Author Topic: Suspects And Confessions  (Read 1635899 times)

Offline KidCooper

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #435 on: September 01, 2014, 11:33:41 PM »
It does seem a little strange, I wouldn't know what to expect o records going back that far. Reno records told me the county took over the records in the early 90s and destroyed mugshots going back that far; he seemed miffed that they had done that. Cowlitz simply said the arrest record was all they had with no explanation of why they didn't have a mugshot associated with that arrest record. It's a bummer for sure.
 

georger

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #436 on: September 01, 2014, 11:37:11 PM »
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Mugshot would be ideal. I meant to mention that in the Reno and Cowlitz arrest records I obtained there were no mugshots. I asked if they may have them stored separately from the arrest record, but no dice.

I live on the other side of the planet. But would it be considered unusual in the States for those arrest records not to contain mugshots? Not familiar with your protocols over there. Particularly for 40 odd years ago.

Mugshots (photos) are a standard protocol here.... unless they have been destroyed along with old records.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #437 on: September 01, 2014, 11:37:51 PM »
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It does seem a little strange, I wouldn't know what to expect o records going back that far. Reno records told me the county took over the records in the early 90s and destroyed mugshots going back that far; he seemed miffed that they had done that. Cowlitz simply said the arrest record was all they had with no explanation of why they didn't have a mugshot associated with that arrest record. It's a bummer for sure.

You still have other options. I'll try and see what I can find out in the next couple days. something has been on record...
 

Offline KidCooper

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #438 on: September 02, 2014, 02:48:11 AM »
thanks Shutter, much appreciated. and much appreciate this site.
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #439 on: September 02, 2014, 04:00:09 AM »
Hey, Kid, welcome back to the OK Corral.

Here are a few more angles to check out.

Smokin'99 at the DZ is an absolute pro at finding people.  She purchases the software stuff to access genealogies, etc.  PM her at the DZ, or here.  I'm not sure how to do that here - Shutter, can you help? Not only did Smok' help me find Jane and Lee Dormuth in WA, she also was able to tell me how many times they moved across country, ping-ponging from California to Philly and back a few times.

You need Snowmman, as we all do.  Pray or beseech 377 to pass your request onto the MMan of Snow.

Let's go on a road trip to Aberdeen, as magical things happen in face-to-face encounters.  I would talk to the Sheriff, ask around in bars, teachers at the HS, etc. When I say "I," I mean "You."  Me, I think I'll hang out with your Dad, who should come along with us and film the whole thing.

By the way, Kid, I think you did a good job with the "bullet-point" presentation of what you know about Duane Jarman a few posts back.

Maybe your mom could sit down with a sketch artist and give us something to show folks in Aberdeen? Or photoshop the Cooper sketches into a more accurate reflection of what she remembers about Duane-2.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2014, 04:06:01 AM by Bruce A. Smith »
 

Offline KidCooper

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #440 on: September 02, 2014, 04:49:52 AM »
Howdy Bruce, thanks for the ongoing support. Aberdeen assignment probably will have to happen at some point. Maybe we'll confirm that Aberdeen produced D.B. Cooper along with Kurt Cobain - few'd be surprised by that tidbit I imagine. I'll talk to my Dad and check his thoughts on jumping into the fray, If he's not game (or more likely, too busy) I suppose I'll be dusting off the old handycam at some point to document worthwhile endeavors. We'll talk more about the potential to grassroots some quality media content to contend with the big boys' less than satisfying efforts; I would like to explore opening some ideas in that regard to the community here. I'll see about getting a sketch uploaded onto here from my mom on Jarman (Duane 2). In the meantime I'll test my ability to upload photos with my next post...
 

Offline KidCooper

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #441 on: September 02, 2014, 05:05:13 AM »
Here is an attached image that compares Jarman's handwriting to the handwriting in The Provence letter. A forensic handwriting expert determined the two sets of handwriting a match with a probability factor of 80% - He added that with more samples from each exhibited handwriting he could possibly raise the percentage of probability.

