Tom Kaye says, speaking about the money location vs north dredging pile:

The measurement between the center of the dredging sand and the money find is approximately 150 yards. In order for the money bundles to be washed up by the dredge, it would require them to be bulldozed 150 yards up the beach. This is 200% more than the stated and visual distances making it unlikely the money was buried due to dredging.

In other words, Tom is saying, I guess, that the money find location is too far away from the north dredging spoils pile, to have had a physical connection - association.

But is that too far away for the money to have been contaminated by the trace elements in the dredging pile?

Too far away for one. Too far away for the other?   

A few more photos that convey the basics of the dredging and find location. Notice the changes in vegetation especially in the area of the money find by 1979/80. With a loss of vegetation, the location is far more open to get into (and inspect), with an increased chance that somebody could get into that area to notice something if something was there to notice. Prior to this the area is a kind of entrapment zone. Palmer's trench was dug on the yellow line in the one illustration - the yellow dot marks Tom Kaye's gps location of the Ingram money find -
   

.....
Can anyone spot the Oregon side dredging pile on the 9/6/74 USGS aerial photo, because I can't! ?

The Oregon side location was probably selected (in part) because of proximity to the dredging location, which could have been up- or down-river from the part visible in the pic.

Keep in mind the penciled area is inaccurate......this photo is from Websleuths.





Fig. 3 1974 dredging image from FBI archive overlaid on Googe Earth. The penciled circle is the inaccurate location of the money find from 1980. The pronounced hump in the beach is the result of the dredging pipe dumping sand on the beach. The red line represents the distance sand was moved north on the beach from the dredging pipe. The yellow pin marks the recoverd position of the money find.

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Keep in mind the penciled area is inaccurate......this photo is from Websleuths.





Fig. 3 1974 dredging image from FBI archive overlaid on Googe Earth. The penciled circle is the inaccurate location of the money find from 1980. The pronounced hump in the beach is the result of the dredging pipe dumping sand on the beach. The red line represents the distance sand was moved north on the beach from the dredging pipe. The yellow pin marks the recoverd position of the money find.

The circles were never intended to be accurate, according to Larry. In fact if you look at the photos 1970-79 the
position of the circles varies - some enclose the Kaye GPS position and some don't. The fact is, I'm not even sure how accurate Tom's recovered position is. When I asked Brian if he knew the exact place where the money was found he said "No'. He said 'Tom made a good estimate'. That is basically why until something better surfaces, I take Tom's position as the best estimate to date. I don't know that anyone ever surveyed the exact location just after the Ingram's has found the money ?
 

When Meyer Louie and I paid a visited to Tina Bar in July, 2013, we used a hand held GPS to locate Tom Kaye's GPS coordinates for the money find location.  The east-west (longitude) coordinate that Tom gives is now actually several feet off shore and underwater.  But the north-south (latitude) coordinate indicates that the money was found between the containment pit and the water line as they existed in 1980.  And that point is basically in the middle of the pencil circles in the 1974 picture.

Additionally, I think the picture of about 10 FBI agents digging at the find location can be used to support the above location by comparing the objects shown on the west side of the Columbia River to their locations on a topographical chart.  Using all means to define the location, I think the paper pins are in the wrong positions.  They are to far north and the money was found south of them.  To repeat, multiple sources seem to agree that the money was found between the west wall of the containment pit and the river water.

The yellow pin on the 1974 map indicates the approximate location of an outdoor john (at least in 2013).  And the money find location is slightly north of the end of the red line.

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More money find dredging data -

The money find location is actually about the middle of the penciled circles in the 1974 photos.  The horizontal location is now under water due to severe beach erosion.

Taking the road west at the top of the "L" buildings, the dairy containment pit's "southwest corner" is at the "northeast corner" intersection of the road west and the road that parallels the river.  The find location was on the beach that existed in 1980 between the containment pit and the river water.

