Author Topic: Suspects And Confessions  (Read 1511121 times)

Offline snowmman

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #3885 on: December 02, 2018, 01:16:26 PM »
Hahneman's father died relatively young
   28 Oct 1931 (aged 48) (corrected)
Orleans Parish, Louisiana, USA

Oddly, in his obit, when mentioning sons, they had William Jr's name right, but Frederick's wrong. They said "Henry"
Pastoria's name was right (wife)

attached

I read one thing that suggested his mother was sick when he parachuted into Honduras, and he visited her.
I guess the father was relatively old when William and Frederic were born. ('22 and '27).  So he died when they were relatively young ('31)
« Last Edit: December 02, 2018, 01:23:03 PM by snowmman »
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #3886 on: December 02, 2018, 01:20:31 PM »
You mean Frederick?
Well, he'd have to be playing with explosives before age 9, because his dad was dead after that.

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William F Hahneman, the father obtained a patent for inserting an explosive primer into a hole with a rod... was Jr familiar with explosives as well?

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« Last Edit: December 02, 2018, 01:21:27 PM by snowmman »
 

Offline georger

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #3887 on: December 02, 2018, 01:24:00 PM »
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William F Hahneman, the father obtained a patent for inserting an explosive primer into a hole with a rod... was Jr familiar with explosives as well?

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The tree doesnt fall far from the apple.

Is Wilbur Wright in this story somewhere? You could be looking at a whole family of hijackers ... or even a clan of them!
« Last Edit: December 02, 2018, 01:25:04 PM by georger »
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #3888 on: December 02, 2018, 01:28:41 PM »
Yeah, looking at Frederick's birth report, the father was 44 and the mother was 30
so 14 years difference.
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #3889 on: December 02, 2018, 01:34:15 PM »
Here's a long dissertion on the father at findagrave.com
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noting discrepancies

His death certificate says he was 48 at his passing, while his death notice says he was 45. The cemetery thought he was 43. In his travels William rather consistently stated his birth as occurring May 28, 1880 in San Francisco, which means he would have been 51. Regardless of the date used and his exact age, William died young, leaving two young sons, daughter Lylia and his immigrant wife a single mother. Perhaps the presumed hardship to them all led to the upset that would come to his elder son in 1972.

William seems to have traveled a great deal, as his oldest son would later do. Records show he came and went from New Orleans in the US and Honduras (his wife's homeland and a place of his employer) thusly:

October 1920 (dob given as San Francisco May 28, 1880) single, to stay in San Francisco.

March 1928 (dob given as San Francisco May 28, 1880) single, staying c/o Cuyomel Fruit Co in New Orleans.

July 1928 (dob given as San Francisco May 28, 1880) married - travels with wife Pastora b. March 22 1894 in Palacio Honduras, and sons Fredric W b. July 4 1922 Puerto Castilla Honduras, and son William H b. Puerto Cortez Honduras Aug 6, 1927, all to stay at the Judson Hotel in NY NY.

Dec 1928 to Jan 1929 (dob given as San Francisco May 28, 1880) married staying c/o Cuyamel Fruit Co. in New Orleans.

April 1929 (dob given as San Francisco May 28, 1880) married, travels with wife Pastora b. Vallecito Honduras March 22 1894, and son Wm H Jr. b. Aug 5 1927 in Puerto Cortes Honduras to stay in New Orleans. No sign of other son Frederic.

July 1929 (dob given as New Orleans May 28, 1880) married - staying at 3949 Chestnut St New Orleans.

Jan 1930 (dob given as San Francisco May 20, 1880) married - staying c/o Cuyamel Fruit Co, New Orleans.

The area in Honduras his sons were born was noted for the growth of a particular type of banana, and the Cuyamel Fruit Company tried to compete with the prevailing United Fruit Company until the firms merged in 1929 capturing two-thirds of the U.S. banana market. Both Cuyamel and United Fruit are corporate ancestors of today's Chiquita Brands. Another competitor was Vaccaro Brothers and Company which later became part of Dole.

