Georger, before I moved to Washington I was a commercial beachcleaner in New York. Over an eight-year period I cleaned a lot of debris off of beaches, and here is my humble opinion about Paul and his detritus.

I think the primary dynamic for debris wash up is the contour of the beach. I think the steeper the beach gets the less debris will be present. The currents simply wash stuff away.

In Paul's video, the strand is certainly very gentle. Further, the river does not appear to be too deep in the immediate areas just beyond the shoreline, and I saw a couple of tree stumps - root ball-types of wash-up - that were just sitting in the water. Also, the currents did not appear too strong in Paul's video. These are not the conditions of T-Bar.

But the whole scene had a feel for the Lower River Rd area of the Columbia, so I figure Paul was close to T-Bar, but still some distance away from the actual money-find spot.

Simply, T-Bar is NOT a junk magnet. But someplace else is, and where that is remains unknown. Paul could have been walking along the lower portions of the Lewis River at the confluence with the Columbia for all I know.

Lastly, after reconstructing the actual conditions at T-Bar as they existed in the 1978-1980 era, with a more gentle slope than now, I consider T-Bar as an unlikely place to accumulate wash-up before the money find. T-Bar is in the middle of a long run of unchanging beach contours.

Well the debris shown in Pauls video is somewhere?

Where?

And presumably that debris was not put wherever it is by some flying saucer! It washed in by natural means during some period of time.

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Georger, before I moved to Washington I was a commercial beachcleaner in New York. Over an eight-year period I cleaned a lot of debris off of beaches, and here is my humble opinion about Paul and his detritus.

I think the primary dynamic for debris wash up is the contour of the beach. I think the steeper the beach gets the less debris will be present. The currents simply wash stuff away.

In Paul's video, the strand is certainly very gentle. Further, the river does not appear to be too deep in the immediate areas just beyond the shoreline, and I saw a couple of tree stumps - root ball-types of wash-up - that were just sitting in the water. Also, the currents did not appear too strong in Paul's video. These are not the conditions of T-Bar.

But the whole scene had a feel for the Lower River Rd area of the Columbia, so I figure Paul was close to T-Bar, but still some distance away from the actual money-find spot.

Simply, T-Bar is NOT a junk magnet. But someplace else is, and where that is remains unknown. Paul could have been walking along the lower portions of the Lewis River at the confluence with the Columbia for all I know.

Lastly, after reconstructing the actual conditions at T-Bar as they existed in the 1978-1980 era, with a more gentle slope than now, I consider T-Bar as an unlikely place to accumulate wash-up before the money find. T-Bar is in the middle of a long run of unchanging beach contours.

Well the debris shown in Pauls video is somewhere?

Where?

And presumably that debris was not put wherever it is by some flying saucer! It washed in by natural means during some period of time.

Let's remember here that the last GPO printed topographical map for the Tina Bar area, I don't remember its date but I gave Meyer Louie a copy of it and perhaps he could check it out, called the area between Caterpillar Island and the mainland "mud flats".  Also, there was a shipwreck indicated at the north end of CI.

Apparently somewhere in the 1970s, those mud flats were dredged so that boats with about a four or five foot draft could navigate the channel between CI and the mainland and the present marina was built in that channel.  The wrecked ship was apparently removed about the same time.  Amazon kept her boat there (and lived on it) for several years in that time frame.  Perhaps she would be able and willing to give some precise dates here.

Further, and also in the 1970s, the Flushing Channel was built with its inlet to Vancouver Lake a short distance south (upstream) of CI.  Perhaps the construction of the Flushing Channel, the dredging of the mud flats, and the shipwreck removal contributed to a change of river water flow patterns around CI and Tina Bar.  My guess is that the water coming through the channel with the marina would constitute a "boundary layer" some distance downstream (to the north) of CI and past the Tina Bar money find location.  This would reduce the amount of debris from the main river channel that ended up on the then gradually sloping beaches at Tina Bar.  The "boundary layer" would keep the debris in the main river channel and away from the beach.



   

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Georger, before I moved to Washington I was a commercial beachcleaner in New York. Over an eight-year period I cleaned a lot of debris off of beaches, and here is my humble opinion about Paul and his detritus.

I think the primary dynamic for debris wash up is the contour of the beach. I think the steeper the beach gets the less debris will be present. The currents simply wash stuff away.

In Paul's video, the strand is certainly very gentle. Further, the river does not appear to be too deep in the immediate areas just beyond the shoreline, and I saw a couple of tree stumps - root ball-types of wash-up - that were just sitting in the water. Also, the currents did not appear too strong in Paul's video. These are not the conditions of T-Bar.

But the whole scene had a feel for the Lower River Rd area of the Columbia, so I figure Paul was close to T-Bar, but still some distance away from the actual money-find spot.

Simply, T-Bar is NOT a junk magnet. But someplace else is, and where that is remains unknown. Paul could have been walking along the lower portions of the Lewis River at the confluence with the Columbia for all I know.

Lastly, after reconstructing the actual conditions at T-Bar as they existed in the 1978-1980 era, with a more gentle slope than now, I consider T-Bar as an unlikely place to accumulate wash-up before the money find. T-Bar is in the middle of a long run of unchanging beach contours.

Well the debris shown in Pauls video is somewhere?

Where?

And presumably that debris was not put wherever it is by some flying saucer! It washed in by natural means during some period of time.

Let's remember here that the last GPO printed topographical map for the Tina Bar area, I don't remember its date but I gave Meyer Louie a copy of it and perhaps he could check it out, called the area between Caterpillar Island and the mainland "mud flats".  Also, there was a shipwreck indicated at the north end of CI.

