Author Topic: Suspects And Confessions  (Read 1636674 times)

Offline Shutter

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #645 on: January 15, 2015, 09:21:14 PM »
Quote
If a document is sent to the FBI, somebody has to read it.

Correct, they look at every lead that comes in. contrary to Blevins stating they might throw it in the garbage. it's tough on police departments when they ask for help. they get all kinds of calls, but have to check them..

Robert is starting to sound a lot like Marla's case with all this super memory going on. they got burned once on that. they won't let it happen again.
 

georger

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #646 on: January 16, 2015, 12:56:55 AM »
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Well, the bottom line is that the FBI certainly don't seem to be open to the idea of KC being Cooper. Unless he has some bombshell that can change their mind, the new report will go in a file cabinet never to be retrieved. Anything short of putting KC on that plane, or a Cooper 20 just isn't going to convince them of anything. Contrary to what some believe, the FBI are not dummies.

If a document is sent to the FBI, somebody has to read it.  You just never know what someone could send you.

Robert didn't post it for us to read, only a six page summary.  The six page summary was all speculation -- nothing that could even prompt the FBI to think about questioning someone.  It will take their time that could have been spent on other things and they'll hear from Robert again when he sends out his next "final" report.

In the past the FBI has prosecuted several people who knowingly provided false information in the Cooper case.

There must be a gray area where you can knowingly be a liar and a king sized idiot and a jerk and still not qualify as intentionally providing false information or interference with official cases . . .

 ??? 
« Last Edit: January 16, 2015, 12:57:43 AM by georger »
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #647 on: January 16, 2015, 04:48:53 AM »
Mr. Warren, you raise an interesting point: Can someone be wrong, stupid AND persistent, and still escape prosecution? When does being a royal pain in the ass and a time-wasting nuisance become a criminal action?

Hmmmmmmm.

Along those lines, do you think Earl Cossey should have been prosecuted for mucking up the Norjak investigation, lying to agents, submitting false testimony, etc??? NB-6 versus NB-8, owne the parachutes, DB Cooper chose an inferior parachute, etc...

How about Marla? She told the world what the FBI was doing and they called her uncle their most promising suspect. Can you be prosecuted for bamboozling the Bureau, if that is what in fact happened.

The flip side is that Marla was bamboozled by the FBI, so can the FBI be prosecuted for taking advantage of her and causing her to look the fool, ruin her reputation, cause anguish and emotional suffering to her and her family?

When does deceit and gamesmanship become a crime?
« Last Edit: January 16, 2015, 04:51:52 AM by Bruce A. Smith »
 

Offline MarkBennett

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #648 on: January 16, 2015, 08:57:48 AM »
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In the past the FBI has prosecuted several people who knowingly provided false information in the Cooper case.

There must be a gray area where you can knowingly be a liar and a king sized idiot and a jerk and still not qualify as intentionally providing false information or interference with official cases . . .

 ???

"Remember:  It's not a lie, if you believe it." - George Costanza

 

georger

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #649 on: January 17, 2015, 04:24:03 PM »
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In the past the FBI has prosecuted several people who knowingly provided false information in the Cooper case.

There must be a gray area where you can knowingly be a liar and a king sized idiot and a jerk and still not qualify as intentionally providing false information or interference with official cases . . .

 ???

"Remember:  It's not a lie, if you believe it." - George Costanza

Belief is usually skin deep. It takes a whole village to support belief. And where belief leaves off, deceit begins.

It's called the "human condition".

For example: Paul Quade "believed" investigating the Cooper case was a "total waste of time" (his words), so he did everything in his power to make sure that came true, in his corner of the Universe. Funny!  :) :) :)

 ;)
« Last Edit: January 17, 2015, 04:26:38 PM by georger »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #650 on: January 26, 2015, 11:48:16 PM »
I just watched "Flight From Justice" again. I noticed they gave a description of McCoy of being between 25-30 years old. McCoy was 29. some people believe he was Cooper, however I see to many things different than the way it was done by Cooper.

