Author Topic: Tena Bar Money Find (Read 1433417 times)

Shutter · « **Reply #1125 on:** April 24, 2015, 06:18:39 PM »

The only thing I was able to find is the term "denomination not important"

I realize the flight 305 was on to Seattle was a new route, but was it also a return route? did they shuttle from Seattle to Portland, I'm sure they did, but what path was normally taken, vector wise?

what path did 305 take to Seattle?

Robert99 · « **Reply #1126 on:** April 24, 2015, 07:54:00 PM »

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

The only thing I was able to find is the term "denomination not important"

I realize the flight 305 was on to Seattle was a new route, but was it also a return route? did they shuttle from Seattle to Portland, I'm sure they did, but what path was normally taken, vector wise?

what path did 305 take to Seattle?

V-23 (Victor 23) was used in both directions.

georger · « **Reply #1127 on:** April 24, 2015, 11:21:22 PM »

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
The only thing I was able to find is the term "denomination not important"

I realize the flight 305 was on to Seattle was a new route, but was it also a return route? did they shuttle from Seattle to Portland, I'm sure they did, but what path was normally taken, vector wise?

what path did 305 take to Seattle?

V-23 (Victor 23) was used in both directions.

Im getting a smile out of the flip-flop on Vector Victor....

"Calling Maringey - Hallo? Hallo? - Victor Vector? Hallo? Hallo? Is anyone there? Victor Vector Captain?.."

And they vector so convincingly! Hallo-Hallo! Calling Captain Vector Victor. Like a 50s clip from "Captain Video"!

oh well ... slow day.

Shutter · « **Reply #1128 on:** April 24, 2015, 11:30:43 PM »

I have trouble with some words. this is one of them. we have two roads here that change into another name. I still can't get the names correct for each road change. they turn into Coral Ridge, and Coral Springs $:-\$ $:-\$ $:-\$ $:-\$

Shutter · « **Reply #1129 on:** April 24, 2015, 11:34:18 PM »

georger · « **Reply #1130 on:** April 24, 2015, 11:35:40 PM »

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Georger, how did you learn that Cooper said the money was not important? I've never heard that before.

Read Dropzone. Im not going through it for the 500th time.

I believe its in comments Tina made to someone or in a Ckret post? It caught my eye when I read it ... because it contrasts with how excited Cooper was when he got the money, then offered some to the stews... it caught my eye because it potentially goes to Cooper's priorities. I dont remember the exact source.

and Im not going to sped a lot of time chasing it down at this late date!

I am vectoring toward the victor, searching: aint found it yet - but here's a few money vectors!

377 (F 666)
Jan 20, 2011, 1:04 PM
Post #21361 of 58140 (47282 views)

      Re: [georger] A Ticket, Tie Tack and Some Money (Tick Tack Dough) [In reply to]

________________________________________
Quote:
Those core values on his part, may be one of
the reasons he was never found, with or without
any money.

Interesting. If he REALLY didnt care about the money he may have abandoned it or stored it and never tapped it. The feds and the public were looking for an enriched Cooper, hoping to spot some guy with a big delta between earnings and spending or someone who was in real serious money trouble prior to the skyjack.

Offering a bundle to Tina was really really odd. I mean he knows she cant accept it and that it is stolen money. Why offer it? To make Tina like him? Who would really appreciate getting an offer of stolen money? Did it really happen?

Although not a perfect analogy its like a guy sticks up a 7-11 and tells the clerk, "here keep this" as he tosses back a few twenties. 377

Ckret
Jan 21, 2008, 11:38 AM
Post #1240 of 1694 (913 views)
Registered: Sep 7, 2007
Posts: 522     Re: [SafecrackingPLF] The Solution [In reply to]
bren,

here's what the money tells; If Cooper lived he lived without his money. The money (from it's condition when found) had to have been sheltered from the elements. Because the money could not have been there before 1974 it rules out that Cooper landed near by, buried some cash and never came back. Because of its condition when found we know the earliest it could have been there in an unprotected state is late 78. There would be no logical reason for someone to come back and plant the money there 8 years after. It would not have cooled the investigation or thrown it off of a subject. No matter where the money is found the subject list would have stayed the same. Plus, at this point who ever Cooper is, he got away with it. The investigation was dying, why would someone fan the flames and $5,800 was a large sum in the late 70's and 80's, if you got away with it, you wouldn't give it up for no apparent reason.