From Georger's last picture above, it appears possible that some of the dredged material may have been deposited close to the find location.

Also, the channel between the "mainland" and Caterpillar Island used to be described on topographical charts as mud flats.  Currently, the boat facility in that channel appears to be able to handle boats with about four or five feet of draft.  So that channel was probably dredged at some point and a good time to do it would have been in the late 1970s at the same time the Flushing Channel to Vancouver Lake was constructed.  Is there any information on where the dredged material from those projects was deposited?

The money find location is actually about the middle of the penciled circles in the 1974 photos.

What do you base this location on, above?

I am using Tom's gps location off his published chart. Note the same set of trees on photos 1970-1979.

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Keep in mind the penciled area is inaccurate......this photo is from Websleuths.





Fig. 3 1974 dredging image from FBI archive overlaid on Googe Earth. The penciled circle is the inaccurate location of the money find from 1980. The pronounced hump in the beach is the result of the dredging pipe dumping sand on the beach. The red line represents the distance sand was moved north on the beach from the dredging pipe. The yellow pin marks the recoverd position of the money find.

The circles were never intended to be accurate, according to Larry. In fact if you look at the photos 1970-79 the
position of the circles varies - some enclose the Kaye GPS position and some don't. The fact is, I'm not even sure how accurate Tom's recovered position is. When I asked Brian if he knew the exact place where the money was found he said "No'. He said 'Tom made a good estimate'. That is basically why until something better surfaces, I take Tom's position as the best estimate to date. I don't know that anyone ever surveyed the exact location just after the Ingram's has found the money ?
 

When Meyer Louie and I paid a visited to Tina Bar in July, 2013, we used a hand held GPS to locate Tom Kaye's GPS coordinates for the money find location.  The east-west (longitude) coordinate that Tom gives is now actually several feet off shore and underwater.  But the north-south (latitude) coordinate indicates that the money was found between the containment pit and the water line as it existed at they existed in 1980.  And that point is basically in the middle of the pencil circles in the 1974 picture.

Additionally, I think the picture of about 10 FBI agents digging at the find location can be used to support the above location by comparing the objects shown on the west side of the Columbia River to their locations on a topographical chart.  Using all means to define the location, I think the paper pins are in the wrong positions.  They are to far north and the money was found south of them.  To repeat, multiple sources seem to agree that the money was found between the west wall of the containment pit and the river water.

The yellow pin on the 1974 map indicates the approximate location of an outdoor john (at least in 2013).  And the money find location is slightly north of the end of the red line.

Well, if you are correct a d Tom's chart is wrong, that dismisses Tom's objections based 'distance away from the north dredge spoil site'. Let me go back and read Tom's website for the umpteenth time.  If the money find was right over the 1974 spoil pile that opens other possibilities based on other data Tom collected ... I just wish we could get this location settled once and for all. I have at least six different locations from different 'experts' who have supposedly been to Tina Bar, several more who have never been there. One contended (with a map!) that the money was found clear down on the south end of the Fazio property .... and it goes on and on.

BTW: most people seem to agree that Palmer's trench was dug just to the side (south) of where the Ingram's said they had found the money; and several agents who were there confirmed that to me.

In February 2013, Tom Kaye had the following statement on his web page in his discussion of the Tena Bar Money find:

     "The GPS position of the recovered money find was determined to be at: lat. 45.717888, long. -122.759500."

I don't remember seeing a map with this position plotted in Tom's discussion.  But Meyer Louie and I went to that position (at least as close as we could get) using a hand held GPS to determine the coordinates.

And as I have stated previously in this discussion, that position is between the containment pit and the water's edge (as it existed in 1980) and roughly in the middle of the pencil circles on the 1974 map.  These circles are labeled in your attached photograph as "Wrong/JT".

Additionally, in our lengthy discussions with "Jon", the Tina Bar regular, he made no effort at all to say that we were in the wrong place for the money find.