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Author Topic: Suspects And Confessions  (Read 1444048 times)

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #2205 on: February 08, 2018, 03:52:49 PM »
I find it odd that 40 retired cops believe Tom Colbert and his 100 pieces of circumstantial evidence, but no one here believes any of it.

Can anyone explain how 40 seasoned professionals can be so duped? Or are we so blind we can't see or believe the Colbert pile of "evidence."

The fact that a former assistant Director of the FBI is now trashing the Bureau (apparently) is mind-boggling. It may its own chapter in my 3rd Edition...

...and people think I'm too hard on the FBI! Givemeabreak!
« Last Edit: February 08, 2018, 03:59:26 PM by Bruce A. Smith »
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georger

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #2206 on: February 08, 2018, 03:56:49 PM »
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I find it odd that 40 retired cops believe Tom Colbert and his 100 pieces of circumstantial evidence, but no one here believes any of it.

Can anyone explain how 40 seasoned professionals can be so duped? Or are we so blind we can't see or believe the Colbert pile of "evidence."

The fact that a former assistant Director of the FBI is now trashing the Bureau (apparently) is mind-boggling. It may its own chapter in my 3rd Edition...

Once again, you seem focused exclusively on the FBI and trashing the FBI, than you do the DB Cooper case. And, this is a DB Cooper forum, not a FBI Trashing Forum ? Why dont you use the Unabomber case to trash the FBI vs the Cooper case? Just curious. How does any of your trashing the FBI solve the Cooper case?

What is your personal grudge against the FBI?

Do you always intend to stop and divert substantive discussion of the Cooper case? Maybe you need your own "Trash the FBI"  thread? Or maybe the rest of us need our own thread where we can conduct substantive discussion of the DB Cooper case without interruption?

Houston! There is a problem.
 

 
« Last Edit: February 08, 2018, 04:12:46 PM by georger »
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Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #2207 on: February 08, 2018, 04:20:49 PM »
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I find it odd that 40 retired cops believe Tom Colbert and his 100 pieces of circumstantial evidence, but no one here believes any of it.

Can anyone explain how 40 seasoned professionals can be so duped? Or are we so blind we can't see or believe the Colbert pile of "evidence."

The fact that a former assistant Director of the FBI is now trashing the Bureau (apparently) is mind-boggling. It may its own chapter in my 3rd Edition...

Once again, you seem focused exclusively on the FBI and trashing the FBI, than you do the DB Cooper case. And, this is a DB Cooper forum, not a FBI Trashing Forum ? Why dont you use the Unabomber case to trash the FBI vs the Cooper case? Just curious. How does any of your trashing the FBI solve the Cooper case?

What is your personal grudge against the FBI?

I have no personal grudge against the FBI - or any LE for that matter. In fact, I am sad to see the current trashing of the FBI by some in DC for political gain.

Rather, my words are simply an effort to hold the FBI's feet to the fire - to hold them accountable for:

1. Losing evidence

2. Not looking for the lost evidence

3. Being highly selective and discriminatory about sharing access to information - ie: the blatant disregard for the "Fair Access" doctrine to legitimate media and journalists. Eg - not returning phone calls and emails, refusing interviews, etc. - Eng, Detlor, Himms, Carr, etc. Granting direct file and evidence access to some journalists - Gray - but not others - me.

4. Sloppy record keeping and the obvious lack of adequate supervision of the case files. Ie: So many different people sat in seat 18 C according to FBI docs and Himms still touts publicly that DBC sat there. The wackiness on the parachute docs...

5. Obvious problems with the evidentiary chain of custody, and poor overall management of the physical evidence. Ie: keeping the cigarette butts in Las Vegas for 30 years, withholding the tie until November 30th, etc.

6. Maintaining a bureaucratic structure that is inadequate for solving innovative crimes that span multiple jurisdictions - the FBI simply can't connect the dots easily, and still find it hard to do.

7. Unprofessional and possibly illegal activity at the FBI crime labs, as per the DOJ investigation in 1996, and current statements by a former Supervisory Special Agent Dr. Frederick Whitehurst that reveal how those behaviors and policies might impact the Norjak investigation, ie: tampering with evidence, falsifying documents, untruthful testimony at trial, etc.

