Poll

How did the money arrive on Tena Bar

River Flooding
1 (5%)
Floated to it's resting spot via Columbia river
2 (10%)
Planted
6 (30%)
Dredge
11 (55%)
tossed in the river in a paper bag
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 17

Voting closed: August 16, 2016, 09:05:28 AM

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Author Topic: Tena Bar Money Find  (Read 1433369 times)

georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #1170 on: April 28, 2015, 12:34:22 AM »
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Sand is everywhere down here. it's just like a beach at every corner.....

Perhaps the FBI did "hang them up to dry" they probably didn't care what happened to them after they did some tests?

Back then the tires were pretty basic. the V, A, shape tread on them. you can see them in the photo of Palmer in the ditch....

one of these?
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #1171 on: April 28, 2015, 12:35:45 AM »
Out of all the tractors. I would have to say that I like this one better than most others.....
« Last Edit: April 28, 2015, 12:36:40 AM by Shutter »
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #1172 on: April 28, 2015, 12:37:39 AM »
Quote
one of these?


Yes, I don't think that tread has changed over the years...
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georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #1173 on: April 28, 2015, 02:14:40 PM »
We are missing part of the story:

Somebody pulled the Ingram groups apart to separate the groups into individual bills - as much as possible - flattened those bills somehow, and tried to finger print a few of the bills. Who was that? That job would have taken time and effort! Normally, it is restoration people and archivists with special training who do such work ... in places like the Burke Museum in Seattle where Mr. Kaye works?

Those are the people with special training who usually get the first 'up close and personal' look at artifacts and form opinions about what the artifacts are saying (or not saying). Those people are usually 'in the loop' of higher level discussions which take place trying to decide the story an artifact is telling and how it relates to other facts 'in a case'. There can be documents which 'document' the discussion and decisions which took place, regarding artifacts.

That work would have been required in order to inventory the money and get a count, and as a preparatory step to finger printing any bills. Individual separated bills were then placed into evidence folders as per the Ckret video and photos. But who did the work? Neither Kaye or anyone else says anything about this part of the story. There would have to be a record of this at the FBI and perhaps some photos. ??? 

In Ckret's photo you can see the blackened bills that were finger printed vs those that weren't.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2015, 03:30:39 PM by georger »
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georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #1174 on: April 28, 2015, 02:42:38 PM »
Your photo showing a possible band fragment has attracted attention before - attached.

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georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #1175 on: April 28, 2015, 02:44:26 PM »
and this ???
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #1176 on: April 28, 2015, 05:19:20 PM »
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and this ???


That's the photo I was looking for on DZ  :D ;D ;D
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Offline nmiwrecks

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #1177 on: May 01, 2015, 09:49:50 AM »
Was any dredging done on the Columbia prior to 1974?  Could there be older layers on the bar?
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #1178 on: May 01, 2015, 12:45:44 PM »
Yes there was.....


Here are a couple of photo's from 1955-1974. you can see what appears to be dredge spoils in the years 55, and 68....
Note the lower area of Tina bar from 68 to 74.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2015, 03:30:53 PM by Shutter »
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #1179 on: May 03, 2015, 12:24:43 PM »
If the money was in another location prior to where it was found could the money still float, or can we suggest the money was that close to where the distance, or depth wasn't an issue. was it ever in the river? what I'm getting at is could the money maintain buoyancy after being subject to weather, and repeat soaking over several the years?

I have a map that gauges the river depths from 2008. I put some of the depths right off the coastline showing the different levels. I find it hard for the money to rise above these levels during a flood on there own?
« Last Edit: May 03, 2015, 12:30:06 PM by Shutter »
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Robert99

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #1180 on: May 03, 2015, 01:31:42 PM »
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If the money was in another location prior to where it was found could the money still float, or can we suggest the money was that close to where the distance, or depth wasn't an issue. was it ever in the river? what I'm getting at is could the money maintain buoyancy after being subject to weather, and repeat soaking over several the years?

I have a map that gauges the river depths from 2008. I put some of the depths right off the coastline showing the different levels. I find it hard for the money to rise above these levels during a flood on there own?

