Poll

How did the money arrive on Tena Bar

River Flooding
1 (5%)
Floated to it's resting spot via Columbia river
2 (10%)
Planted
6 (30%)
Dredge
11 (55%)
tossed in the river in a paper bag
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 17

Voting closed: August 16, 2016, 09:05:28 AM

Author Topic: Tena Bar Money Find  (Read 1343850 times)

Offline andrade1812

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #1500 on: September 16, 2015, 02:35:25 PM »
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Quote
. All of the ingredients of a bomb. He demonstrates the simplicity of his device saying 'all I have to do is touch these two wires together'.


That indicates a basic explosive. if Cooper had an electrical detonator stuck in the dynamite, and the wires attached to the battery with a break in one of the wires, all he would have to do is complete the circuit by connecting the wires in his hand and BOOM. (if it was real)


He said his bomb was "electronic" vs. electrical. That's a step up.


I believe detonators that require power would be considered "electronic" or electrical?

Electronic detonators would be a handheld device that wouldn't require a battery separate from the switch. they are in the switch. Cooper seems to have had a break in the circuit from the battery to the detonator. I don't see anything else needed.

He could of added a switch instead of holding the wires, so he could of been nervous doing that, or it was fake and he did the two wires for dramatic purposes? (speculation)
Using two wires instead of a proper trigger, or even a simple switch for that matter, shows the lack of technical sophistication of the Cooper suspect.  If someone actually had access to dynamite, then they would more than likely have access to the proper trigger.  A person with military demolition training wouldn't be running around with a briefcase filled with explosives and a couple of wires with bare ends flopping freely in the case.  He would have spent a couple of extra bucks for a proper switch.  It would have looked more impressive to the stewardesses also.

I don't think the bomb tells us much about Cooper, anymore than the device used by McCoy tells us much about McCoy and his background. McCoy used a fake grenade, one of those cheap surplus casings you can get at gun shows, pawn shops, surplus stores and elsewhere. Someone could say "McCoy was Military because he used a grenade" and another person could scoff and say "You can get those anywhere, and anyone who knows anything about military ordnance would be able to call McCoy's bluff." As it was, McCoy was military, but the grenade itself would have been useless to us had McCoy never been caught, since both arguments are valid in the absence of information.

Cooper needed a prop, and so he created one that he could use to frighten people. He was trying to fool twenty-something flight attendants, not a bomb expert.

Differences:
DBC built his 'bomb' - McCoy purchased his.
DBC talked at length about the makeup of his bomb and bomb physics  - McCoy said nothing similar.
DBC showed the contents of his bomb - McCoy's grenade was unknowable.
DBC's tie shows evidence of bomb making materials - McCoy .... ?
DBC made specific military references - McCoy ?
DBC showed calm flexibility-adaptability in his handling of technical and social management issues - McCoy?
DBC was described by at least one stew as being an 'executive' (command) type.
.
.
.
     

I will concede all those points, but I'd like to note only the first one is directly about the bomb, the rest are more about Cooper and his actions than the bomb itself.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #1501 on: September 16, 2015, 06:14:38 PM »
McCoy showed a lot of sack...the guy played co-pilot, he threw chutes out the back. he bluffed them with a dummy grenade, and an empty gun, he ended up looking for himself in a helicopter :o

Like most criminals his mouth got him busted....
« Last Edit: September 16, 2015, 06:53:12 PM by Shutter »
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #1502 on: September 16, 2015, 08:18:06 PM »
..and his wife didn't help, either. Or her sister.

Not knowing where to stash the loot when they got home was amazing, too.
 

