A couple questions for you, Fly:

1. Brian told me he and his family kept looking for more money, but didn't find any. Do you believe him?

2. After the Ingram money find and the FBI dig at T-Bar, what did the FBI do after that? Or what would you hope/expect them to do? Ask local fishermen if they had seen anything, etc? I would. You?

3. What was Dwayne wanted for in Oklahoma? I understand it was a bench warrant for missing a car payment. No?

It is common knowledge the family members said (independently in interviews) they looked for more money after the original find. They found nothing further, each said in separate interviews; and there was no love lost at the time between the adults who were hostile to each other's interests. The family was in the middle of a divorce, in case you don't know. Each side was making separate claims about the money, since you don;t know that! Why would they look for more money if they knew this was a plant and there was no more money to find? Why would they keep souvenirs if there were more bills to select from and not report? Crystal gave Harold and Pat up to Himmelsbach saying they had held money back forcing Harold and Pat to give their 'souvenirs' up. Moreover, other Ingram family members knew exactly when and where the found money had come from! They gave separate interviews to the FBI. No mention of Harold finding money at Burnt Bridge Creek. The FBI had independent testimony to check Harold and Pat's and Brian's stories out.     

You dont believe Cook when he says money was found by two kids 6+ months prior to the Ingram find?
 

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

One very good reason why the Tina Bar money didn't arrive there by way of Lake Vancouver is that there is a levee between those two locations.  And the present day NW Lower River Road is built on top of that levee.  The obvious purpose of the levee is to keep the Columbia River water and the Vancouver Lake water separate.

The Flushing Channel was apparently completed in the late 1970s and the Tina Bar money was found in early 1980.  The purpose of the Flushing Channel was to move Columbia River water into Vancouver Lake in order to clean it out as much as possible.

Vancouver Lake itself is very shallow for the most part, probably not more than a couple of feet.  There is a large earthen mound in that lake now and it was built from the dredged material.

The actual flight path of the airliner cannot be determined from the information on the maps, etc., that have been publicly released with a lot of lines, dots, and other meaningless nonsense showing.  If you don't believe me, then ask any 16 year-old powered aircraft pilot or 14 year-old glider pilot.  He/she can set you straight fast.

An excellent, but usually overlooked, reason for the money being found at Tina Bar is because Cooper impacted on solid ground just upstream from there.  But many people don't want logical reasons if others can be put forward with a straight face.

Dredged material may have been used for that levee.. and yes, there isn't any water flow to the Columbia River until much further downstream of Tena Bar. So, a transfer from Vancouver Lake would have to be via dredging operations. There is a map showing the exact locations of the 1977 pilot dredge operation and material pile.

The two sources I cited suggest that the actual flushing channel was built after the money find.

The depth in 1977 was 2 feet to a seasonal max high of 10 feet..

but there was dredging in Vancouver Lake prior to the money find, the material may have been distributed all over the area. when Lake Vancouver (a silted-in ox-bow lake of the Columbia) at Vancouver, WA, was restored, the dredged material taken from the lake bottom was used for agricultural enhancement as well as for beach nourishment, island creation, a recreation park, and spillway construction.

The type of dredge used in the Columbia River suggests that the money wouldn't have gone through it intact, however, the Vancouver Lake dredge discussion paper talks about different types of dredges. An 8 inch hydraulic suction dredge was tested in the 1977 pilot project. Don't know what was used in other dredging operations there.

The levee with the NW Lower River Road on top of it was built some time prior to 1970 since it is visible in the aerial photographs of that time frame.

It is common knowledge the family members said (independently in interviews) they looked for more money after the original find. They found nothing further, each said in separate interviews; and there was no love lost at the time between the adults who were hostile to each other's interests. The family was in the middle of a divorce, in case you don't know. Each side was making separate claims about the money, since you don;t know that! Why would they look for more money if they knew this was a plant and there was no more money to find? Why would they keep souvenirs if there were more bills to select from and not report? Crystal gave Harold and Pat up to Himmelsbach saying they had held money back forcing Harold and Pat to give their 'souvenirs' up. Moreover, other Ingram family members knew exactly when and where the found money had come from! They gave separate interviews to the FBI. No mention of Harold finding money at Burnt Bridge Creek. The FBI had independent testimony to check Harold and Pat's and Brian's stories out.     

You dont believe Cook when he says money was found by two kids 6+ months prior to the Ingram find?

Is it true that the Ingrams arrived in 79, and they had access to Tena Bar because they were friends with the land owners. They became friends with land owners in a very short period of time... Perhaps Harold buried the money for his son to find and only Harold knew, his other family members did not. Harold went along with a quick search for show.. the site would have been completely contaminated, I read a note that the FBI found some fragments/shards a few feet deeper but that doesn't discount a plant if the Ingrams dug around more disturbing the area.

The Ingram house also had a fire at that time, too many odd things going on, the Ingram story is bizarre. Going through a divorce?

Harold may have found the money elsewhere or got it from someone else and without his families knowledge planted it for his son to uncover..  and what is the connection between U-Cart concrete and the Fazio Brothers Sand and Gravel?