1) He acted like a Co-Pilot (wind direction, speed, altitude)
2) Weapons vs Bomb
3) Wig was noticeable
4) 16,000 feet, and fly precisely at 200 mph

Since we don't seem to have any photo's of the stews getting off the plane, we don't have people with claims of trama.


Copy/Paste (FBI Website)

Two flight bags loaded with cash and four parachutes were delivered to the plane. The hijacker, who had assumed command on touchdown, gave up his baggage check and had his luggage brought aboard. Fuel trucks hurriedly filled the plane’s tanks with thousands of gallons of jet fuel. After seeing the completion of his written directions, some three hours after the plane had parked, the gunman released the passengers and one of the stewardesses. He then ordered the rest of the crew into the cockpit and took a position in the rear of the aircraft. The hijacker then used the intercom to summon a stewardess. He gave her another set of flight instructions, telling the pilot to take off towards the east, climb to 16,000 feet, and fly precisely at 200 mph on a course that would overpass several specific Utah communities. The messages, now hand-printed, between hijacker and pilot were sent with increasing frequency, always using the stewardess as a courier. The cabin was ordered depressurized, and the gunman warned that if any pursuit planes were spotted he would detonate a hidden explosive device after he had jumped, before the plane could be landed.

The hijacker opened his luggage and covered the peephole between the cockpit and cabin. Observed by Second Officer Floyd Smith (fictitious name) through a slight space under the cockpit door, the hijacker quickly put on a jumpsuit, helmet, and parachute. Once he had shut off the cabin lights to better view the ground, the gunman demanded to be kept abreast of wind, ground, and air speeds; altimeter settings; and sky conditions.

After the aircraft passed over the last Utah community on his prescribed course, the hijacker sent no more notes. Hoping the incident was over, a stewardess ventured into the passenger area and determined that the gunman had indeed bailed out with the ransom into Utah’s darkened skies. Five hours after the hijacking began, the weary crew headed for nearby Salt Lake City International Airport. The FBI immediately searched the plane’s interior for evidence upon its landing. Any object the hijacker may have touched was examined. An array of material such as seat belts, gum wrappers, cigarette butts, and a copy of United’s passenger publication, “Mainliner Magazine,” was gathered by agents. One hand-printed note the hijacker neglected to take with him was also sent to the FBI Laboratory in Washington, D.C., for closer scrutiny.

Interviews with crew members and passengers traced the hijacker’s steps from the moment he boarded. One stewardess recalled the subject was flashily dressed. Other passengers and crew remembered a passenger agent had entered the plane after all had boarded at Denver to locate the owner of an envelope left in the waiting room. The subject claimed it, went into the lavatory for an extended period, and finally was told by a flight officer to return to his seat for takeoff. The general consensus was that the individual had donned a wig and moustache while in the lavatory. However, several passengers felt that more than one person was involved. The notes received by the crew generally used a terminology of “we this” or “we that,” thus giving this impression.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2015, 12:10:29 AM by shutter »
 

georger

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #651 on: January 27, 2015, 03:15:04 AM »
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I just watched "Flight From Justice" again. I noticed they gave a description of McCoy of being between 25-30 years old. McCoy was 29. some people believe he was Cooper, however I see to many things different than the way it was done by Cooper.

1) He acted like a Co-Pilot (wind direction, speed, altitude)
2) Weapons vs Bomb
3) Wig was noticeable
4) 16,000 feet, and fly precisely at 200 mph

Since we don't seem to have any photo's of the stews getting off the plane, we don't have people with claims of trama.


