Poll

How did the money arrive on Tena Bar

River Flooding
1 (5%)
Floated to it's resting spot via Columbia river
2 (10%)
Planted
6 (30%)
Dredge
11 (55%)
tossed in the river in a paper bag
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 17

Voting closed: August 16, 2016, 09:05:28 AM

Author Topic: Tena Bar Money Find  (Read 1344897 times)

Robert99

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #1440 on: August 14, 2015, 11:33:31 PM »
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Palmer and Kaye have different conclusions. Palmer claims to show the dredge layer, but Kaye, actually, others included claim the sand, or dredge material wasn't pushed that far up the beach.

McPheters doesn't really give enough information about how many pieces were found, and logged. I read on the DZ that snowmman brought it to Bruce's attention.

Bruce, did you ever follow up trying to contact McPheters?

I have ordered McPheters' book and Amazon says I'll get it Sunday.

Here are some possibilities with respect to the dredged materials (no rocket science involved here):

1.  If dredged materials are found above the sand layer that contained the money and/or fragments, then the money was there prior to the dredging in 1974 (or whenever it was).

2.  If dredged materials are found below the money level, then the money arrived after the dredging deposits.

3.  If no dredged materials are found at or near the money find location, then the money could have arrived anytime from the hijacking in 1971 until the money was found in 1980.  But a very high water level would be required to get the money to the elevation at which it was found.

4.  If dredged materials are found intermixed with the money find sand layer, then that would suggest that the dredging deposited the money at that location.  And all things considered, that almost defies belief as far as I am concerned. 
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #1441 on: August 15, 2015, 11:22:01 AM »
I don't know if a conclusion will be found with all the confusion on things that surround the find..

Palmer clearly shows layers in the sand, but did he identify them correctly?
Kaye, Fazio, and the FBI claim the material never made it to the money location.

Some reports state 3 bundles, while others claim 4, or a "wad" of bills....
The location itself comes under fire. "very close to the waters edge" "close to the treeline"
A picture shows Brian up closer to the trees, and not the 'waters edge"

Reports of a debris field, but they fail to show any large amounts. even during the dig (see photo)

PCGS finds 35 more serial numbers. how many more numbers would be with the batch given to the insurance company?



« Last Edit: August 15, 2015, 02:33:52 PM by Shutter »
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #1442 on: August 16, 2015, 02:20:33 PM »
Yup. I called McPheters and spoke to him for about 20 minutes.

What transpired in that conversation I have put in my book and I posted the full interview at the DZ and Mountain News. In essence, McPheters told me that he found shards along the "tide line" on the upper reaches of the beach. He was digging along this line with a shovel and found the pieces a few inches buried in the sand down to a depth of about a "shovel's length." We never discussed his bagging any of his finds, nor how he documented it.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #1443 on: August 16, 2015, 02:23:51 PM »
I assume it was below the money find?
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #1444 on: August 16, 2015, 11:23:46 PM »
My understanding was that the "High tide line" was higher up on the beach than the money find site. But I didn't explicitly discuss this with McPheters.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #1445 on: August 16, 2015, 11:30:27 PM »
I think that would depend on where the high tide line is considered?
 

Robert99

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #1446 on: August 16, 2015, 11:39:27 PM »
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I think that would depend on where the high tide line is considered?

The daily tidal variation is less than two feet at Tina Bar.  My guess is that he was referring to the "high tide line" as the place were vegetation (grass and trees) starts on the beach.  That is, near the tree line.

If some of the pictures of the FBI's dig at the site, the agents are very close to the tree line but there is no confirmation that they are at the exact money find location.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #1447 on: August 16, 2015, 11:42:17 PM »
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I think that would depend on where the high tide line is considered?

The daily tidal variation is less than two feet at Tina Bar.  My guess is that he was referring to the "high tide line" as the place were vegetation (grass and trees) starts on the beach.  That is, near the tree line.

If some of the pictures of the FBI's dig at the site, the agents are very close to the tree line but there is no confirmation that they are at the exact money find location.

yes, and as usual we have different stories. Kaye believe the money was found up close to the tree's while a picture with Brian shows him away from them. then reports of finding the money at the waterline?
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #1448 on: August 17, 2015, 10:31:10 AM »
It appears to be The Army Corps Of Engineers are the ones responsible for identifying the dredge layer.