If the above is true then the money was blown off of Cooper when he jumped (which an accurate recreation may prove useful) or he died and the money detached from his decaying corps. The money then takes a big portion of the mystery out of the mystery, no beaches, no margaritas, no high living. It's either death or "damn, I'll never do that again!!!"

Ckret
Jan 21, 2008, 12:46 PM
Post #1242 of 1694 (870 views)
Registered: Sep 7, 2007
Posts: 522     Re: [skydogs] The Solution [In reply to]

if cooper buried the money on the beach upon landing that is where it would have stayed undisturbed. In 1974 almost two feet of sand and clay were buried there. I am sure, if Cooper buried the money he would have put the bag at least a foot down most likely more. The geologist that worked the site stated that it would be of a certain impossibility that on its own the money could have broke through the clay deposits from the dredging and the dig showed no signs of disturbance in the clay layer.

Ckret
Dec 5, 2007, 3:25 PM
Post #678 of 1694 (1711 views)
Registered: Sep 7, 2007
Posts: 522     Re: [SafecrackingPLF] Cooper Eyewitnesses [In reply to]

When Tina brought the money to Cooper, Cooper started talking excitedly about it (Flo's assessment about him being child like). He talked about how heavy it was and had Flo hold the bag so she could feel the weight. Tina then joked with Cooper about it being a lot of money and could she have some. Cooper reached into the bag and gave her a bundle of money. Tina then said to him she was just joking and that she could not accept gratuities and handed the bundle back to Cooper.

Vector Victor.
Capt Video.

georger · « **Reply #1131 on:** April 25, 2015, 02:32:30 AM »

Another error found on Kaye website. Read this from Kaye's website ...

The "Palmer Report" stemmed from the FBI bringing in Portland State University geologist Dr. Leonard Palmer to analyze the sand bar where the money was found. In between the 1971 hijacking and the 1980 money find, the Columbia River was dredged and sand was deposited on Tena Bar in 1974. Palmer's report determined that the money was in a layer of top sand laid down by the dredging. This implied that the money was somewhere else upstream for years before coming to rest on Tena Bar. The counterpoint was that the delicate rubber bands were still intact on the bundles when found. The bands pointed to an earlier time frame for the money coming to rest on Tena. Debate factor = 9 of 10

Under no condition does the Palmer report say, imply, or determine that: "Palmer's report determined that the money was in a layer of top sand laid down by the dredging.

The Palmer report and the Palmer chart specifically assign the dredging layer to layer 'C', the "clay-lump" layer ... as previously described; not the "top sand" as Kaye says!

Kaye is just flat out wrong. Kaye needs to correct this factual error on his website. It is a profound error of fact.

nmiwrecks · « **Reply #1132 on:** April 25, 2015, 08:50:07 AM »

Georger says:

Quote

It may be an audacious thing for him to do (something you would not do _ something people who value money might not do) but he is exorcising a political grudge. He said "the money is not important"! Sounds to me like he is making a political statement and wants to be a "hero" and make a point and get away with it! And he tosses the "establishment's money" into the Columbia as a final act of defiance and contempt! I knew a hundred guys in the seventies who wold do something like that if they could, and laugh all the way home. And that scenario is exactly how a lot of political types in the 70s took Cooper's hijacking.

A bomb and a political principle and an audacious act _ was the stock & trade of political terrorists in the 1970s.

I think the Cooper suspect's "grudge" may be personal or philosophical. If it were political, he would have mentioned the war, or taxes, etc. Acts of terror are committed to send a message, but no message was sent here, or even implied.

What I find interesting is the Cooper suspect carried a conversation with Tina for hours, and she seems to describe him as almost charming. The Cooper suspect must have had some decent social skills for her not to call him creepy. They seemed to have made a connection. Imagine if she had a three hour conversation with the uni-bomber.

Obviously this guy wasn't socially inept.

nmiwrecks · « **Reply #1133 on:** April 25, 2015, 08:56:50 AM »

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Another error found on Kaye website. Read this from Kaye's website ...

The "Palmer Report" stemmed from the FBI bringing in Portland State University geologist Dr. Leonard Palmer to analyze the sand bar where the money was found. In between the 1971 hijacking and the 1980 money find, the Columbia River was dredged and sand was deposited on Tena Bar in 1974. Palmer's report determined that the money was in a layer of top sand laid down by the dredging. This implied that the money was somewhere else upstream for years before coming to rest on Tena Bar. The counterpoint was that the delicate rubber bands were still intact on the bundles when found. The bands pointed to an earlier time frame for the money coming to rest on Tena. Debate factor = 9 of 10

Under no condition does the Palmer report say, imply, or determine that: "Palmer's report determined that the money was in a layer of top sand laid down by the dredging.