Copy/Paste (FBI Website)

Two flight bags loaded with cash and four parachutes were delivered to the plane. The hijacker, who had assumed command on touchdown, gave up his baggage check and had his luggage brought aboard. Fuel trucks hurriedly filled the plane’s tanks with thousands of gallons of jet fuel. After seeing the completion of his written directions, some three hours after the plane had parked, the gunman released the passengers and one of the stewardesses. He then ordered the rest of the crew into the cockpit and took a position in the rear of the aircraft. The hijacker then used the intercom to summon a stewardess. He gave her another set of flight instructions, telling the pilot to take off towards the east, climb to 16,000 feet, and fly precisely at 200 mph on a course that would overpass several specific Utah communities. The messages, now hand-printed, between hijacker and pilot were sent with increasing frequency, always using the stewardess as a courier. The cabin was ordered depressurized, and the gunman warned that if any pursuit planes were spotted he would detonate a hidden explosive device after he had jumped, before the plane could be landed.

The hijacker opened his luggage and covered the peephole between the cockpit and cabin. Observed by Second Officer Floyd Smith (fictitious name) through a slight space under the cockpit door, the hijacker quickly put on a jumpsuit, helmet, and parachute. Once he had shut off the cabin lights to better view the ground, the gunman demanded to be kept abreast of wind, ground, and air speeds; altimeter settings; and sky conditions.

After the aircraft passed over the last Utah community on his prescribed course, the hijacker sent no more notes. Hoping the incident was over, a stewardess ventured into the passenger area and determined that the gunman had indeed bailed out with the ransom into Utah’s darkened skies. Five hours after the hijacking began, the weary crew headed for nearby Salt Lake City International Airport. The FBI immediately searched the plane’s interior for evidence upon its landing. Any object the hijacker may have touched was examined. An array of material such as seat belts, gum wrappers, cigarette butts, and a copy of United’s passenger publication, “Mainliner Magazine,” was gathered by agents. One hand-printed note the hijacker neglected to take with him was also sent to the FBI Laboratory in Washington, D.C., for closer scrutiny.

Interviews with crew members and passengers traced the hijacker’s steps from the moment he boarded. One stewardess recalled the subject was flashily dressed. Other passengers and crew remembered a passenger agent had entered the plane after all had boarded at Denver to locate the owner of an envelope left in the waiting room. The subject claimed it, went into the lavatory for an extended period, and finally was told by a flight officer to return to his seat for takeoff. The general consensus was that the individual had donned a wig and moustache while in the lavatory. However, several passengers felt that more than one person was involved. The notes received by the crew generally used a terminology of “we this” or “we that,” thus giving this impression.

That's quite a contrast to most accounts of the Cooper case which remain very abstract.
 
 

Offline 1000things

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #652 on: January 27, 2015, 04:25:13 AM »
Thanks shutter .... I noticed half the crowd is same as dropzone though ...including some I'd rather avoid  :P
 

Offline 1000things

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #653 on: January 27, 2015, 04:57:46 AM »
this may have already been discussed and this may be a bit of party pooper however I don't think Webber, McCoy, Kenny or anyone else is Cooper. Simple logic being if u had stayed for hours with someone u know is a hijacker, you'd remember the face even in ur dreams. If any of those guys were to be Cooper Flight Attendants would have recognized em despite age and disguise.

Besides Cooper did not have whiskers which makes it even easier to place him ... again my theory ...

Robert, I gather you are here to along with your cousin (to be read as annoying), I am wondering if I should post my theory here as well .... :P
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #654 on: January 27, 2015, 08:49:52 AM »
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this may have already been discussed and this may be a bit of party pooper however I don't think Webber, McCoy, Kenny or anyone else is Cooper. Simple logic being if u had stayed for hours with someone u know is a hijacker, you'd remember the face even in ur dreams. If any of those guys were to be Cooper Flight Attendants would have recognized em despite age and disguise.

Besides Cooper did not have whiskers which makes it even easier to place him ... again my theory ...

Robert, I gather you are here to along with your cousin (to be read as annoying), I am wondering if I should post my theory here as well .... :P


Welcome 1000..... You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

I don't believe the names you mentioned are Cooper either. I said the exact same to both Robert Blevins, and Jo. someone would have recognized them by now with all the press they both have received over the years. this is a bicker free zone. you can post here without the worry of constant bickering that commonly occur's on Dropzone.