Offline nmiwrecks

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #1503 on: September 16, 2015, 08:25:33 PM »
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McCoy showed a lot of sack...the guy played co-pilot, he threw chutes out the back. he bluffed them with a dummy grenade, and an empty gun, he ended up looking for himself in a helicopter :o
And he was nervous, swearing, sweating bullets and agitated.  What does that say about the Cooper suspect who appeared to be cool, calm and collected throughout his ordeal?
"If you always do what you’ve always done, you’ll always get what you’ve always got." - Henry Ford
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #1504 on: September 16, 2015, 08:55:38 PM »
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McCoy showed a lot of sack...the guy played co-pilot, he threw chutes out the back. he bluffed them with a dummy grenade, and an empty gun, he ended up looking for himself in a helicopter :o
And he was nervous, swearing, sweating bullets and agitated.  What does that say about the Cooper suspect who appeared to be cool, calm and collected throughout his ordeal?


Regardless of how they acted it still takes balls to do what they did, but helping out looking for yourself ranks pretty high... ;) ;)
« Last Edit: September 16, 2015, 09:02:10 PM by Shutter »
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #1505 on: September 16, 2015, 10:22:34 PM »
This snippet of conversation makes me think of some thoughts I've had about doing extraordinary things. My personal experience suggests that BOLD living is best done when one is not married.

Can I get an "amen" on that?

However, the reverse may also be true. When one is unmarried, for whatever reason (ahem), the opportunities exist where one can say, "Well, since I ain't got a woman around, I might as well write a book about the FBI bungling the DB Cooper case, practice my levitation, hang out with 377 in San Francisco and look for Petey, etc...
« Last Edit: September 16, 2015, 10:35:03 PM by Bruce A. Smith »
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #1506 on: September 16, 2015, 10:29:26 PM »
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And he was nervous, swearing, sweating bullets and agitated.  What does that say about the Cooper suspect who appeared to be cool, calm and collected throughout his ordeal?


I think it says a lot, and I have given it a fair amount of weight, too.

However, after reading the crew debriefings and editing my book again to get it updated and ready for the hard copy version, a couple things stand out:

1.  Coop got agitated when the refueling took too long. One account says he banged the seat, but his agitation was sufficient to get Rataczak to "lay down the law" with the feds to speed things up.

2. Coopie got excited when the money arrived. Exactly what he did, i.e.: jump up and down like a child, giddy, etc., as has been reported by Ckret and Flo is a bit up in the air, but he did have some kind of emotional reaction.

BTW: My target date for the hard copy version is November 24, 2015! I want to bring a bunch to Ariel this year.

« Last Edit: September 16, 2015, 10:30:02 PM by Bruce A. Smith »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #1507 on: September 16, 2015, 10:48:39 PM »
Keep in mind nervous and all, he landed within a couple miles from his home. that's pretty good for flying the plane from the back...(backseat driver ;D)
 

georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #1508 on: September 17, 2015, 12:31:15 AM »
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And he was nervous, swearing, sweating bullets and agitated.  What does that say about the Cooper suspect who appeared to be cool, calm and collected throughout his ordeal?


I think it says a lot, and I have given it a fair amount of weight, too.

However, after reading the crew debriefings and editing my book again to get it updated and ready for the hard copy version, a couple things stand out:

1.  Coop got agitated when the refueling took too long. One account says he banged the seat, but his agitation was sufficient to get Rataczak to "lay down the law" with the feds to speed things up.

2. Coopie got excited when the money arrived. Exactly what he did, i.e.: jump up and down like a child, giddy, etc., as has been reported by Ckret and Flo is a bit up in the air, but he did have some kind of emotional reaction.

BTW: My target date for the hard copy version is November 24, 2015! I want to bring a bunch to Ariel this year.

The words 'child-like' and 'childish' have been used (by Florence) to describe his actions when the money was brought in and he was examining it. Mucklow made no similar judgement? Perhaps this signifies the difference between the two women's personalities.  The money was the first thing on his list to have brought in ... followed by release of the passengers .... then the parachutes. If that equals his priority list.

Carr thought the money was very important to Cooper. ???

Flo's words are: Cooper remarked about how heavy the money was. He seemed amused and child-like (kind of detached from the seriousness of the situation).