Apparently somewhere in the 1970s, those mud flats were dredged so that boats with about a four or five foot draft could navigate the channel between CI and the mainland and the present marina was built in that channel.  The wrecked ship was apparently removed about the same time.  Amazon kept her boat there (and lived on it) for several years in that time frame.  Perhaps she would be able and willing to give some precise dates here.

Further, and also in the 1970s, the Flushing Channel was built with its inlet to Vancouver Lake a short distance south (upstream) of CI.  Perhaps the construction of the Flushing Channel, the dredging of the mud flats, and the shipwreck removal contributed to a change of river water flow patterns around CI and Tina Bar.  My guess is that the water coming through the channel with the marina would constitute a "boundary layer" some distance downstream (to the north) of CI and past the Tina Bar money find location.  This would reduce the amount of debris from the main river channel that ended up on the then gradually sloping beaches at Tina Bar.  The "boundary layer" would keep the debris in the main river channel and away from the beach.

Its a straight shot from the CI channel on to Tina Bar and with high water, current, or even tides an object could then flow further down Tina Bar to the find site perhaps to be deposited there.

This still doesn't account for all the debris shown and the location in Paul's video.

The debris is the reason I was shocked by Paul's video. I am only assuming he is somewhere in the Tina Bar area. And, if you go back and look at old photos including excavation photos you don't see that kind of debris on Tina Bar. The only reference I have is a statement from JT who talked to the Fazio's saying a lot of debris collected on their beach during high water - for whatever that statement is worth? And of course JT's own claim that balls he released in the Washougal wound upon Tina Bar, a statement repeated by Givet in his video.

We know the flightpath crossed the Columbia River - somewhere! If Cooper landed in the Columbia basin then that increases the chance his money wound up at Tina Bar by natural means. If some facts of hydrology favored the Fazio beach as a deposition site, that further increases the probability Cooper money could surface in the Tina Bar area, by natural means.
 

Maybe someone could mark the entrance(s) to Tina Bar the Ingrams, FBI, and most other people take ... and any other significant points on this image.

First, the money find location is in the right area in this 1979 photograph.  Just to the right of the money find location is a square area that is actually the diary containment pond (I don't know if this pond actually existed in 1979 but that is where it is now located).  Note that there are only a couple of trees between that pond area and the beach area.

Immediately to the right of the pond is an east to west road (top to bottom in this photograph) that goes through the Fazio's building area to the NW Lower River Road.  That is the main entrance and is probably the one the FBI blocked off to prevent other people (including one of the Fazios) from entering their own property.

The other entrance is a primitive road that angles off from the NW Lower River Road to the Northwest about the location where the name "Old River Road" appears.  It is now blocked off by a locked gate and I think a picture of this gate appears on Sluggo's web site.  I don't know exactly how you get from this entrance to the beach and Tina Bar.

The entrances I see are located on the photo. I recall seeing cars parked on the levee while they were searching for more money.

If not mistaken the area is probably not a levee as much as it is a elevated area. you can see the cars in the background on a higher elevation. R99 might correct me on this?

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The entrances I see are located on the photo. I recall seeing cars parked on the levee while they were searching for more money.

where is the levee?

The NW Lower River Road is built on top of a levee in the area of the Fazio property.  The Fazio property is about the same level as the road (and levee) but the land immediately on the east side of the road is about four feet or so lower than the road itself.

I don't know. I guess my personal reaction is, it's not quite as easy to access Tina Bar as previously thought? Unless someone arrives on Tina Bar by a boat they must make a rather long journey to access the shoreline with almost no guarantee of privacy and all access goes right through Fazio property ... do the Fazio's have dogs that bark? I hate to say this but from my perspective this is beginning to get a little comical ... The Journey to the Holy Money Shangrila on private property ... all to make a plant of Cooper money that most certainly is out of plain sight (buried!) .... all versus or to avoid natural means? Does anyone else see this as a little far fetched-problematic 

If Cooper was an efficient person, he certainly chose the long way around the barn to accomplish this task (plant)!

All of that vs. the simplicity of 'natural means'.

Did he also forge and create the matching scene of the plant!? Every grain of sand and nail and bit of glass and wood, or is that all natural and accidental? Cooper is looking like a genius!

The Hutzpah of it all is mind boggling! Cooper is a Cosmic Comedian in addition to being a Genius. Frankly, I don't think the Ingrams were bright enough to pull this off?!

  

 

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The entrances I see are located on the photo. I recall seeing cars parked on the levee while they were searching for more money.

where is the levee?

The NW Lower River Road is built on top of a levee in the area of the Fazio property.  The Fazio property is about the same level as the road (and levee) but the land immediately on the east side of the road is about four feet or so lower than the road itself.

I don't know. I guess my personal reaction is, it's not quite as easy to access Tina Bar as previously thought? Unless someone arrives on Tina Bar by a boat they must make a rather long journey to access the shoreline with almost no guarantee of privacy and all access goes right through Fazio property ... do the Fazio's have dogs that bark? I hate to say this but from my perspective this is beginning to get a little comical ... The Journey to the Holy Money Shangrila on private property ... all to make a plant of Cooper money that most certainly is out of plain sight (buried!) .... all versus or to avoid natural means? Does anyone else see this as a little far fetched-problematic 

If Cooper was an efficient person, he certainly chose the long way around the barn to accomplish this task (plant)!

All of that vs. the simplicity of 'natural means'.

Did he also forge and create the matching scene of the plant!? Every grain of sand and nail and bit of glass and wood, or is that all natural and accidental? Cooper is looking like a genius!

The Hutzpah of it all is mind boggling! Cooper is a Cosmic Comedian in addition to being a Genius. Frankly, I don't think the Ingrams were bright enough to pull this off?!

 

Mother Nature rules!

I think so! ?