Basically, I illuminate the limitations of large LE bureaucracies in solving really tricky crimes.

Further, all of the handful of senior LE that I have spoken to about Norjak, and my frequent interaction with local LE, reveals one Big Truth about the FBI - everybody HATES them: local sheriff's deputies, DEA investigators, spooks. The overarching theme I get from those folks and from my own personal interactions with FBI agents is that the FBI is as arrogant as the day is long. And that is just the start of it.

So that colors my writing. I am eager to show the Sacred Cow status of the FBI is simply an illusion and not fully real.

Simply, the DB Cooper case illuminates the nature of the FBI. Cooper and the Bureau are inextricably intertwined - so I write about both.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2018, 04:27:46 PM by Bruce A. Smith »
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georger

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #2208 on: February 08, 2018, 05:56:05 PM »
I removed my ON TOPIC posts to make way for Bruce Smith's OFF TOPIC diatribes.

This evidently is what the Owner-Moderator of this forum wants. 

Houston we have a problem.

*If anyone recalls, the topic being discussed was _ DNA on letters! re- Rackstraw and Cooper dna.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2018, 06:12:30 PM by georger »
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Offline 377

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #2209 on: February 08, 2018, 08:13:18 PM »
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I understand that, but I'm going by what check-six stated by saying if they were proven to be written by Cooper...if that happened it would no longer be hearsay since it was proven prior to any court hearings...it would become evidence...

Lawyers would say it was hearsay admitted into evidence under the hearsay exception contained in section 804 of the Federal Rules of Evidence. But no worries Shutter, we are on the same exact page from common sense and logic standpoints. So many simple things are made needlessly complex in the law. Might it be connected to the fact that most practitioners are paid by the hour? Calling a ponderous pleading a "brief" is a cruel joke.

377
« Last Edit: February 08, 2018, 08:15:08 PM by 377 »
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Offline MarkBennett

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #2210 on: February 08, 2018, 09:16:48 PM »
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I find it odd that 40 retired cops believe Tom Colbert and his 100 pieces of circumstantial evidence, but no one here believes any of it.

Can anyone explain how 40 seasoned professionals can be so duped? Or are we so blind we can't see or believe the Colbert pile of "evidence."

The fact that a former assistant Director of the FBI is now trashing the Bureau (apparently) is mind-boggling. It may its own chapter in my 3rd Edition...

Once again, you seem focused exclusively on the FBI and trashing the FBI, than you do the DB Cooper case. And, this is a DB Cooper forum, not a FBI Trashing Forum ? Why dont you use the Unabomber case to trash the FBI vs the Cooper case? Just curious. How does any of your trashing the FBI solve the Cooper case?

What is your personal grudge against the FBI?

I have no personal grudge against the FBI - or any LE for that matter. In fact, I am sad to see the current trashing of the FBI by some in DC for political gain.

Rather, my words are simply an effort to hold the FBI's feet to the fire - to hold them accountable for:

1. Losing evidence

2. Not looking for the lost evidence

3. Being highly selective and discriminatory about sharing access to information - ie: the blatant disregard for the "Fair Access" doctrine to legitimate media and journalists. Eg - not returning phone calls and emails, refusing interviews, etc. - Eng, Detlor, Himms, Carr, etc. Granting direct file and evidence access to some journalists - Gray - but not others - me.

4. Sloppy record keeping and the obvious lack of adequate supervision of the case files. Ie: So many different people sat in seat 18 C according to FBI docs and Himms still touts publicly that DBC sat there. The wackiness on the parachute docs...

5. Obvious problems with the evidentiary chain of custody, and poor overall management of the physical evidence. Ie: keeping the cigarette butts in Las Vegas for 30 years, withholding the tie until November 30th, etc.

6. Maintaining a bureaucratic structure that is inadequate for solving innovative crimes that span multiple jurisdictions - the FBI simply can't connect the dots easily, and still find it hard to do.

