Author Topic: Suspects And Confessions  (Read 1641475 times)

Offline Shutter

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #1860 on: May 29, 2017, 01:32:22 PM »
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for if planned properly, one could study maps including normal flight vectorways, and learn the area...and or do a test run  flight.

I have ran the flight path dozens of times on my simulator. the concerns I have are in the dropzone area....

You are correct, he doesn't have to be from PNW...criminal like to "case" the area prior to the crime..
« Last Edit: May 29, 2017, 01:33:59 PM by Shutter »
 

Robert99

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #1861 on: May 29, 2017, 01:35:40 PM »
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circumstantial, with suspects, more like a billion if you looked hard enough..you can't narrow a pool with  recollection, or hearsay...physical evidence can narrow a suspect, someone stating something could help and would depend on what they know. since this happened more than 4 decades ago, people who state things could possibly be wrong on there "recollection" or possibly in the game for fame, or attention, so recollection shouldn't be part of narrowing a suspect.

someone coming forward with a chute, notes, or the money could put that person on the plane. not sally saying he was missing that weekend, and looks like the sketch. so we need to narrow the pool with her recollection?

Not a billion, maybe thousands. You can narrow the pool based on what we know.

How many males the right age, description and "some" parachute experience, "some" aviation knowledge... familiar with the PNW. Take that pool and eliminate, if possible...  and match to evidence like the tie, etc.. It gives you a ranking weak circumstantial to strong.

The probability of a chute, notes, money or a body turning up is extremely slim to none.. the only reasonable chance for a solve is via the FBI forensics and if they aren't interested the DBC case likely never gets a true solve.

FLYJACK,

Even if the probability is "extremely slim to none", some money has turned up.  And the circumstances of that strongly suggest that the rest of the money ended up in the same immediate area.
 

FLYJACK

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #1862 on: May 29, 2017, 02:03:21 PM »
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circumstantial, with suspects, more like a billion if you looked hard enough..you can't narrow a pool with  recollection, or hearsay...physical evidence can narrow a suspect, someone stating something could help and would depend on what they know. since this happened more than 4 decades ago, people who state things could possibly be wrong on there "recollection" or possibly in the game for fame, or attention, so recollection shouldn't be part of narrowing a suspect.

someone coming forward with a chute, notes, or the money could put that person on the plane. not sally saying he was missing that weekend, and looks like the sketch. so we need to narrow the pool with her recollection?

Not a billion, maybe thousands. You can narrow the pool based on what we know.

How many males the right age, description and "some" parachute experience, "some" aviation knowledge... familiar with the PNW. Take that pool and eliminate, if possible...  and match to evidence like the tie, etc.. It gives you a ranking weak circumstantial to strong.

The probability of a chute, notes, money or a body turning up is extremely slim to none.. the only reasonable chance for a solve is via the FBI forensics and if they aren't interested the DBC case likely never gets a true solve.

FLYJACK,

Even if the probability is "extremely slim to none", some money has turned up.  And the circumstances of that strongly suggest that the rest of the money ended up in the same immediate area.

Sure, you can't rule out anything 100% until the suspect is placed on the plane.. we are ALL engaging in speculation to some degree until there is a true solve. That requires the FBI forensics.

All the rest of the money and the hijacker could be at or near TBAR..

..it is also possible that Tina kept the DBC cash she was given by the hijacker and discarded it later at TBAR unable to use it.

..it is also possible the TBAR cash hung up on the plane and dropped into the Columbia.

..it is also possible that the TBAR money was never part of the DBC cash. The ONLY evidence we have is that the serial numbers/order matched the Bank microform recorded sometime prior to NORJAK. If that Bank Microform was not kept accurate to the $250k and up to date the TBAR money could have come from a previous local ransom payout or other error.

 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #1863 on: May 29, 2017, 02:08:17 PM »
You could also say that you need certain things to fall into place since you have a suspect?

If you put Tina's credibility on the line, then you might have to rule everything else out from what she has stated. you can't have it both ways...

Again, we don't have the full story around the money, stating it's not Cooper cash is a huge stretch without all the evidence. Cooper serial numbers have matched, including the newly found serial numbers making this "not Cooper cash" theory faulty..
« Last Edit: May 29, 2017, 02:11:32 PM by Shutter »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #1864 on: May 29, 2017, 02:22:38 PM »
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..it is also possible the TBAR cash hung up on the plane and dropped into the Columbia.

