Author Topic: Suspects And Confessions  (Read 1511717 times)

Offline snowmman

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #3765 on: November 08, 2018, 07:14:54 PM »
Nowadays, there's a pretty straight road from Tan Son Nhat airport. About 95 km.

Add 50km to that, and probably a 145km one-way flight to the DZ.

A Huey (UH-1 Iroquois) has a 293 mile range

Bell (model 205) UH-1D (1963) had a longer fuselage than previous models, increased rotor diameter, increased range, and a more powerful Lycoming T53-L-11 1100 shp engine, with growth potential to the Lycoming T53-L-13 1400 shp engine. A distinguishing characteristic is the larger cargo doors, with twin cabin windows, on each side. The UH-1D, redesigned to carry up to 12 troops, with a crew of two, reached Vietnam in 1963.

The UH-1D has a range of 293 miles (467km) and a speed of 127 mph (110 knots)

So could the helicopter have made it to the DZ and back?
Round trip to the DZ
So 2*145km = 290km
that's 180 miles

Yeah it could...

He said the helicopter climbed to 12,000 feet
I think they limit the operational altitude to 10,000 feet on these things? The service ceiling is 20,000 feet though

So I think Sheridan got all the details realistic.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2018, 07:16:09 PM by snowmman »
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #3766 on: November 08, 2018, 08:34:31 PM »
Just reading some more about MPCs and green dollars in Vietnam during the war.

If someone was used to dealing in both MPCs and green dollars, then the idea of "negotiable currency" might make sense..
i.e. if you had a day-to-day life where some of the currency used (MPCs) wasn't worth anything out of country (out of Vietnam)..
i.e. you were used to having some non-negotiable currency...like if you moved out of Vietnam..
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #3767 on: November 09, 2018, 07:31:19 AM »
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Offline snowmman

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #3768 on: November 09, 2018, 10:54:01 AM »
Here's a bit of Cooper trivia

NOWHERE in any of the FBI FOIA docs does it mention that Cooper asked for "negotiable currency"
(I text searched all the OCR'ed docs, looking for cases where "currency" is mentioned ...and separately "negotiable")
Carr did mention it on DZ.com
(I don't think anyone will be able to prove me wrong..or ??)

The only place that is mentioned, is on page 4 of the notes Schaffner took.
Remember Carr provided those, and they are on Sluggo's site. I did a transcription of them. "?" where I'm uncertain.

Here's page 4, transcription, where "negotiable currency" is mentioned.
I wonder why the FBI didn't highlight that, like they highlighted other phrases Cooper used.
I"m assuming Cooper actually said it, and that Schaffner didn't write that down as shorthand or her own interpretation

page 4
2259 - T. called plane
being hijacked
no joke.
2202 [sic. really 2302?] - Flo in cockpit with
note
2305 - 2nd call from
Tina concerning
?prser.? has bomb
with a
2310 - wants money in
negotiable currency
to be passed ?+? a
crew member
2320 - wants everything
ready before
landing
« Last Edit: November 09, 2018, 11:18:18 AM by snowmman »
 

FLYJACK

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #3769 on: November 09, 2018, 11:07:26 AM »
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Here's a bit of Cooper trivia

NOWHERE in any of the FBI FOIA docs does it mention that Cooper asked for "negotiable currency"
Carr did mention it on DZ.com
(I don't think anyone will be able to prove me wrong..or ??)

The only place that is mentioned, is on page 4 of the notes Schaffner took.
Remember Carr provided those, and they are on Sluggo's site. I did a transcription of them. "?" where I'm uncertain.

Here's page 4, transcription, where "negotiable currency" is mentioned.
I wonder why the FBI didn't highlight that, like they highlighted other phrases Cooper used.
I"m assuming Cooper actually said it, and that Schaffner didn't write that down as shorthand or her own interpretation

page 4
2259 - T. called plane
being hijacked
no joke.
2202 [sic. really 2302?] - Flo in cockpit with
note
2305 - 2nd call from
Tina concerning
?prser.? has bomb
with a
2310 - wants money in
negotiable currency
to be passed ?+? a
crew member
2320 - wants everything
ready before
landing


Also mentioned in the crew TT..