I'm always open to anything new in regards to Cooper. you are more than welcome to present your theory here. I'm looking forward to reading about it.

Shutter
« Last Edit: January 27, 2015, 10:17:27 AM by shutter »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #655 on: January 27, 2015, 09:12:57 AM »
Quote
Simple logic being if u had stayed for hours with someone u know is a hijacker, you'd remember the face even in ur dreams.

Agreed, some people try to use other cases where descriptions were off, most of these crimes happened in seconds to a few minutes not leaving a lot of time to recall what they seen. you can't compare this to basic crimes. the witnesses were with Cooper for hours vs seconds, or minutes. if anything is going to be skewed I would say the sketch would be more inaccurate than the actual description. some claim the descriptions could be off, but have no problem posting there suspect beside the sketch?
« Last Edit: January 27, 2015, 09:14:01 AM by shutter »
 

Offline EVickiW

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #656 on: January 27, 2015, 01:04:36 PM »
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Simple logic being if u had stayed for hours with someone u know is a hijacker, you'd remember the face even in ur dreams.

Agreed, some people try to use other cases where descriptions were off, most of these crimes happened in seconds to a few minutes not leaving a lot of time to recall what they seen. you can't compare this to basic crimes. the witnesses were with Cooper for hours vs seconds, or minutes. if anything is going to be skewed I would say the sketch would be more inaccurate than the actual description. some claim the descriptions could be off, but have no problem posting there suspect beside the sketch?

Bill Mitchell, who sat across the aisle from Cooper, even stated he thought the sketch was off....the following is what he expressed to me in an email:

"Again it was 43 years ago and I don't have the clear picture in my mind.  But I do remember my reaction to certain things. (as I told the FBI, I was a sophomore at University of Oregon and couldn't understand why this older guy was getting all the attention from the flight attendant!! I checked him out pretty well)"
 
.......(redacted the remarks regarding my father) .........  "I had always thought the composite drawing had his face to thin."


Mitchell had time to glance over and check him out. He compared Cooper to himself as Mitchell could not believe this "old guy" was getting that type of attention.
You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #657 on: January 27, 2015, 01:14:03 PM »
I believe Hal Williams, and of course Flo said the sketch was off as well. they also refer to Cooper as an "old guy"  :o
 

Offline Parrotheadvol

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #658 on: January 27, 2015, 08:10:26 PM »
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Simple logic being if u had stayed for hours with someone u know is a hijacker, you'd remember the face even in ur dreams.

Agreed, some people try to use other cases where descriptions were off, most of these crimes happened in seconds to a few minutes not leaving a lot of time to recall what they seen. you can't compare this to basic crimes. the witnesses were with Cooper for hours vs seconds, or minutes. if anything is going to be skewed I would say the sketch would be more inaccurate than the actual description. some claim the descriptions could be off, but have no problem posting there suspect beside the sketch?

The key words of the above quote are "simple logic". Most of these people with their own suspects choose to use their own logic as opposed to simple logic. For example, Blevins logic would work as follows:

1. Kenny Christiansen was DB Cooper
2. Kenny Christiansen was 5'8", but no witnesses put Cooper at less than 5'10".
3. Thus, it must be impossible to correctly gauge a persons height inside an aircraft.

Here's another one:
1. Kenny Christiansen was DB Cooper
2. Kenny got away with the crime and, as evidenced by the $5000 loan he made, also got away with the money.
3. Thus, the money found at Tina Bar has to be a plant.

Pretty simple stuff, really. :D
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #659 on: January 27, 2015, 08:25:32 PM »
Yep, it's rather simple to believe a woman, a single woman could afford a new mortgage, and pay back $5,000 in two years in 1972. simple? I think not.  ;D

The problem with his logic is the odds are she wasn't single, she had arrived in Seattle/Bonney Lake just months before the loan making it hard to believe the whole story. since none of them have come forward to verify any of this, one can only call BS.

It's the dart in the phone book theory  ;D