7. Unprofessional and possibly illegal activity at the FBI crime labs, as per the DOJ investigation in 1996, and current statements by a former Supervisory Special Agent Dr. Frederick Whitehurst that reveal how those behaviors and policies might impact the Norjak investigation, ie: tampering with evidence, falsifying documents, untruthful testimony at trial, etc.

Basically, I illuminate the limitations of large LE bureaucracies in solving really tricky crimes.

Further, all of the handful of senior LE that I have spoken to about Norjak, and my frequent interaction with local LE, reveals one Big Truth about the FBI - everybody HATES them: local sheriff's deputies, DEA investigators, spooks. The overarching theme I get from those folks and from my own personal interactions with FBI agents is that the FBI is as arrogant as the day is long. And that is just the start of it.

So that colors my writing. I am eager to show the Sacred Cow status of the FBI is simply an illusion and not fully real.

Simply, the DB Cooper case illuminates the nature of the FBI. Cooper and the Bureau are inextricably intertwined - so I write about both.

If you Vincent Bugliosi's books "Helter Skelter", plus the preface to "OJ Did It", you goes into great detail of gross incompetence in most investigations and in everyday life.  There is an old saying to not assume malice, when incompetence could also be the reason.
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georger

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #2211 on: February 08, 2018, 11:41:54 PM »
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I find it odd that 40 retired cops believe Tom Colbert and his 100 pieces of circumstantial evidence, but no one here believes any of it.

Can anyone explain how 40 seasoned professionals can be so duped? Or are we so blind we can't see or believe the Colbert pile of "evidence."

The fact that a former assistant Director of the FBI is now trashing the Bureau (apparently) is mind-boggling. It may its own chapter in my 3rd Edition...

Once again, you seem focused exclusively on the FBI and trashing the FBI, than you do the DB Cooper case. And, this is a DB Cooper forum, not a FBI Trashing Forum ? Why dont you use the Unabomber case to trash the FBI vs the Cooper case? Just curious. How does any of your trashing the FBI solve the Cooper case?

What is your personal grudge against the FBI?

I have no personal grudge against the FBI - or any LE for that matter. In fact, I am sad to see the current trashing of the FBI by some in DC for political gain.

Rather, my words are simply an effort to hold the FBI's feet to the fire - to hold them accountable for:

1. Losing evidence

2. Not looking for the lost evidence

3. Being highly selective and discriminatory about sharing access to information - ie: the blatant disregard for the "Fair Access" doctrine to legitimate media and journalists. Eg - not returning phone calls and emails, refusing interviews, etc. - Eng, Detlor, Himms, Carr, etc. Granting direct file and evidence access to some journalists - Gray - but not others - me.

4. Sloppy record keeping and the obvious lack of adequate supervision of the case files. Ie: So many different people sat in seat 18 C according to FBI docs and Himms still touts publicly that DBC sat there. The wackiness on the parachute docs...

5. Obvious problems with the evidentiary chain of custody, and poor overall management of the physical evidence. Ie: keeping the cigarette butts in Las Vegas for 30 years, withholding the tie until November 30th, etc.

6. Maintaining a bureaucratic structure that is inadequate for solving innovative crimes that span multiple jurisdictions - the FBI simply can't connect the dots easily, and still find it hard to do.

7. Unprofessional and possibly illegal activity at the FBI crime labs, as per the DOJ investigation in 1996, and current statements by a former Supervisory Special Agent Dr. Frederick Whitehurst that reveal how those behaviors and policies might impact the Norjak investigation, ie: tampering with evidence, falsifying documents, untruthful testimony at trial, etc.

Basically, I illuminate the limitations of large LE bureaucracies in solving really tricky crimes.

Further, all of the handful of senior LE that I have spoken to about Norjak, and my frequent interaction with local LE, reveals one Big Truth about the FBI - everybody HATES them: local sheriff's deputies, DEA investigators, spooks. The overarching theme I get from those folks and from my own personal interactions with FBI agents is that the FBI is as arrogant as the day is long. And that is just the start of it.

So that colors my writing. I am eager to show the Sacred Cow status of the FBI is simply an illusion and not fully real.