I believe that and the use of "American" or "US" currency indicates that Cooper was a person who had a strong international influence, spending most of his time outside the US.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2018, 11:13:30 AM by FLYJACK »
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #3770 on: November 09, 2018, 11:31:23 AM »
good catch. "currency" is misspelled "currncy" there..so I missed that.
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #3771 on: November 09, 2018, 11:34:11 AM »
from the schaffner note, it sounds like "negotiable currency" was told to Tina, and Tina passed that info by phone to the cockpit..
since the note talks about a call from Tina
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #3772 on: November 09, 2018, 02:02:04 PM »
Another thing I was musing about.
Way back in the DZ.com days, I mused about whether Cooper would have been a hiker, because he wanted the money in a "knapsack"

In 2008, I posted:
"Theory: Cooper may have been closer to a hiking/camping/climbing/mountaineering/ex-military demographic than a jumping demographic

"knapsack" was used, which probably was not a widely used term in 1971. (outdoor recreational sports were not as widespread as today). "

And I was just thinking about how Sheridan listed "hiking" has a activity, in his 1962 Boeing resume (in the FBI FOIA)
attached.

He said "My favorite sports are hiking, swimming and skydiving. Up until the last two years I have been a very ardent gardener"

[this was relative to 1962, if the resume was written around when the Boeing application was filled out]

knapsack was in the original dictated note (in this FBI memo about the note, it says "in cash" ..I wonder if all the recollected versions of the note include "in cash" ??)

from a 11/30/71 FBI memo:

After <redacted> left her stewardess seat and gave the note to <redacted> sat beside the hijacker who showing the contents of the attache case, told her to, "Take this down." From her purse she obtained a pen and note pad and he dictated the following message:

"I want $200,000 by 5:00 PM in cash. Put it in a knapsack.,
I want two back parachutes and two front parachutes. When we land, I want a fuel truck ready to refuel. No funny stuff, or I'll do the job."
« Last Edit: November 09, 2018, 02:33:58 PM by snowmman »
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #3773 on: November 09, 2018, 02:24:48 PM »
One thing I noticed in Sheridan's book, that I editted out..

He used the non-American spelling for some words

-calibre instead of caliber
-humour instead of humor ...."winking good humouredly" ... he separated words that should be single words a lot too

maybe reflects his exposure to international use of English.

In the exchange where Sheridan uses the word "intrigant" that I highlighted before...
Grecco is talking to a hooker that's been proferred to him. Note Sheridan also writes "Francais" which is the French. I changed it to "Francois", but now, researching some more, I'm going to change it back to Francais.

I wonder if Sheridan was mistaken for French much.


"You American?"
"Yeah," Grecco said nodding.
"Oh, I thought you Francais? You not like American."
« Last Edit: November 09, 2018, 02:25:31 PM by snowmman »
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #3774 on: November 09, 2018, 03:39:17 PM »
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Another thing I was musing about.
Way back in the DZ.com days, I mused about whether Cooper would have been a hiker, because he wanted the money in a "knapsack"....


Your commentary made me think of what terms were used in the 1960s. My father used the term, "Musette bag" to describe the small back pack that I carried my school books. Musette is a French term, and comes from WWI, I believe. How and why he used it is unknown to me, but my family has always had a strong European tone and connection.

Nevertheless, I heard the term knapsack a lot in the 60s, in Boy Scouts and such. But I think I used the term "back pack," which could also be a full-sized pack with a frame for carrying all your gear and food for an extended time in the woods.
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #3775 on: November 09, 2018, 03:42:43 PM »
Ckret liked to claim Cooper did no planning.

But asking for a knapsack to carry the money, apparently while on the ground, or maybe also for easy/reliable attach to harness, shows some foresight.

Seems to me to also imply Cooper thought he'd be hiking out of the woods, not landing somewhere he'd get a quick ride in a car or something, or planning to bury it, etc.

I mean, if he thought he was landing somewhere not remote, he could bury/hide it, then come back later with his own knapsack.

