Lest not forget, the airstair placard. A small piece of pretty hard evidence.  It was found, more or less, on the documented flight path, east of a Toledo - Portland line.

The aft stairs placard was found in a location that was consistent with the airliner being some distance west of Victor-23 when it separated from the airliner.  I used very conservative numbers in those calculations and the separation point may have been even further to the west.

If the un-redacted Seattle ATC transcripts become available and contain sufficient information to determine the airliner's actual ground track and ground speed, then the winds aloft and their direction can be calculated with a certain degree of accuracy.  At that time, I would fully expect to find the placard's separation point as being even further west of V-23.

In a previous post, you perhaps unconsciously assumed that Cooper would land in water when he jumped.  There is nothing to even suggest that Cooper landed in water anywhere.

I was going by this map .The Sleuths said they talk to the people who found it and verified it's exact location.

That doesn't look west of V23 to me. I could be wrong. I'll admit, I've not analyzed the flight path in extreme detail. At this point, I'm going by a reasonable assumption the task force did their work, right after the crime. THey had everything they could possibly could have had at the time, time to prepare to watch/follow the plane, civilian primary radar, military SAGE aggregate info, following planes, pilots who were familiar with the area and corridors therein,  etc.. It just seems unfathomable that they would get the flight path wrong, let alone that wrong.

Land in water...not really what  I was thinking, I was hypothesizing that if the flight path was over Tena bar and Cooper landed near there and died that night, for the dough to end up where it did, the bag, would have gotten wet, even if it wasn't initially in water, very quickly. Wet=degradation and over 9 years, no rubber bands.

I can't tell what you are calling Victor-23 here, but it is the placard separation-from-the-airliner point that determines the flight path and not the location on the ground where the placard was found.  Tom Kaye gives the GPS coordinates where the placard was found on his web page.  Also the elevation of that location was about 1500 feet, so the placard only fell about 8500 feet total.

What is "Tag #3" in the bottom portion of the map?  Also, what are the blue and white lines suppose to represent?  And for a full disclosure, what does the green line represent as well?

73, if you go by Kaye's conclusions with the rubber bands. the money couldn't of been in the sand soon after the crime. there would be no signs of the rubber bands what so ever after several years in the elements.

Kaye's statement(s) about how bands age is confusing, and incomplete. In order for there to be some remnants of the bands visible on the money, and stuck to the cotton fibres, one of two possibilities exists both of which involve chemistry of the bands and some set temperature range. It's not enough to say bands age in six months, or bands are this or that in six months to a year ..... you have to explain how rubber band chemistry works. The Ingrams said the bands were intact and crumbled to the touch, and pieces of the bands were stuck to the money. Pieces of bands had to be plucked off the bills and some pieces pulled money fibers with them.

There are to general conditions possibilities: (a) the bands went through the glass melt transition phase (a technical term) and turned gooey and flowed in amongst bills fibers. Problem is that requires a minimum of 69F degrees. This type of process must normally happen when bands are still young and viable within six months of being exposed to nature.  (b) The more likely scenario is long term molecular depletion and crystallization which generally occurs below 69F degrees and given enough time can even occur slowly in temperatures near 32F degrees.

B is the more likely scenario imo, because the Ingram said the band (crystals) crumbled and turned to dust when touched. That sounds like soft crystals crumbling to the touch. The B scenario also requires more time vs A. A requires higher temps. And it could be a combination of A and B!

But, Tom's tests and statements about how and when bands age (within six months) leaves out the whole reality of what rubber band chemistry is and how it works. Rubber are their chemical makeup! Bands can only do what their chemistry allows them to do in different temperature ranges over different stretches of time. Kaye's "six months" is a statement about band chemistry without stating the actual chemistry at work, and Kaye know it!

So why not frame in terms of the chemistry at work, in the first place!???

           

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So what are these other "natural" means. The Washagoul washdown thing doesn't seem to wash, the he died in Merwin or the Lewis river and it dumping into the Columbia then getting snagged by a boat doesn't seem to hold up either. I think you've said in the past you disagree with the flight path?
That...just seems really far fetched. Sure, my theory is far fetched too, but it doesn't contradict anything, and I only suggest my theory because the biggest issue people have with a person, or Cooper himself, putting the $$ there is why, why would he do it, so I attempted to explain that.  Saying the flight path was way to the west and the jump point was much further south....would have to contradict alot of what most people consider reliable information....they had military and civilian radar, they reproduced the "bump" they felt, pilots flew that area and that corridor regularly, the staircase card was found right on the flight path they determined after.....to say the flight path is off by that much...that's just too much deviation, magnitudes of order of deviation,  to be considerable. POssible, sure, anythings possible, in the realm of any likelihood...that would be a stretch to say, IMHO.
Is there some other natural means theory I've missed?