Was it the money per se or Cooper's belief he had just got away with something - Scott free ?
« Last Edit: September 17, 2015, 01:06:33 AM by georger »
 

Offline nmiwrecks

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #1509 on: September 17, 2015, 10:22:27 AM »
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DBC was described by at least one stew as being an 'executive' (command) type.
The quote is: "The man impressed her as being an executive type by his dress, special mannerisms, and consideration that he exhibited for her while he was on the aircraft."

I'm not seeing a military/command/officer type officer here, and apparently neither did Tina, as she didn't use any of those words.  I don't envision a military person being concerned with Tina's feelings or feeling the need to give her special consideration, especially a Sargent or officer in command of others, who are trained to send men to their death, if need be.

This is just my opinion, and perhaps a bit of projection of who I think the Cooper suspect could be.

It would also be very interesting to know what those "special mannerisms" Tina mentioned where though.
"If you always do what you’ve always done, you’ll always get what you’ve always got." - Henry Ford
 

Offline nmiwrecks

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #1510 on: September 17, 2015, 10:30:34 AM »
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McCoy showed a lot of sack...the guy played co-pilot, he threw chutes out the back. he bluffed them with a dummy grenade, and an empty gun, he ended up looking for himself in a helicopter :o
And he was nervous, swearing, sweating bullets and agitated.  What does that say about the Cooper suspect who appeared to be cool, calm and collected throughout his ordeal?


Regardless of how they acted it still takes balls to do what they did, but helping out looking for yourself ranks pretty high... ;) ;)
Agreed!  :)   Both skyjackings took a huge amount of co-jo-nes, or a lack of brains, and maybe a bit of both.  ???  We know McCoy's history and know he was the "real deal" (hero, brave).  There's no questioning his bravery.  And yet, he was extremely nervous.  What does this say about the Cooper suspect and his frame of mind?   ??? 
"If you always do what you’ve always done, you’ll always get what you’ve always got." - Henry Ford
 

georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #1511 on: September 17, 2015, 02:43:25 PM »
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McCoy showed a lot of sack...the guy played co-pilot, he threw chutes out the back. he bluffed them with a dummy grenade, and an empty gun, he ended up looking for himself in a helicopter :o
And he was nervous, swearing, sweating bullets and agitated.  What does that say about the Cooper suspect who appeared to be cool, calm and collected throughout his ordeal?


Regardless of how they acted it still takes balls to do what they did, but helping out looking for yourself ranks pretty high... ;) ;)
Agreed!  :)   Both skyjackings took a huge amount of co-jo-nes, or a lack of brains, and maybe a bit of both.  ???  We know McCoy's history and know he was the "real deal" (hero, brave).  There's no questioning his bravery.  And yet, he was extremely nervous.  What does this say about the Cooper suspect and his frame of mind?   ???

I think we will disagree, but I dont see McCoy as a model for Cooper, and perhaps 'not even remotely'! Carr tried to use McCoy as a model for comparing Cooper and I thought when that started it was wrong. McCoy the true expert vs Cooper the amateur. We don't know anything about Cooper's background or even who he was! [Did both Cooper & McCoy have the Dopamine D4 receptor (D4DR) exon III polymorphism? . . . That's a joke illustrating just how far into the ozone this can get!]  :)

We don't even know if they had the same cultural background. The two seemed to handle stress differently during the hijacking, as judged by the times each relieved stress, in different ways. They handled people differently. They handled their hijackings differently. One got caught because of his big mouth, the other was never seen again, and nobody seems to have a solid idea who Cooper even was!

My guess is McCoy would be insulted if you compared him to Cooper! Cooper might just laugh...