It's also possible that the Anderson grabbed Cooper before he jumped and the money fell out later?
It's also possible Cooper discarded the money before he jumped knowing it was marked?
It's also possible the money came off when it hit the jet stream?
It's also possible he landed in the river and the money separated?
It's also possible to disregard all known evidence?
It's also possible it was a 747?

where does this end with possibilities?

you need to prove Tina was not credible in her statement about taking any money from Cooper. Tina, Tina Bar? northwest airlines, in the northwest? missing placard, but no damage to the stairs other than the side panels?
 

FLYJACK

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #1865 on: May 29, 2017, 02:37:21 PM »
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You could also say that you need certain things to fall into place since you have a suspect?

If you put Tina's credibility on the line, then you might have to rule everything else out from what she has stated. you can't have it both ways...

Again, we don't have the full story around the money, stating it's not Cooper cash is a huge stretch without all the evidence. Cooper serial numbers have matched, including the newly found serial numbers making this "not Cooper cash" theory faulty..

I completely disagree with your logic and believe you are engaging in a logical fallacy. I have a suspect and have tried to eliminate him, so far unsuccessfully but that doesn't eliminate other possibilities/suspects.

Having a strong "circumstantial" suspect doesn't invalidate an explanation or theory.

There is actually near ZERO evidence that TBAR money is DBC money. The only evidence is that serial #'s matched the serial #'s/order of bank Microform for the $250k made prior to NORJAK. There is nothing faulty here. It is a valid possibility. For TBAR to be DBC cash we must ASSUME 100% bank MICRO accuracy to $250k emergency stash for which we have ZERO evidence for. When was the MICRO created, who controlled it, who controlled the $250k???

I find that incident with Tina bizarre and incredulous, asking for some of the money, receiving it, holding it then returning it claiming she wasn't allowed gratuities..  then why ask for it?

and I am not saying TBAR cash isn't DBC cash, just looking at the evidence and the "PROOF" is really an assumption.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #1866 on: May 29, 2017, 02:43:26 PM »
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I find that incident with Tina bizarre and incredulous, asking for some of the money, receiving it, holding it then returning it claiming she wasn't allowed gratuities..  then why ask for it?

she appears to have tried to put some humor into a dangerous event, I've done similar things such as this. I don't find it odd, and yes, you are implying the money found wasn't "Cooper cash"

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it is also possible that the TBAR money was never part of the DBC cash

we are not going to go round and round with this. I'm finished from this point on. you never stop pushing...
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #1867 on: May 29, 2017, 02:57:45 PM »
The post made by Flyjack has been removed and placed in the Tina bar thread...
« Last Edit: May 29, 2017, 02:57:57 PM by Shutter »
 

FLYJACK

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #1868 on: May 29, 2017, 04:08:25 PM »
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You could also say that you need certain things to fall into place since you have a suspect?

If you put Tina's credibility on the line, then you might have to rule everything else out from what she has stated. you can't have it both ways...

Again, we don't have the full story around the money, stating it's not Cooper cash is a huge stretch without all the evidence. Cooper serial numbers have matched, including the newly found serial numbers making this "not Cooper cash" theory faulty..

I completely disagree with your logic and believe you are engaging in a logical fallacy. I have a suspect and have tried to eliminate him, so far unsuccessfully but that doesn't eliminate other possibilities/suspects.

Having a strong "circumstantial" suspect doesn't invalidate an explanation or theory.

There is actually near ZERO evidence that TBAR money is DBC money. The only evidence is that serial #'s matched the serial #'s/order of bank Microform for the $250k made prior to NORJAK. There is nothing faulty here. It is a valid possibility. For TBAR to be DBC cash we must ASSUME 100% bank MICRO accuracy to $250k emergency stash for which we have ZERO evidence for. When was the MICRO created, who controlled it, who controlled the $250k???

I find that incident with Tina bizarre and incredulous, asking for some of the money, receiving it, holding it then returning it claiming she wasn't allowed gratuities..  then why ask for it?

and I am not saying TBAR cash isn't DBC cash, just looking at the evidence and the "PROOF" is really an assumption.