First, the "natural means theory" for the arrival at Tina Bar, the flight path will be discussed at length below.  Wind and water are the only "natural" forces that most people consider here.  But we must not forget that gravity is also a natural force.

The money was found at a higher location than the Columbia River water level on the evening of the hijacking.  And both Tom Kaye and Dr. Palmer have concluded, if I remember correctly, that the money did not arrive at Tina Bar until a significant length of time after the hijacking date.  And I believe they both also rule out the possibility that the dredging had anything to do with the money being at Tina Bar.

To move the money from a LOWER elevation to a HIGHER elevation requires an intervention of some kind.  In all honesty, there is nothing believable to support the idea that the money was planted at Tina Bar.  And there is also no "natural" explanation as to how the money was moved to a HIGHER elevation.

Consequently, the money could only have been moving from a HIGHER elevation to a LOWER elevation when it ended up at Tina Bar.  It would have to be displaced by water at a HIGHER elevation and then been continually moving LOWER as the water moved it downstream.  Keep in mind that after a relatively short period of time, neither Cooper's biological remains nor the things he had with him would be able to float.

To make a long story short, when moving uphill gravity has to be overcome by additional energy expenditures.  When moving downhill, gravity does much of the work for you and reduces the amount of additional energy expenditures need.

The flight path has been discussed to death on the DZ thread over the past several years.  At the present moment, there is nothing that conclusively proves any flight path.  However, the flight path shown on the so-called "FBI Map" cannot possibly be correct and I posted some things on Sluggo's web page about 2009 showing that.  To their benefit, the FBI apparently doesn't know where the so-called "FBI map" came from either, so don't try to blame it on them.

But there are some interesting marks on the map that suggest the airliner flew direct from near the Malay/Mayfield Intersection to a point near the Canby Intersection which is well south of Portland.  If the airliner did this, then it flew directly overhead of Tina Bar.  In addition, all the chase aircraft ,and Himmelsbach's helicopter as well, were vectored west and southwest of Portland in their attempts to intercept the hijacked airliner.  Further, a time given in the WSHM Cooper files indicates that the airliner was at a specified distance south of the Portland (now Battleground) VORTAC at 8:18 PM PST.  This location and time are consistent with the above information.

Efforts are still underway to obtain the un-redacted Seattle ATC transcripts and some progress has been made.  The FBI has released a small amount of additional information on the matter.  And the ball is currently in the hands of the FAA.  This effort has received support from senior officials in various branches of government.  Hopefully, it will be successful and, if so, I expect that there will be progress in short order in determining what became of D.B. Cooper.     

well put!+++

Tom's map is showing the two other possible flight paths, and the yellow marker, or tag #3 is where one of his test bundles was recovered. the red line indicates the path it traveled prior to being found.

Shutter:    Tag 3 happens to be very close to where Duane Webber told Jo "that is where DB came out of the woods" and when asked how he knew that he said "maybe I was the ground man".
Jo was talking about the North end of Lske Lakama which is just the the East of Tag #3. Could it have been where DB  actually came out of the woods and very close to where DB touched down?

Bob Sailshaw

Here's the reality of that tale:

Jo has talked to hundreds of people multiple times over the years. Very likely this account Jo told did not come from Duane, but it came from 'somebody' Jo talked with. It's something Jo borrowed. It was somebody else's idea. These narratives Jo peddles have no relationship to reality except as a device to keep Jo Weber involved and her name in print?

DB Cooper was riding in an aeroplane - he jumped out of the plane - he was rejoined with the Earth somewhere - if his body was not found chances are he survived the jump and went somewhere. Did he survive the event long term?  Who knows! Given the fact that the FBI and others wont talk about it publicly it's anyone's best guess what happened. You can put a lot of narratives into that vacuum.
   
 

In essence, she claims DB Cooper is the Zodiac killer, and names him: Jack Torrance. Whew.

I see a lot of people on You Tube state the same about Cooper & the Zodiac....even buckwheatflowers has mentioned it...


I see multiple emails coming from Jo tonite 

Vacuums:

Georger, and everyone, what is your understanding of vacuum-filling in criminal cases?  Are most cases like Norjak? Do the wannabees come out in force for every juicy crime?  Zodiak? Son of Sam, etc... Does every culturally popular case have a Jo Weber?

I just had an interaction with Nanette Barto, who is having a Jo Weber incarnation via the handwriting samples presented in the Zodiac case and the "DB Cooper" letters. On the surface she seems like an intelligent, competent woman. (And cute). But go into detail and she is in outer space faster than I can spit.

In essence, she claims DB Cooper is the Zodiac killer, and names him: Jack Torrance. Whew.

Similarly, how do you explain Don Burnworth?  A competent check pilot for United who clearly went off the deep-end when it comes to Norjak.

Your stuff is unanswerable. Ask the Blue Fairy.

You and Blevins and Weber have a lot in common.