Mr. Hahneman's capacity with the firm is not known but the extensive travel suggests his responsibilities exceeded manual labor. On the other hand, the hotel the family stayed at in NY, the Judson Hotel, was considered low income housing.

He must have had some level of expertise, because he filed for a patent April 28, 1928 which was patented April 8, 1933 as US1753860. In the application he stated "My invention relates to an implement for introducing a primer into a hole formed in the ground for the purpose of producing canals, trenches, ditches, or the like." A diagram used in his application accompanies this memorial.

William's cemetery data is not on the computerized system; there are some records only in the old books that were never migrated to the database. His records at the cemetery are old, brittle, and in difficult handwriting, but staff interpretation of them is as follows: William was initially buried in "public land" meaning it was not family owned space; he probably had few assets. His space was then called only "Lot 9". On September 11, 1942, he was re-interred in "Lot 10" which was also probably public land. The reason for this move is not known, nor is the cemetery clear on where that lot was either. His cause of death is not easily read. The clear words were "acute hepatitis" and "carditis" and "poisoning".

This part is strictly guesswork: The "carditis" part was interpreted as being part of a word that looked like "enewcarditis" which might be "endocarditis" - that would be when bacteria or other germs from another part of your body, such as your mouth, spread through your bloodstream and attach to damaged areas in your heart. Usually people with healthy hearts don't get this. The section saying "poisoning" had a word preceding it that looked like "cyndites". One might guess that to be cyanide poisoning. If so, his lifestyle might have made that more likely. Long-term chronic exposure to smoke, as is possible in forest fires, is considered dangerous, since this gas is a natural by-product of smoke production. Liquid cyanide products such as insecticides and industrial cleaners can cause problems, and cyanide in gas form, hydrogen cyanide, is used to fumigate warehouses and the cargo areas of ships. One may wonder what farming methods were used in the banana harvest, perhaps the areas were burned periodically or there was heavy use of insecticides. Also, as a man who pursued much travel between Honduras and the U. S., perhaps he was in holds of ships that had been cyanide-gassed for cleaning. "Acute hepatitis" is usually quick-onset (2 to 26 weeks) and causes can include viral hepatitis, other viral diseases (such as glandular fever and cytomegalovirus), severe bacterial infections, amoebic infections, medicines, alcohol and fungal toxins.

William's wife traveled after his death, showing an entry into the US in 1941 where she used the last name Alvarez and said she was married, suggesting she had remarried, as her maiden name was different. She also had with her a (presumed) daughter born Dec. 24, 1930 documented as Lylia, possibly Lydia. By 1950 when their younger son registered for the draft (though he'd served 1946-1949 in the Air Force) he listed her as his "person who will always know your address" though she was living in La Lima, Honduras (which is home to the corporate headquarters of the Tela Railroad Company, a subsidiary of the Chiquita Brand). Her name then was listed as Mrs. Pastora De Alvarez. The son, William Henry lived at 3626 Constance in New Orleans and was unmarried and not employed at the time. August 5, 1927 was his date of birth in Puerto Cortez. (Interestingly but probably unrelatedly, this Constance address was at one time the home of John Murat who was questioned by the FBI in an investigation of Lee Harvey Oswald, the Murat household having received a suspicious telephone call from Texas. It may have been a mistaken effort to reach Oswald's aunt's family, the Murretts.)

William's wife was still alive and apparently living in Honduras in 1972 when their eldest son visited the country, dropping in unexpectedly. The son reportedly told her he had terminal cancer; questionable, as he finally died December 17, 1991 apparently in California per the SSDI and the CA death index. The SSDI says his last address was in Orange County, while the CA death index says he passed in Los Angeles County. An unusual record, the CA death index also states he was born in Kansas, no father or mother is listed for him. Both sources show him listed as Fredrick born 7/4/1922 leaving little doubt as to who he is.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2018, 01:34:46 PM by snowmman »
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #3890 on: December 02, 2018, 01:37:24 PM »
The above has the Lee Harvey Oswald connection. Excellent!