The knapsack seems to imply thinking about preserving the money on the jump (good attach) and maybe a need to walk with it for a while after jumping.
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #3776 on: November 09, 2018, 03:43:58 PM »
I concur.
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #3777 on: November 09, 2018, 06:03:04 PM »
To be fair to Sheridan, we should let his words speak occasionally. At the very least, the Vortex can be a platform for his own thoughts he wants the world to hear.

Sheridan, 2016:

That Was Then
In essence, I whole-heartedly agree with T. Freedman's "Let's Get Busy" (Letters, Dec. 14). However, what he advocates is no longer possible. I met Harry Belafonte briefly in the 1960s. I marched with the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee led by Stokely Carmichael in downtown Jackson, Miss. I was beaten and incarcerated by the cops. I registered 35 blacks to vote in KKK-controlled Amite County, the first to ever register in that county. Yes, we won then. And, no, contrary to Belafonte, it was the rednecks that did the kicking and killing. Lots of it.

Nonviolence will be useless against the mad-dog generals Trump has brought out of retirement for his cabinet. When Trump, draft-deferred for a spur in his foot that magically disappeared, saw that those running the military were not in sympathy with him, he found those who were.

As a civilian with USAID Refugee Division in Vietnam's Mekong Delta, I did not recognize these generals' names, but I did recognize their lunatic-fringed, murder-mad faces. They looked like the captains and majors I met working with the CIA's Phoenix Program. They would tell me frequently, "If I were in charge, I'd nuke Hanoi. That would bring the war to a sudden halt." Well, they'll be in charge soon. China may feel that it's wise to strike first?

Now with hundreds, perhaps thousands, of predator-drones armed with nuke missiles, they'll put civil rights advocates like me to a sudden end. And they would not shed a single tear.

Michael Moore said that there would no longer be any elections. And there won't be.

-Sheridan Peterson
« Last Edit: November 09, 2018, 06:05:32 PM by snowmman »
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #3778 on: November 09, 2018, 06:18:53 PM »
Two years ago, Sheridan delivered a letter, with others, at the Vietnam War Memorial Wall.
He lamented his inability to publish.
His letter was included in the book "Letters to The Wall: Memorial Day Events 2015 & 2016"

He ends it with "I am anxious to see this manuscript widely distributed before I die. It may simply disappear."

Surely, there is some honor in helping Sheridan achieve his wish, expressed within the last two years so publicly?


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I, Sheridan Peterson, a World War II Marine Corps vet, spent 7 years in Vietnam as a civilian throughout the war. As a refugee advisor for USAID/CORDS in the Mekong Delta at Phu Vinh, Vinh Binh and at Cao Lanh at the Sea of Reeds, I saw America at its worst. I went to Vietnam with the express purpose of writing a literary documentary of the war and wrote a 600 page manuscript. No reputable publisher wants to peruse it.

Among so much else, I witnessed genocide frequently - napalm and white phosphorus drops on peaceful villagers, burning them to cinders. Carpet bombings, ordinary troops mutilating corpses and proudly passing the photos about. The horrors of the Phoenix Program, torture, dropping prisoners from helicopters. Hanging out at the Cheiu Hoi camps I saw the war through the eyes of the Viet Cong and NVA.

I am 90 and won't be around much longer, I have Agent Orange poisoning and the VA refuses to compensate me because I was a civilian under the command of colonel <>, Province Senior Adviser.

I am anxious to see this manuscript widely distributed before I die. It may simply disappear.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2018, 06:29:00 PM by snowmman »
 
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Offline EU

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #3779 on: November 13, 2018, 05:40:07 PM »
After reading the Oregonian piece about this latest suspect I'm struck with the fact that yet again there is nothing pointing to this guy as DBC. I've said many times before, any credible suspect has to answer some very basic but critically important questions:

1) How did he know about the 727.

2) Did he know about parachuting?

3) How did he get titanium, stainless, aluminum, rare earth elements, etc. on the tie.

4) What is it about this guy's alibi that is unverifiable?

5) Do the physical perimeters match?

6) Was he familiar with the Seattle area?

7) Does he have the personality to embark upon such a bold crime?
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

RFK