where they searched for the money...

Is it possible that some of these film negatives got reversed in processing?  I can't make heads or tails out of most of those photographs.  I don't see anything that looks even remotely familiar.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #1763 on: January 08, 2016, 04:50:55 PM »
It's hard to explain everything I can see. perhaps I'll do it a different way..more user friendly...
 

georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #1764 on: January 08, 2016, 05:21:59 PM »
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This photo shows where I believe the cords put the money find..it goes south of the diagonal line....or close to the road/line..

Quote
Do his cords go inside the FBI circle or at his yellow pin location?

Yes, in the upper right of the circle, but that's not where they searched for the money...

Is it possible that some of these film negatives got reversed in processing?  I can't make heads or tails out of most of those photographs.  I don't see anything that looks even remotely familiar.

Is this the photo?

Here is a reversed version.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2016, 05:22:20 PM by georger »
 

georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #1765 on: January 08, 2016, 05:28:04 PM »
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I believe the cords are close, but not close enough.

I have several maps from different years showing the changes with the area. we still have landmarks to identify positions.

The purple lines offshore indicate the helicopters location while filming.
The red lines indicate the diagonal line/road visible in several photo's, but some I had to position them (no longer there)
The brown half circle is my attempt of the north spoil.
I circled where I believe tree's still exist.

The key is where the diagonal line is. north of that is where the action was going on. the digging did not go past that diagonal line, or south of it. the 1974 photo shows the north spoil ending around the diagonal line. everything was above that point.

I believe it's possible the location is underwater. (erosion) I think the cords are off by 100+ feet to far south IMO.

So your green dot is Tom's coordinate and the yellow pin is the Ingram find ?

How do we know the yellow pin is the Ingram find? Taking Tom's word for it? Ingram didn't know where it was. The FBI never knew.   Is it even remotely possible Palmer surveyed the site but just didn't tell the FBI what the coords were? 
« Last Edit: January 08, 2016, 05:32:05 PM by georger »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #1766 on: January 08, 2016, 05:28:09 PM »
that's not going to fly  8) 8) 8)
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #1767 on: January 08, 2016, 05:29:45 PM »
I'm going to make another video. hopefully I can explain things better..

The green dot would represent the coords given by Tom, and apprx. where the location would be today.....
« Last Edit: January 08, 2016, 05:30:09 PM by Shutter »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #1768 on: January 08, 2016, 05:33:46 PM »
Quote
How do we know the yellow pin is the Ingram find? Taking Tom's word for it? Ingram didn't know where it was. The FBI never knew

The yellow pin is in the same proximity as you have the find. it's also close to the picture of Brian shown scooping the snow shortly after the find...
 

georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #1769 on: January 08, 2016, 05:48:51 PM »
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Quote
How do we know the yellow pin is the Ingram find? Taking Tom's word for it? Ingram didn't know where it was. The FBI never knew

The yellow pin is in the same proximity as you have the find. it's also close to the picture of Brian shown scooping the snow shortly after the find...

I can see that. I would agree with that. Can you give us coordinates for the yellow pin?

BTW, Dorwin says he could see where the Ingrams had dug to get the money and the Ingrams were there also to identify the location. He also says agents could see where the Ingrams had poked around with a stick and dug a few places with their hands looking for more money. The Ingrams had dropped their search stick on the beach!

I basically agree with you about the spreading of the massive amount of sediment. In addition that material was viscous and took longer than the Fazios expected to settle before they could do any spreading. The Faxios have commented about that. Tom says Palmer was wrong. Palmer found and classified a layer as the dredging sediment. Tom says the dredging sediment was all gone; that Palmer clay layer is a natural layer. Now compare the 74 and 79 USGS photos. Do you see that a remnant of the shoreline dredging bulge from 1974 is still partially there in 79? Does that mean Palmer was right and Kaye's opinion is wrong? Those dredging material bulges are still visible at the end of Sept 1979. Why wouldn't there still be dredging material there in Feb 1980, only four months later?
« Last Edit: January 08, 2016, 06:01:42 PM by georger »