If there is any area of this affair where different observers obviously manifest wildly different assessments, it is in the psychological assessment of Cooper which runs the gamut from some reading 'motives and intentions' from the shape of Cooper's bones (Blevins), to the 'remote viewing' the real Cooper by others, to the pronouncements of the FAA Psychiatrist ......... all the way to Tina saying Cooper was 'polite and calm'! The gap between all of those expert opinions is large enough to drive the whole 6th Army through on its way to the Academy Awards simply to get an oil change!   :)

 
 
« Last Edit: September 17, 2015, 02:56:54 PM by georger »
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #1512 on: September 17, 2015, 03:44:08 PM »
Ahem, Georger...I have to take issue with one of your last comments:

"to the 'remote viewing' the real Cooper by others."

Who are the "others?" As far as I know, I am the only one utilizing remote viewing techniques to plumb the depths of Norjak.

If I have any compatriots in this endeavor please let me know!
« Last Edit: September 17, 2015, 03:44:43 PM by Bruce A. Smith »
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #1513 on: September 17, 2015, 03:53:00 PM »
Cooper and McCoy

I don't see much similarity between the two skyjackers. Yes, McCoy refined many aspects of Cooper's heist, or copied them outright - refueling truck on the port side of plane, sitting in the rear of the plane, communication and notes, etc., but the two men seem very different to me.

Involving a wife in thievery is not a good business practice, imho. Not knowing where to stash the money once he got home seems incredibly lame. Not having a game plan for the last part of the heist does not seem to be at the level of preparation and execution that Cooper displayed.

Georger, why do you think McCoy was in McCarran Airport November 24-25, 1971? That's the real kicker to this discussion, in my view.

And why does the FBI have so may conflicting views on this? Himms says McCoy was in LA, Seattle FO says McCoy was eating turkey and watching football games with the wifey and kids in Provo, and Calame says he was coming back from you know what!
 

Offline nmiwrecks

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #1514 on: September 17, 2015, 04:26:19 PM »
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McCoy showed a lot of sack...the guy played co-pilot, he threw chutes out the back. he bluffed them with a dummy grenade, and an empty gun, he ended up looking for himself in a helicopter :o
And he was nervous, swearing, sweating bullets and agitated.  What does that say about the Cooper suspect who appeared to be cool, calm and collected throughout his ordeal?


Regardless of how they acted it still takes balls to do what they did, but helping out looking for yourself ranks pretty high... ;) ;)
Agreed!  :)   Both skyjackings took a huge amount of co-jo-nes, or a lack of brains, and maybe a bit of both.  ???  We know McCoy's history and know he was the "real deal" (hero, brave).  There's no questioning his bravery.  And yet, he was extremely nervous.  What does this say about the Cooper suspect and his frame of mind?   ???

I think we will disagree, but I dont see McCoy as a model for Cooper, and perhaps 'not even remotely'! Carr tried to use McCoy as a model for comparing Cooper and I thought when that started it was wrong. McCoy the true expert vs Cooper the amateur. We don't know anything about Cooper's background or even who he was! [Did both Cooper & McCoy have the Dopamine D4 receptor (D4DR) exon III polymorphism? . . . That's a joke illustrating just how far into the ozone this can get!]  :)

We don't even know if they had the same cultural background. The two seemed to handle stress differently during the hijacking, as judged by the times each relieved stress, in different ways. They handled people differently. They handled their hijackings differently. One got caught because of his big mouth, the other was never seen again, and nobody seems to have a solid idea who Cooper even was!

My guess is McCoy would be insulted if you compared him to Cooper! Cooper might just laugh...

If there is any area of this affair where different observers obviously manifest wildly different assessments, it is in the psychological assessment of Cooper which runs the gamut from some reading 'motives and intentions' from the shape of Cooper's bones (Blevins), to the 'remote viewing' the real Cooper by others, to the pronouncements of the FAA Psychiatrist ......... all the way to Tina saying Cooper was 'polite and calm'! The gap between all of those expert opinions is large enough to drive the whole 6th Army through on its way to the Academy Awards simply to get an oil change!   :)
We agree, as usual.   ???  :o  ;)
"If you always do what you’ve always done, you’ll always get what you’ve always got." - Henry Ford