All of the laws of Physics are an "assumption" under your rules!  :))  According to your logic gravity does not exist!

There seems to be a gap in your understanding ... or you are selling a better mousetrap?

We have spent inordinate time on your leveraged fiction. You mentioned long ago your suspect had a bank box full of DBC banknotes. Save the world some time PLEASE! and just produce 3 bundolas that are bank MICRO not DBC cash! It should be simple task for yawl!  :-*

I am sure you can think of some way to squirm out of your former certainty! Maybe Cooper was a werewolf? Who knows! Anything is possible.  :D

Georger,

That is nonsense, mockery isn't an argument it is a denial mechanism.. you are smarter than that.

My suspect never had a bank box of money, that was an American who had abandoned cash in Canada, NOT my suspect. So, you have your facts wrong.

All I am doing is testing assumptions with the facts and everyone, including myself had elevated an assumption to a fact..

YOU of all people are constantly demands FACTS, now what facts are there to PROVE TBAR money is DBC cash?

The ser#'s/order match the Bank's pre NORJAK MICRO.  That is it.

Sir, it is you who hasnt proven your case.

You have been highly disruptive!

Shutter please remove this idiot from this forum.

Actually, I have proven that there isn't evidence that TBAR cash is 100% DBC money but rather an assumption based on the bank's MICRO. But people have believed it as fact for so long that they can't accept it. TBAR cash may be DBC cash but the evidence isn't there as WE had believed.
 

MeyerLouie

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #1869 on: May 29, 2017, 05:11:01 PM »
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James Klansnic doesn't fit the DBC evidence..

DBC needed to be shown how to operate the main airstair control by Tina, he failed to get the main to work probably because you need to press the button on top of the lever. DBC then used the emergency release.

That doesn't sound like a Boeing engineer and expert.

Broader point, all suspects will be circumstantial unless they can be put on the plane and that can only be done by the FBI,,, so probably never.


The FBI is the only outfit that can possibly put Cooper on the plane?  How about NWA?  How about individuals -- where things finally come together because of some recollection?  Remote, but possible.

Some recollection wouldn't be proof... it would help narrow the pool of suspects. Only forensics can put a suspect on the plane and get a true solve.

There are probably thousands of "circumstantial" suspects still out there, some just stronger than others.

To solve, you need the FBI and their mandate is a prosecution. If DBC is dead no prosecution and no solve. So, as time passes we are stuck in a "circumstantial" public solve unless one can convince the FBI to check forensics on a suspect with overwhelming circumstantial evidence. NOT easy.


Okay FLYJACK, I see what you're saying.....
Meyer
 

Offline dice

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #1870 on: May 29, 2017, 06:30:00 PM »
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There is actually near ZERO evidence that TBAR money is DBC mon
I find that incident with bizarre and incredulous, asking for some of the money, receiving it, holding it then returning it claiming she wasn't allowed gratuities..  then why ask for it?
Fly.... thats totally overthinking things...  Mucklow was trying to assuage a very tense situation,  with that comment....there's nothing there....
« Last Edit: May 30, 2017, 07:10:11 PM by Shutter »
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FLYJACK

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #1871 on: May 29, 2017, 09:46:03 PM »
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Fly.... thats totally overthinking things...  Mucklow was trying to assuage a very tense situation,  with that comment....there's nothing there....

I know Tina's claim was that she was being humorous, asking for some money. It may be all true and innocent, but it just seems bizarre to me. To ask for the money, take it then return it and claim no gratuities allowed recalling company policy, it wasn't just a gratuity it was ransom money. This seems odd. It was the only time she was being humorous. She also claimed the money (which she held in her hands) was in bank-style bands contrary to other evidence. Her demeanour was a little sheepish in news footage as well.

Sometimes people make up stories to cover for their actions just in case, her prints are on some of the money. There is no evidence she did anything wrong but that particular story is as fishy as fishy gets.. IMO, it sounds like it may be deceptive in some way as though she was covering for the possibility that her prints might be later found on some cash.