The Palmer report and the Palmer chart specifically assign the dredging layer to layer 'C', the "clay-lump" layer ... as previously described; not the "top sand" as Kaye says!

Kaye is just flat out wrong. Kaye needs to correct this factual error on his website. It is a profound error of fact.

Georger has me convinced the money arrived via dredging. It also makes the most sense, considering the condition of the money. I have yet to see anything that would make me think otherwise.

Shutter · « **Reply #1134 on:** April 25, 2015, 10:41:30 AM »

The Department of Ecology has a report from 1998 I believe....addressed to the Fazio's

They describe what the dredge material is.....

b) Sediments from the designated dredging area have been sampled and analyzed for previous dredging work and have been found to consist of clean medium course grained sand and some gravel, with less than 1% fines.

That sounds a lot like layer B on the chart that Georger supplied?

Added: the last page shows a date of March 1, 1999

georger · « **Reply #1135 on:** April 25, 2015, 01:15:46 PM »

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

The Department of Ecology has a report from 1998 I believe....addressed to the Fazio's

They describe what the dredge material is.....

b) Sediments from the designated dredging area have been sampled and analyzed for previous dredging work and have been found to consist of clean medium course grained sand and some gravel, with less than 1% fines.

That sounds a lot like layer B on the chart that Georger supplied?

Added: the last page shows a date of March 1, 1999

Thats interesting! Is there a url for this?

Shutter · « **Reply #1136 on:** April 25, 2015, 01:18:08 PM »

I sent the image file to you several days ago. you should be able to go through the pages at the bottom of each image....

MarkBennett · « **Reply #1137 on:** April 25, 2015, 01:28:15 PM »

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Another error found on Kaye website. Read this from Kaye's website ...

The "Palmer Report" stemmed from the FBI bringing in Portland State University geologist Dr. Leonard Palmer to analyze the sand bar where the money was found. In between the 1971 hijacking and the 1980 money find, the Columbia River was dredged and sand was deposited on Tena Bar in 1974. Palmer's report determined that the money was in a layer of top sand laid down by the dredging. This implied that the money was somewhere else upstream for years before coming to rest on Tena Bar. The counterpoint was that the delicate rubber bands were still intact on the bundles when found. The bands pointed to an earlier time frame for the money coming to rest on Tena. Debate factor = 9 of 10

Under no condition does the Palmer report say, imply, or determine that: "Palmer's report determined that the money was in a layer of top sand laid down by the dredging.

The Palmer report and the Palmer chart specifically assign the dredging layer to layer 'C', the "clay-lump" layer ... as previously described; not the "top sand" as Kaye says!

Kaye is just flat out wrong. Kaye needs to correct this factual error on his website. It is a profound error of fact.

Georger has me convinced the money arrived via dredging. It also makes the most sense, considering the condition of the money. I have yet to see anything that would make me think otherwise.

Ok, I confess. I'm confused. The way I read Georger's post is that the money didn't arrive via dredging (because it's not in the dredge layer), but sometime after from sand that was deposited from upstream somewhere, like during a flood period. Am I missing something here?

Shutter · « **Reply #1138 on:** April 25, 2015, 01:40:50 PM »

It is confusing Mark.

The sediment samples were taken from what appears to be the upper portion of Tina bar to the Caterpillar ramp, or mile markers 96-98......

georger · « **Reply #1139 on:** April 25, 2015, 03:02:42 PM »

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

I sent the image file to you several days ago. you should be able to go through the pages at the bottom of each image....

ok yes - got it. Thanks.

Poll

How did the money arrive on Tena Bar

Author Topic: Tena Bar Money Find (Read 1433417 times)

Shutter

Re: Tina Bar Money Find

Robert99

Re: Tina Bar Money Find

georger

Re: Tina Bar Money Find

Shutter

Re: Tina Bar Money Find

Shutter

Re: Tina Bar Money Find

georger

Re: Tina Bar Money Find

georger

Re: Tina Bar Money Find

nmiwrecks

Re: Tina Bar Money Find

nmiwrecks

Re: Tina Bar Money Find

Shutter

Re: Tina Bar Money Find

georger

Re: Tina Bar Money Find

Shutter

Re: Tina Bar Money Find

MarkBennett

Re: Tina Bar Money Find

Shutter

Re: Tina Bar Money Find

georger

Re: Tina Bar Money Find