 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #442 on: September 02, 2014, 07:09:33 AM »
I'm wondering what has happened to smokin99? I know she comes and goes, but it's been a while. I'll send up my usual signal in hopes that she will see the smoke  ;D :D



 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #443 on: September 02, 2014, 08:27:23 AM »
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Here is an attached image that compares Jarman's handwriting to the handwriting in The Provence letter. A forensic handwriting expert determined the two sets of handwriting a match with a probability factor of 80% - He added that with more samples from each exhibited handwriting he could possibly raise the percentage of probability.




I'm not a hand writing expert, but I see some similarities, but I also see a difference. the writer of the Cooper letter fails to connect letters, and numbers at the top (T,5,E) while Jarman is neat connecting all his letters, and numbers. I don't see any separation in them. the O & D look similar, but I also make my D's as shown in the Province letter. keep in mind there is no proof to date these letters were ever sent by Cooper. one of the main problems I have is the signing of the letters. one would think he would sign them by Dan Cooper, and not a double alias by using DB Cooper, buts that's my opinion.....
 

Offline 18C

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #444 on: September 02, 2014, 04:27:51 PM »
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Here is an attached image that compares Jarman's handwriting to the handwriting in The Provence letter. A forensic handwriting expert determined the two sets of handwriting a match with a probability factor of 80% - He added that with more samples from each exhibited handwriting he could possibly raise the percentage of probability.




I'm not a hand writing expert, but I see some similarities, but I also see a difference. the writer of the Cooper letter fails to connect letters, and numbers at the top (T,5,E) while Jarman is neat connecting all his letters, and numbers. I don't see any separation in them. the O & D look similar, but I also make my D's as shown in the Province letter. keep in mind there is no proof to date these letters were ever sent by Cooper. one of the main problems I have is the signing of the letters. one would think he would sign them by Dan Cooper, and not a double alias by using DB Cooper, buts that's my opinion.....

I'm no handwriting expert either. I can see the overall similarity. But....

The Jarman handwriting has all the individual letters formed in one solid piece - no separations between portions of the individual letters.

The Providence handwriting has each letter made up of separate, "floating" components.

Take a look in particular at the T and E in the Providence letter. They are made up of pieces. In the Jarman they are solid.
 

Offline KidCooper

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #445 on: September 04, 2014, 03:29:55 AM »
Shutter, yes, completely on board that The Provence letter should not be assumed to have actually been written by the hijacker, mostly posted it to get thoughts as some may find it an interesting consideration. I mostly agree with your thoughts on some individual letters, though the E in Duane is not connected on the top line and the E in Longview not connected in the middle line. 18C, also right on; (there is the B in bend that is not fully connected). The handwriting expert felt that some of these disimilarities could point to two possibilities if the writers were the same: first, based on what he's seen with other cases that the state of mind of the writer being different during the time the writings were made could impact the handwriting; he felt that for instance someone who was sober could have differences than writing compared to while drinking (makes sense), and secondly, he pointed out that some of the E's in The Provence letter were classic indicators of someone attempting to disguise their writing. If this were to be Jarman writing The Provence letter both would seem plausible as he was certainly sober at the time of writing the letter to my mom and the handwriting expert did feel that there were indications the writer of The Provence letter may have been under the influence of alcohol while writing. I think the indications are clear for whoever wrote The Provence letter to attempt to disguise their writing, whether they were really Cooper or not.

This is the way the handwriting expert explained how the 80% probability worked: if you took the handwriting samples of Jarman and 9 other people at random there would be one other person in the group that's handwriting matched The Provence letter as closely as Jarman's did and 8 whose handwriting matched less.

If it were in fact Jarman that wrote The Provence letter, I would personally find it implausible that he were not Cooper. Perhaps there are further ways to determine whether Jarman did - or did not - write The Provence letter; Any ideas on how I might explore that are certainly welcome. Not to jump too far ahead, but of course were Jarman (or for that matter, anyone) to be matched to The Provence letter as well as be identified as the hijacker it would indicate jump survival.
 