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Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #1449 on: August 17, 2015, 04:39:14 PM »
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I think that would depend on where the high tide line is considered?

The daily tidal variation is less than two feet at Tina Bar.  My guess is that he was referring to the "high tide line" as the place were vegetation (grass and trees) starts on the beach.  That is, near the tree line.

If some of the pictures of the FBI's dig at the site, the agents are very close to the tree line but there is no confirmation that they are at the exact money find location.

Up near the tree line was my understanding.
 

Offline nmiwrecks

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #1450 on: August 18, 2015, 09:39:46 AM »
For me, the key to the money find is, was the money placed at Tena Bar intentionally, or did it arrive there unintentionally?  If it arrived there unintentionally (dredge, currents, or was there since the skyjacking), then I assume it either detached from the Cooper suspect and both hit the earth's surface not to far from each other, or they hit the earth's surface together.  Either way, it would seem the money was in either one or two locations since the skyjacking.

On the other hand, if the money arrived there intentionally, the prime suspects for planting the money are the Ingrams, Kenny or Duane.

The more information and opinions I read on the subject, the more I'm convinced that the dredge can't be ruled out.
"If you always do what you’ve always done, you’ll always get what you’ve always got." - Henry Ford
 

georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #1451 on: August 18, 2015, 11:08:30 AM »
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For me, the key to the money find is, was the money placed at Tena Bar intentionally, or did it arrive there unintentionally?  If it arrived there unintentionally (dredge, currents, or was there since the skyjacking), then I assume it either detached from the Cooper suspect and both hit the earth's surface not to far from each other, or they hit the earth's surface together.  Either way, it would seem the money was in either one or two locations since the skyjacking.

On the other hand, if the money arrived there intentionally, the prime suspects for planting the money are the Ingrams, Kenny or Duane.

The more information and opinions I read on the subject, the more I'm convinced that the dredge can't be ruled out.

Keep in mind, the bulk of the money is missing.

We know that natural means can both bring money to a sandbar and destroy the rest. We don't know that human's can do the same thing, or did! Only natural facts can account for both found money and missing money with 100% certainty.
 
« Last Edit: August 18, 2015, 01:12:16 PM by georger »
 

Offline sailshaw

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #1452 on: August 26, 2015, 10:48:57 AM »
Shutter:    I just finished reading the book written by the retired FBI/Bishop Mike McPheters and in Chapter 20 he talks about his assignment to look for DB Cooper money at Tina's Bar. He says that "while sifting through a parcel of the beach assigned to me, I turned up portions of soil containing pieces of paper currency approximately two inches wide, but still containing serial numbers that matched Cooper's demand money. I preserved each piece as evidence by storing them in plastic bags, tagging them with my initials and the date and casse number. I kept digging. By late that night, and with the help of a good rake, I had found numerous pieces of money, all of which matched up. I documented my discovery as one of the most interesting reports I had ever written"
This was the first news from the FBI of additional pieces of the money.

Bob Sailshaw
 

georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #1453 on: August 26, 2015, 01:27:15 PM »
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Shutter:    I just finished reading the book written by the retired FBI/Bishop Mike McPheters and in Chapter 20 he talks about his assignment to look for DB Cooper money at Tina's Bar. He says that "while sifting through a parcel of the beach assigned to me, I turned up portions of soil containing pieces of paper currency approximately two inches wide, but still containing serial numbers that matched Cooper's demand money. I preserved each piece as evidence by storing them in plastic bags, tagging them with my initials and the date and casse number. I kept digging. By late that night, and with the help of a good rake, I had found numerous pieces of money, all of which matched up. I documented my discovery as one of the most interesting reports I had ever written"
This was the first news from the FBI of additional pieces of the money.

Bob Sailshaw

And there you have it again - who is to be believed: McPheters / Schreuder etal vs. Tom Kaye ?

But let's be totally correct about this. All Kaye ever said was he could not locate any of these illusive fragments-in-evidence-bags McPheters & Schreuder called "check envelopes"; not that they didn't exist.

Thanks for this, Sailshaw.

Now: Do we know from the photos which "parcel of the beach" McPheters worked ? .... in relation to the Ingram bundles? Did Bruce ask him?

« Last Edit: August 26, 2015, 01:34:02 PM by georger »
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #1454 on: August 26, 2015, 04:07:59 PM »
Mike said the "high tide line" when I asked him in 2010 or so.