The son, William Henry lived at 3626 Constance in New Orleans and was unmarried and not employed at the time. August 5, 1927 was his date of birth in Puerto Cortez. (Interestingly but probably unrelatedly, this Constance address was at one time the home of John Murat who was questioned by the FBI in an investigation of Lee Harvey Oswald, the Murat household having received a suspicious telephone call from Texas. It may have been a mistaken effort to reach Oswald's aunt's family, the Murretts.)
 

FLYJACK

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #3891 on: December 02, 2018, 02:21:58 PM »
Here you go CIA Watergate Hearing..

Hahneman, E Howard Hunt, Frank Sturgis,, OH MY.. what does it mean...

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Offline georger

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #3892 on: December 02, 2018, 03:07:51 PM »
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Here you go CIA Watergate Hearing..

Hahneman, E Howard Hunt, Frank Sturgis,, OH MY.. what does it mean...

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Inquiry into the Alleged Involvement of CIA in the Watergate and Ellsberg Matters
Book Title

'Inquiry into the Alleged Involvement of CIA in the Watergate and Ellsberg Matters
Collections'

nationalsecurityarchive, additional_collections

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« Last Edit: December 02, 2018, 03:09:58 PM by georger »
 

Offline georger

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #3893 on: December 02, 2018, 03:26:28 PM »
Return to FBI doc FLY posted - who is HH in this doc? Who is the witness they are showing photos to? He is male. Could this refer to Mitchell? (It almost has to).

We know Mitchell was shown a lot of photos with emphasis on people in the Eugene region.

But, who is "HH" ?
« Last Edit: December 02, 2018, 03:38:52 PM by georger »
 

Offline georger

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #3894 on: December 02, 2018, 03:27:16 PM »
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Here's a long dissertion on the father at findagrave.com
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noting discrepancies

His death certificate says he was 48 at his passing, while his death notice says he was 45. The cemetery thought he was 43. In his travels William rather consistently stated his birth as occurring May 28, 1880 in San Francisco, which means he would have been 51. Regardless of the date used and his exact age, William died young, leaving two young sons, daughter Lylia and his immigrant wife a single mother. Perhaps the presumed hardship to them all led to the upset that would come to his elder son in 1972.

William seems to have traveled a great deal, as his oldest son would later do. Records show he came and went from New Orleans in the US and Honduras (his wife's homeland and a place of his employer) thusly:

October 1920 (dob given as San Francisco May 28, 1880) single, to stay in San Francisco.

March 1928 (dob given as San Francisco May 28, 1880) single, staying c/o Cuyomel Fruit Co in New Orleans.

July 1928 (dob given as San Francisco May 28, 1880) married - travels with wife Pastora b. March 22 1894 in Palacio Honduras, and sons Fredric W b. July 4 1922 Puerto Castilla Honduras, and son William H b. Puerto Cortez Honduras Aug 6, 1927, all to stay at the Judson Hotel in NY NY.

Dec 1928 to Jan 1929 (dob given as San Francisco May 28, 1880) married staying c/o Cuyamel Fruit Co. in New Orleans.

April 1929 (dob given as San Francisco May 28, 1880) married, travels with wife Pastora b. Vallecito Honduras March 22 1894, and son Wm H Jr. b. Aug 5 1927 in Puerto Cortes Honduras to stay in New Orleans. No sign of other son Frederic.

July 1929 (dob given as New Orleans May 28, 1880) married - staying at 3949 Chestnut St New Orleans.

Jan 1930 (dob given as San Francisco May 20, 1880) married - staying c/o Cuyamel Fruit Co, New Orleans.