Simply, the DB Cooper case illuminates the nature of the FBI. Cooper and the Bureau are inextricably intertwined - so I write about both.

If you Vincent Bugliosi's books "Helter Skelter", plus the preface to "OJ Did It", you goes into great detail of gross incompetence in most investigations and in everyday life.  There is an old saying to not assume malice, when incompetence could also be the reason.

Thus the slang  SNAFU - Situation Normal, All Fucked Up - TARFUN - Things Are Really Fucked Up Now - Houston, we have a problem - FUBAR - Fucked Up Beyond All Recognition - Burn it to the ground and start over from scratch; ...  all properties of large organizations. All of that is quite distinct from there being a actual "cover up" tracing back to some decision by someone in a large organisation. Sure you can allege a cover up but that's often the easy way out - the sloppy lazy way out. Nixon couldnt even pull off a working cover up! He was exposed and forced to resign. Hoover was finally ushered out.  :(

Other issues are at stake. Was law enforcement really ready for civil strife and air plane hijackings which surfaced in the sixties? Were agents being trained in evidence collection and handling? ........ weve been over this before. My opinion is this topic is actually too large for this small forum to handle in any credible way, given its uncertain and biased composition. There are very strong biases at work in this forum and just behind it - that is the only fact that is 100% certain!



 

« Last Edit: February 08, 2018, 11:45:32 PM by georger »
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Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #2212 on: February 09, 2018, 05:40:38 AM »
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If you Vincent Bugliosi's books "Helter Skelter", plus the preface to "OJ Did It", you goes into great detail of gross incompetence in most investigations and in everyday life.  There is an old saying to not assume malice, when incompetence could also be the reason.


I concur. Incompetence is something that I observe in many investigations. Worse though is laziness in the face of perplexing and conflicting evidence. For many LE, closing a case is more important than solving a case. As one cop put it: "We get paid the same..."
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Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #2213 on: February 09, 2018, 05:43:59 AM »
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...Other issues are at stake. Was law enforcement really ready for civil strife and air plane hijackings which surfaced in the sixties? Were agents being trained in evidence collection and handling? ........ weve been over this before. My opinion is this topic is actually too large for this small forum to handle in any credible way, given its uncertain and biased composition. There are very strong biases at work in this forum and just behind it - that is the only fact that is 100% certain!
 

I agree in general - this is not a forum about the inefficiencies of large bureaucracies to solve crimes. But it is a place - I think - to discuss how those prevailing dynamics have driven the Cooper investigation.
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Offline Check-Six

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #2214 on: February 09, 2018, 12:31:55 PM »
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... that it doesn't prove that Rackstraw was Cooper even if he wrote the letters.
But - if proven - the letters are tantamont to an repeated and uncoerced confession, which would be VERY compelling to a jury.

What say you, Check-Six? Do you think the letters received by the Sacramento Bee, The Oregonian, the NY Times, et.al, are from the Norjak hijacker?

Plus do you think the letters were written by Rackstraw? If so, why didn't he include a $20 - after all, he felt he could spare a cool $50K that he dumped into Vancouver Lake, right?

Can you shed any light on the fact that the CCT is composed of many former FBI agents and LE and they are now linked by the recent Colbert press release to a public charge that the Bureau has been conducting a cover-up on Norjak for the past 40 years? Are they comfortable with that? Is William Baker, the former Asst. Director of the FBI really comfortable with that accusation against his former agency? I've asked him in an email, but he refuses to reply. It is hard to imagine ANY former FBI employee allowing their name to be attached to a formal declaration of cover-up.

Any insights you might be able to share about the nature of the CCT would be most welcome.

Bruce, it doesn't really matter what I think - only what can be proven.
And I refuse to speak for others in this. If they aren't speaking to ya because of burnt bridges in the past, that's not on me.
But I am sure you knew that already.
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Offline MEYDC

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #2215 on: February 09, 2018, 01:53:44 PM »
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...Other issues are at stake. Was law enforcement really ready for civil strife and air plane hijackings which surfaced in the sixties? Were agents being trained in evidence collection and handling? ........ weve been over this before. My opinion is this topic is actually too large for this small forum to handle in any credible way, given its uncertain and biased composition. There are very strong biases at work in this forum and just behind it - that is the only fact that is 100% certain!
 