When you use the word "depth", just exactly what are you referring to?  Presumably, you are referring to the distance between the water surface and the bottom of the river.  The "nominal" water surface elevation at Tina Bar is only about 5 feet above sea level.  And the shipping channel is reportedly maintained at a 40 foot depth with respect to some datum level.

If the money bag was freely lying on the river bottom (not snagged to something) then it would never rise to the surface without some outside efforts such as dredging.  Flooding of the river would simply move it downstream on the bottom (or very close to it) and not move it to the surface.

The above suggests that the money bag went "downhill" to the elevation that it was found at Tina Bar if only natural processes were involved.  It would take some human intervention to move the money bag "uphill" to that elevation.  And going only "downhill" greatly reduces the areas where the money bag could have landed upstream of Tina Bar.



 
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #1181 on: May 03, 2015, 01:38:25 PM »
Quote
When you use the word "depth", just exactly what are you referring to?  Presumably, you are referring to the distance between the water surface and the bottom of the river.

Correct, I'm referring to the actual depths of the river. the chart shows a large amount of depths starting from the coastline out. some area's are as deep as 50 feet. the chart is too large to post, but can email when needed...
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georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #1182 on: May 03, 2015, 02:58:12 PM »
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If the money was in another location prior to where it was found could the money still float, or can we suggest the money was that close to where the distance, or depth wasn't an issue. was it ever in the river? what I'm getting at is could the money maintain buoyancy after being subject to weather, and repeat soaking over several the years?

I have a map that gauges the river depths from 2008. I put some of the depths right off the coastline showing the different levels. I find it hard for the money to rise above these levels during a flood on there own?

When you use the word "depth", just exactly what are you referring to?  Presumably, you are referring to the distance between the water surface and the bottom of the river.  The "nominal" water surface elevation at Tina Bar is only about 5 feet above sea level.  And the shipping channel is reportedly maintained at a 40 foot depth with respect to some datum level.

If the money bag was freely lying on the river bottom (not snagged to something) then it would never rise to the surface without some outside efforts such as dredging.  Flooding of the river would simply move it downstream on the bottom (or very close to it) and not move it to the surface.

The above suggests that the money bag went "downhill" to the elevation that it was found at Tina Bar if only natural processes were involved.  It would take some human intervention to move the money bag "uphill" to that elevation.  And going only "downhill" greatly reduces the areas where the money bag could have landed upstream of Tina Bar.



 

Agree, that's an important point. The only way the money can 'elevate' is through intervention of some kind like dredging or bag being snagged in debris which floats (elevates) during high water periods. As I see it a debris scenario almost requires that the money is at or near the surface to become a part of moving surface debris ... ?
« Last Edit: May 03, 2015, 03:34:37 PM by georger »
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georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #1183 on: May 03, 2015, 03:01:57 PM »
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If the money was in another location prior to where it was found could the money still float, or can we suggest the money was that close to where the distance, or depth wasn't an issue. was it ever in the river? what I'm getting at is could the money maintain buoyancy after being subject to weather, and repeat soaking over several the years?

I have a map that gauges the river depths from 2008. I put some of the depths right off the coastline showing the different levels. I find it hard for the money to rise above these levels during a flood on there own?

where are the points that these depths refer to?
above or below the numbers, left or right of the numbers, inside the numbers ???

whatever chart you're working with can't you just take a screen shot of the region of interest?
« Last Edit: May 03, 2015, 03:33:37 PM by georger »
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #1184 on: May 03, 2015, 04:23:46 PM »
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If the money was in another location prior to where it was found could the money still float, or can we suggest the money was that close to where the distance, or depth wasn't an issue. was it ever in the river? what I'm getting at is could the money maintain buoyancy after being subject to weather, and repeat soaking over several the years?

I have a map that gauges the river depths from 2008. I put some of the depths right off the coastline showing the different levels. I find it hard for the money to rise above these levels during a flood on there own?

where are the points that these depths refer to?
above or below the numbers, left or right of the numbers, inside the numbers ???

whatever chart you're working with can't you just take a screen shot of the region of interest?

You should have them. I believe I sent them to you. they were the ones you could see very well that I posted months ago....
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