The area in Honduras his sons were born was noted for the growth of a particular type of banana, and the Cuyamel Fruit Company tried to compete with the prevailing United Fruit Company until the firms merged in 1929 capturing two-thirds of the U.S. banana market. Both Cuyamel and United Fruit are corporate ancestors of today's Chiquita Brands. Another competitor was Vaccaro Brothers and Company which later became part of Dole.

Mr. Hahneman's capacity with the firm is not known but the extensive travel suggests his responsibilities exceeded manual labor. On the other hand, the hotel the family stayed at in NY, the Judson Hotel, was considered low income housing.

He must have had some level of expertise, because he filed for a patent April 28, 1928 which was patented April 8, 1933 as US1753860. In the application he stated "My invention relates to an implement for introducing a primer into a hole formed in the ground for the purpose of producing canals, trenches, ditches, or the like." A diagram used in his application accompanies this memorial.

William's cemetery data is not on the computerized system; there are some records only in the old books that were never migrated to the database. His records at the cemetery are old, brittle, and in difficult handwriting, but staff interpretation of them is as follows: William was initially buried in "public land" meaning it was not family owned space; he probably had few assets. His space was then called only "Lot 9". On September 11, 1942, he was re-interred in "Lot 10" which was also probably public land. The reason for this move is not known, nor is the cemetery clear on where that lot was either. His cause of death is not easily read. The clear words were "acute hepatitis" and "carditis" and "poisoning".

This part is strictly guesswork: The "carditis" part was interpreted as being part of a word that looked like "enewcarditis" which might be "endocarditis" - that would be when bacteria or other germs from another part of your body, such as your mouth, spread through your bloodstream and attach to damaged areas in your heart. Usually people with healthy hearts don't get this. The section saying "poisoning" had a word preceding it that looked like "cyndites". One might guess that to be cyanide poisoning. If so, his lifestyle might have made that more likely. Long-term chronic exposure to smoke, as is possible in forest fires, is considered dangerous, since this gas is a natural by-product of smoke production. Liquid cyanide products such as insecticides and industrial cleaners can cause problems, and cyanide in gas form, hydrogen cyanide, is used to fumigate warehouses and the cargo areas of ships. One may wonder what farming methods were used in the banana harvest, perhaps the areas were burned periodically or there was heavy use of insecticides. Also, as a man who pursued much travel between Honduras and the U. S., perhaps he was in holds of ships that had been cyanide-gassed for cleaning. "Acute hepatitis" is usually quick-onset (2 to 26 weeks) and causes can include viral hepatitis, other viral diseases (such as glandular fever and cytomegalovirus), severe bacterial infections, amoebic infections, medicines, alcohol and fungal toxins.

William's wife traveled after his death, showing an entry into the US in 1941 where she used the last name Alvarez and said she was married, suggesting she had remarried, as her maiden name was different. She also had with her a (presumed) daughter born Dec. 24, 1930 documented as Lylia, possibly Lydia. By 1950 when their younger son registered for the draft (though he'd served 1946-1949 in the Air Force) he listed her as his "person who will always know your address" though she was living in La Lima, Honduras (which is home to the corporate headquarters of the Tela Railroad Company, a subsidiary of the Chiquita Brand). Her name then was listed as Mrs. Pastora De Alvarez. The son, William Henry lived at 3626 Constance in New Orleans and was unmarried and not employed at the time. August 5, 1927 was his date of birth in Puerto Cortez. (Interestingly but probably unrelatedly, this Constance address was at one time the home of John Murat who was questioned by the FBI in an investigation of Lee Harvey Oswald, the Murat household having received a suspicious telephone call from Texas. It may have been a mistaken effort to reach Oswald's aunt's family, the Murretts.)

William's wife was still alive and apparently living in Honduras in 1972 when their eldest son visited the country, dropping in unexpectedly. The son reportedly told her he had terminal cancer; questionable, as he finally died December 17, 1991 apparently in California per the SSDI and the CA death index. The SSDI says his last address was in Orange County, while the CA death index says he passed in Los Angeles County. An unusual record, the CA death index also states he was born in Kansas, no father or mother is listed for him. Both sources show him listed as Fredrick born 7/4/1922 leaving little doubt as to who he is.