Never automatically trust what "witnesses" say, look at actions. She (claimed she) took the package of money from the hijacker, why didn't she refuse it and quote her company policy. Did she take the earlier tip from the hijacker and then return it or just refuse it per company policy.
 

Offline MarkBennett

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #1872 on: May 29, 2017, 11:03:19 PM »
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Fly.... thats totally overthinking things...  Mucklow was trying to assuage a very tense situation,  with that comment....there's nothing there....

I know Tina's claim was that she was being humorous, asking for some money. It may be all true and innocent, but it just seems bizarre to me. To ask for the money, take it then return it and claim no gratuities allowed recalling company policy, it wasn't just a gratuity it was ransom money. This seems odd. It was the only time she was being humorous. She also claimed the money (which she held in her hands) was in bank-style bands contrary to other evidence. Her demeanour was a little sheepish in news footage as well.

Sometimes people make up stories to cover for their actions just in case, her prints are on some of the money. There is no evidence she did anything wrong but that particular story is as fishy as fishy gets.. IMO, it sounds like it may be deceptive in some way as though she was covering for the possibility that her prints might be later found on some cash.

Never automatically trust what "witnesses" say, look at actions. She (claimed she) took the package of money from the hijacker, why didn't she refuse it and quote her company policy. Did she take the earlier tip from the hijacker and then return it or just refuse it per company policy.

It's very difficult to read these statements and get the whole context, so it's hard to draw any conclusions.  This was an absolutely terrifying position for all of the crew -- Tina didn't know if she was going to be asked to jump with the hijacker and the crew didn't know if plane would drop below stall speed and crash.  Trying to lighten the mood to survive seems more likely.

It's too bad she didn't take the money.  Might have had fingerprints on it.

 

Offline dice

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #1873 on: May 29, 2017, 11:33:29 PM »
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Fly.... thats totally overthinking things...  Mucklow was trying to assuage a very tense situation,  with that comment....there's nothing there....

I know Tina's claim was that she was being humorous, asking for some money. It may be all true and innocent, but it just seems bizarre to me. To ask for the money, take it then return it and claim no gratuities allowed recalling company policy, it wasn't just a gratuity it was ransom money. This seems odd. It was the only time she was being humorous. She also claimed the money (which she held in her hands) was in bank-style bands contrary to other evidence. Her demeanour was a little sheepish in news footage as well.

Sometimes people make up stories to cover for their actions just in case, her prints are on some of the money. There is no evidence she did anything wrong but that particular story is as fishy as fishy gets.. IMO, it sounds like it may be deceptive in some way as though she was covering for the possibility that her prints might be later found on some cash.

Never automatically trust what "witnesses" say, look at actions. She (claimed she) took the package of money from the hijacker, why didn't she refuse it and quote her company policy. Did she take the earlier tip from the hijacker and then return it or just refuse it per company policy.

Remember she was 22 years old... From the east coast yet living on the west coast.... I would say her behavior was beyond superb and mature at the conference, not sheepish.   heck, a 22 year old stewardess today would have been dazed, checking her phone every two minutes, saying the word "like" five times a sentence, answering other questions than asked etc....

Now, if one wants to imply a possible covert CIA black OP of the entire caper,well, Ithats another discussion. and your talk about the money could fit that theory.... for this was during great national unrest with vietnam,with the public protesting,rioting,  etc, and there were alot of Black ops the CIA was doing yet couldn't get the funding from the public taxpayer via Congress...this is precisely why the CIA had to delve in the overseas drug trade,to fund some of these very necessary earmarked missions. And this operates outside the US banking system to which these dollars are called Eurodollars, and would never show up in the  search unless repatriated. Maybe caper did involve that Rackstraw like Colbert says (but on the ground) and that the money was planted etc....   many aspects of the caper could point to this, of the no solve,the no talk by any relative by now, NO TRACE, etc... I do think in this realm the money issue has a real place, but not involving Mucklow. They wouldn't use someone so young. 
« Last Edit: May 29, 2017, 11:54:07 PM by diclemeg »
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Offline Kermit

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #1874 on: May 29, 2017, 11:46:24 PM »

No wonder Tina won't talk to anyone ! Pretty absurd to think that she had anything to do with this. Perhaps if people had treated her with respect, she might be far more cooperative now. JMHO
 
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