What happened to the plant by Harold Ingram? Are you giving up on that?

What happened to Burnt Creek. ? Are you giving up on that?

If the money was in Vncvr Lake sediment put into River Rd Levee built prior to 1970, what part of the levee washed out in what year to bring money to Tina Bar ?

Oh, and just for my information where were the hobo camps in the Vancouver Lake area 1970-1980?

No, I can entertain competing theories. Looks like Vancouver Lake dredge material could have been used for a few different purposes.


from 1973, p A126, a response letter outlining the use of dredge material and a map p A129 which marks the proposed area between Vancouver Lake and the Columbia up to Tena Bar << look at that map in the PDF, the shaded area

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

"The Clark County Parks Department is developing a park site along the west side of Vancouver Lake for which approximately 20,000 cubic yards will be borrowed from nearby stockpiles. On a much larger scale, the Port of Vancouver, Corps of Engineers and Clark County are entangled
in a proposal to dike, fill and develop for industrial purposes a considerable area in the Columbia River-Vancouver Lake lowlands.

This project would utilize spoils not only from the river but also from the bed of Vancouver Lake which is shallow, polluted and in need of improvement. Since considerable controversy surrounds this proposal it may be some time, if ever before the project can be undertaken."

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

It is common knowledge the family members said (independently in interviews) they looked for more money after the original find. They found nothing further, each said in separate interviews; and there was no love lost at the time between the adults who were hostile to each other's interests. The family was in the middle of a divorce, in case you don't know. Each side was making separate claims about the money, since you don;t know that! Why would they look for more money if they knew this was a plant and there was no more money to find? Why would they keep souvenirs if there were more bills to select from and not report? Crystal gave Harold and Pat up to Himmelsbach saying they had held money back forcing Harold and Pat to give their 'souvenirs' up. Moreover, other Ingram family members knew exactly when and where the found money had come from! They gave separate interviews to the FBI. No mention of Harold finding money at Burnt Bridge Creek. The FBI had independent testimony to check Harold and Pat's and Brian's stories out.     

Wow, Georger. This is quite a revelation. I never heard this stuff before. Let me break it down so I understand it better, and make sure I don't confuse anything.

#1. It is common knowledge the family members said (independently in interviews) they looked for more money after the original find. They found nothing...

Okay. I think I got that.

2....further, each said in separate interviews; and there was no love lost at the time between the adults who were hostile to each other's interests. The family was in the middle of a divorce, in case you don't know.

I didn't know that Brian's parents were considering a divorce. First I've heard.

3. Each side was making separate claims about the money, since you don't know that! Why would they look for more money if they knew this was a plant and there was no more money to find? Why would they keep souvenirs if there were more bills to select from and not report?

Hmmm. So you are saying that the money Brian found was planted there by the adults in the family, and they were fighting with each other about it? Plus, the so-called $5,800 or so was all they had to "bury."

4. Crystal gave Harold and Pat up to Himmelsbach saying they had held money back forcing Harold and Pat to give their 'souvenirs' up. Moreover, other Ingram family members knew exactly when and where the found money had come from! They gave separate interviews to the FBI.

What I take from this is that the Ingram family scam was blown by Crystal, who had spilled the beans to Himmelsbach. In addition, other Ingram family members not named here also knew about the scam.

5. No mention of Harold finding money at Burnt Bridge Creek. The FBI had independent testimony to check Harold and Pat's and Brian's stories out.

My understanding from what you write here is that the FBI was able to verify the scam from sources independent to the Ingram family.

Now, I've got to straighten out who all the players are: Five people were on the beach, correct?
a. Brian is the 8 year-old kid.
b. Denise, not mentioned above is Brian's cousin, and also a kid.
c. Crystal Ingram is Denise's mother, and Harold's sister.
c. Pat is Harold's wife.
d. Harold is Brian's father, and Pat's husband.

Note: I thought Brian's father was named Dwayne. Oops.

Smith go back and read the thread! Including Dropzone. None of this is new if you had been paying attention and the sources for it all previously posted - sheesh!

Beyond that I am not going to devote 500 years to answering all of your obtuse contumelies.

His name was: Harold Dwayne Ingram. Its in every article ever written on the Cooper case.

What are we going to do with you!? 

[edit] Ingram lived at 1500 Markel Street, Vancouver, Washington.

Are you now saying the Ingram family planted the money at T-Bar?

Smith if this is for me, consult your Ouijas board.

The reason I do not believe the Ingrams staged the money find is their behavior following the discovery.  Any time since the original discovery they could have easily told the "true" story and parlayed that information into some decent money (book, treatment, story rights, etc).  If they found the money in the vicinity of a body, "cha ching!" 

Another motivating factor would be fame/attention.  They seemed to enjoy being the center of attention (as most people do) at the press conference, and if they had information that would lead to the solution of this mystery, then they would receive plenty more attention for that.

The two above mentioned factors would, in my opinion, outweigh and negative repercussions of coming forth with the "real" story.