Care to explain where you got all of this from? What system? A public system or a private system one needs a govt. password to get into?

If Cooper had CIA connections, we have always said that would open up a whole new can of worms ...

Our Cooper now has a tie with rare earth elements on it _ and possible gov. (CIA?) connections ? What stroke of fate brings the two together or is the tie simply a prop left behind knowingly for misdirection?

Who is HH on the FBI document?
« Last Edit: December 02, 2018, 03:35:55 PM by georger »
 

FLYJACK

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #3895 on: December 02, 2018, 03:38:06 PM »
Hahneman connection to CIA...  The IGY...  DOH!

F W Hahaneman IGY member Guatemala

1959

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IGY covert operation
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"These documents establish beyond a shadow of a doubt that Bissell initiated the U.S. government effort to sponsor a civilian satellite program as part of the IGY. They push back the date of the first known mention of this subject by four and a half months, from February 1955 to September 1954, and they demonstrate that the idea originated with Bissell in the CIA and not the civilian scientists of the Technological Capabilities Panel."

 

Offline georger

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #3896 on: December 02, 2018, 03:40:10 PM »
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Hahneman connection to CIA...  The IGY...  DOH!

F W Hahaneman IGY member Guatemala

1959

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IGY covert operation
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"These documents establish beyond a shadow of a doubt that Bissell initiated the U.S. government effort to sponsor a civilian satellite program as part of the IGY. They push back the date of the first known mention of this subject by four and a half months, from February 1955 to September 1954, and they demonstrate that the idea originated with Bissell in the CIA and not the civilian scientists of the Technological Capabilities Panel."

Christ!   .................................................. here we go - maybe this was inevitable!  :rofl:

"Toto, this aint Kansas any more!"

Who is HH on the doc. Somebody please come to our rescue here!
« Last Edit: December 02, 2018, 03:49:37 PM by georger »
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #3897 on: December 02, 2018, 04:23:44 PM »
This "Honduras" memo from 5/15/72 confirms that Sub HH is Hahneman
Both Honduras hijack mention and Sub HH (handwritten) are on the memo.

Whoever they showed it to in Sumner, WA said Hahneman didn't look like Cooper.


On May 11, 1972, <redacted> Sumner, Washington, was exhibited the artist’s conception of the hijacker who recently parachuted in Honduras. He stated the individual in no way resembles "D. B. COOPER."
 
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Offline georger

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #3898 on: December 02, 2018, 04:27:36 PM »
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This "Honduras" memo from 5/15/72 confirms that Sub HH is Hahneman
Both Honduras hijack mention and Sub HH (handwritten) are on the memo.

Whoever they showed it to in Sumner, WA said Hahneman didn't look like Cooper.


On May 11, 1972, <redacted> Sumner, Washington, was exhibited the artist’s conception of the hijacker who recently parachuted in Honduras. He stated the individual in no way resembles "D. B. COOPER."


Sumner WA - Mitchell ?

How did you find this doc so quickly? Memory, filing system presorted ......... ?
« Last Edit: December 02, 2018, 04:30:47 PM by georger »
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #3899 on: December 02, 2018, 04:33:54 PM »
I suspect this was the witness in Sumner.

This text is from Geoffrey Gray's unredacted files. only match on Sumner in Gray's files.

On November 24, 1971 Mr. ROBERT B. GREGORY; Rt.1, Box 576, Sumner, Washington, telephone TH 5-1891 , was interviewed in Lounge 102, Concourse B, Seattle-Tacoma International Airport, Seattle, Washington.. He stated he is part owner and vice-president of the Cowman-Campbeli Paint Company, 5221 Ballard Avenue NW, Seattle; Washington,, telephone SU 3-8835.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2018, 04:35:12 PM by snowmman »