I agree in general - this is not a forum about the inefficiencies of large bureaucracies to solve crimes. But it is a place - I think - to discuss how those prevailing dynamics have driven the Cooper investigation.
I agree with you Bruce. I think if things were handled differently by the FBI this was a solveable case. I just hope that one day regardless if Cooper is dead or alive it is solved.
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Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #2216 on: February 09, 2018, 05:15:22 PM »
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... that it doesn't prove that Rackstraw was Cooper even if he wrote the letters.
But - if proven - the letters are tantamont to an repeated and uncoerced confession, which would be VERY compelling to a jury.

What say you, Check-Six? Do you think the letters received by the Sacramento Bee, The Oregonian, the NY Times, et.al, are from the Norjak hijacker?

Plus do you think the letters were written by Rackstraw? If so, why didn't he include a $20 - after all, he felt he could spare a cool $50K that he dumped into Vancouver Lake, right?

Can you shed any light on the fact that the CCT is composed of many former FBI agents and LE and they are now linked by the recent Colbert press release to a public charge that the Bureau has been conducting a cover-up on Norjak for the past 40 years? Are they comfortable with that? Is William Baker, the former Asst. Director of the FBI really comfortable with that accusation against his former agency? I've asked him in an email, but he refuses to reply. It is hard to imagine ANY former FBI employee allowing their name to be attached to a formal declaration of cover-up.

Any insights you might be able to share about the nature of the CCT would be most welcome.

Bruce, it doesn't really matter what I think - only what can be proven.
And I refuse to speak for others in this. If they aren't speaking to ya because of burnt bridges in the past, that's not on me.
But I am sure you knew that already.

Okay, but do you support Colbert's charge that the FBI has covered-up the Norjak case for 40 years?
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Offline 377

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #2217 on: February 09, 2018, 05:41:00 PM »
There was some good FBI sleuthing done in NORJACK and also some inexcusably sloppy work. A cover-up implies that the FBI knew who Cooper was and concealed it. I haven't seen convincing evidence that a cover-up took place. Refusing to look at new evidence isn't necessarily proof of a cover-up.

I do think spooks can, under certain circumstances, get free passes from law enforcement. Look at Ted Braden. Holy cow! He DESERTS during wartime, a gigantically serious offense. He is captured fighting as a merc in Angola. His punishment? Reinstatement in his unit with no loss of rank courtesy of Major General John K. Singlaub. What cards were held by Braden to command Singlaub's attention and such extraordinary leniency? There must be a hell of a story there.

Rackstraw, whose bravery in Vietnam combat is not disputed, lies about college degrees and is summarily discharged. Go figure.

I defended cases where the FBI was the investigating agency. I saw great work, world class in fact. I saw lazy sloppy careless work as well. It just varied by case and by SA. There was no standard, no norm. When multiple agencies were involved there was often resentment from local cops towards the "college boy" FBI SAs. One cop told me: "those jurors get so impressed with the term SPECIAL agent. Like he is some super cop. Every f***** one of them is special, there are no plain agents."

377 



« Last Edit: February 09, 2018, 05:42:08 PM by 377 »
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Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #2218 on: February 09, 2018, 06:14:15 PM »
Heh, heh...yeah, the "special" agent thingy always got me, too. That endemic animosity towards the Special Agents from the beat cops seemed to me to be routine. Some LE went out of their way to tell me how much their detested the FBI, like one DEA agent I sat next to at a Lee Child book signing. She had at least a dozen copies of Lee's most recent Jack Reacher novel to be signed for all of her hommies back in her DEA unit. Jack Reacher is the GOD of most cops... and investigative reporters, too!
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Offline MEYDC

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #2219 on: February 09, 2018, 08:46:35 PM »
I don't where to post this so moderator move this if it isn't appropriate here. I saw a video on youtube from a TV Show called the FBI Files and it was about Cooper suspect Richard McCoy here is a link 
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