Offline 18C

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #446 on: September 04, 2014, 05:37:28 AM »
Thanks for the further explanation. It is a bit misleading the way the handwriting expert expresses the likelihood the two pieces of writing might have been written by the same person. 80% makes it sound highly likely. When in fact it isn't anything like that clean cut when you consider the further explanation.
 

Coopsnoop

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #447 on: September 04, 2014, 09:11:23 AM »
I actually drove to Vancouver, BC a few years ago and spent half a day researching the old news records for that letter.  I knew the letter existed because the Reno Evening Gazette wrote a story about the PROVINCE and the Cooper letter.  When I found it in the archives, I also learned that the Vancouver BC Police Dept took possession of that letter and had it dusted.......but no prints.  None of the four DB Cooper letters had prints.  I had the present day VPD do a records search, but they could not find the original letter.  Presumably, it is lost through time, like the cigarette butts.  I had a copy of the Vancouver letter analyzed by some top former FBI agents, and what they told me was that the handwriting style was very deceptive.  And btw, its not the handwriting style in the letter that's important.  It's the content of the letter, and if you know what you're looking for, it will help lead you to DB Cooper.
 

georger

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #448 on: September 04, 2014, 11:36:39 PM »
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Shutter, yes, completely on board that The Provence letter should not be assumed to have actually been written by the hijacker, mostly posted it to get thoughts as some may find it an interesting consideration. I mostly agree with your thoughts on some individual letters, though the E in Duane is not connected on the top line and the E in Longview not connected in the middle line. 18C, also right on; (there is the B in bend that is not fully connected). The handwriting expert felt that some of these disimilarities could point to two possibilities if the writers were the same: first, based on what he's seen with other cases that the state of mind of the writer being different during the time the writings were made could impact the handwriting; he felt that for instance someone who was sober could have differences than writing compared to while drinking (makes sense), and secondly, he pointed out that some of the E's in The Provence letter were classic indicators of someone attempting to disguise their writing. If this were to be Jarman writing The Provence letter both would seem plausible as he was certainly sober at the time of writing the letter to my mom and the handwriting expert did feel that there were indications the writer of The Provence letter may have been under the influence of alcohol while writing. I think the indications are clear for whoever wrote The Provence letter to attempt to disguise their writing, whether they were really Cooper or not.

This is the way the handwriting expert explained how the 80% probability worked: if you took the handwriting samples of Jarman and 9 other people at random there would be one other person in the group that's handwriting matched The Provence letter as closely as Jarman's did and 8 whose handwriting matched less.

If it were in fact Jarman that wrote The Provence letter, I would personally find it implausible that he were not Cooper. Perhaps there are further ways to determine whether Jarman did - or did not - write The Provence letter; Any ideas on how I might explore that are certainly welcome. Not to jump too far ahead, but of course were Jarman (or for that matter, anyone) to be matched to The Provence letter as well as be identified as the hijacker it would indicate jump survival.

see: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

and: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

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and Bayesean analysis of graphics in 3d space, such as:
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This will get you started in the profession!

Good luck!  :)
 

   
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #449 on: September 05, 2014, 12:20:33 AM »
Interesting, I'll look over the links tomorrow. can we believe that the letter was from Cooper, and he tried to hind this fact? wouldn't it be easier typing out the letter, or use the famous cut outs in order to camouflage who the author is rather than try and change his handwriting which seems to be seen by experts no matter what you do? If Cooper did in fact write that letter and mailed it miles away from his known location, he wouldn't be worried about his handwriting? he would have to be caught first, and then linked to the letter, but it's to late by then, they know who he is? if he is taunting the FBI. I'm not convinced he would try and cover his writing. I don't think he would be worried about it IMO.

I still believe he would have signed it Dan Cooper vs DB Cooper, and supplied a $20 bill to seal the deal. I could be wrong, I don't know.....gotta hit the hay........