Author Topic: Suspects And Confessions  (Read 1641420 times)

Offline dice

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 268
  • Thanked: 40 times
Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #1830 on: May 28, 2017, 11:03:10 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Are we forgetting Cooper was told how to operate the stairs, had trouble with the stairs, and documents show the possibility of directions given to him about the stairs?

When did Cooper become a Boeing engineer?

I was once an airbag mechanical engineer for Allied Signal....on the team that pioneered them in the Italian market...yet  I still have trouble opening the damn trunk of my wife's Jaguar, not knowing where the release or button was...

Car airbags?

Yes
Purdue 38  Iowa 36
 

Offline Shutter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9300
  • Thanked: 1025 times
Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #1831 on: May 28, 2017, 11:08:39 PM »
That sounds like an interesting job....cool, I might add  O0
« Last Edit: May 28, 2017, 11:10:31 PM by Shutter »
 

Offline dice

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 268
  • Thanked: 40 times
Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #1832 on: May 28, 2017, 11:18:45 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
That's sounds like an interesting job....cool, I might add  O0
Oh boy...it sure was.   First we'd get to go to near lake Geneva Wisconsin and first strip down a new vehicles that were still a year or two from the mkt, then crash it into wall and record the event with test dummies....
and then get to go to Italy and mingle with the Fiat engineers....
But even this afternoon, I mess up opening the trunk. Apparently on the FPace u have to tap the keyfob once and it fully opens....  I could tell you the workings of the transmitter, the mechanism that lifts the tailgate, etc... but it can be done in several ways.. and Cooper may not have known he had to push a release the first time he had to use it  sometimes shifters are designed counterintuitively,and when ones mind is occupied on the macro, sometimes we engineers lose sight of the micro...
Purdue 38  Iowa 36
 

georger

  • Guest
Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #1833 on: May 28, 2017, 11:28:04 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Are we forgetting Cooper was told how to operate the stairs, had trouble with the stairs, and documents show the possibility of directions given to him about the stairs?

When did Cooper become a Boeing engineer?

I was once an airbag mechanical engineer for Allied Signal....on the team that pioneered them in the Italian market...yet  I still have trouble opening the damn trunk of my wife's Jaguar, not knowing where the release or button was...
 An engineer cannot be expected to know offhand all operability of every working part of the machine at first glance, though it can be assumed one fundamentally knows the all functionality of every working part....
This would be no different to a Boeing engineer with his career in the braking or flap system.  He will likely fundamentally know the working of the aft stairs if told it's power source, but first time seeing might not know how to operate it..

I know exactly what you're talking about, see it every day. And the reverse is also true. I saw the whole work force change in the 60s from military trained people to 'credentialed' people who couldnt figure out what switch to throw! I saw it impact every walk of life. Finding credentialed people with actual work experience became a huge problem into the 70s. It actually shut down programs at places like NASA, Bendix, and JPL... so the disconnect is real. Was Cooper one of those? He lived right through the transition period.

Maybe Cooper's grudge was against 'managers' and 'politicians'? It was Congress that mandated many of the work force requirement changes that devastated everything from education to who a city can hire to pick up the garbage!


« Last Edit: May 28, 2017, 11:40:11 PM by georger »
 

Offline dice

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 268
  • Thanked: 40 times
Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #1834 on: May 28, 2017, 11:38:04 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Are we forgetting Cooper was told how to operate the stairs, had trouble with the stairs, and documents show the possibility of directions given to him about the stairs?

When did Cooper become a Boeing engineer?

I was once an airbag mechanical engineer for Allied Signal....on the team that pioneered them in the Italian market...yet  I still have trouble opening the damn trunk of my wife's Jaguar, not knowing where the release or button was...
 An engineer cannot be expected to know offhand all operability of every working part of the machine at first glance, though it can be assumed one fundamentally knows the all functionality of every working part....
This would be no different to a Boeing engineer with his career in the braking or flap system.  He will likely fundamentally know the working of the aft stairs if told it's power source, but first time seeing might not know how to operate it..

I know exactly what you're talking about, see it every day. And the reverse is also true. I saw the whole work force change in the 60s from military trained people to 'credentialed' people who couldnt figure out what switch to throw! I saw it impact every walk of life. Finding credentialed people with actual work experience became a huge problem into the 70s. It actually shut down programs at places like NASA, Bendix, and JPL... so the disconnect is real. Was Cooper one of those? He lived right through the transition period.

Maybe Cooper's grudge was against 'managers' ?

Quite possibly, sure... the old school guys dont want to be marginalized, heck, especially those who took it on the chin in world war 2 with real risk and combat..these were real men.... And if Cooper was say, rendered obsolete by what he probably viewed as girly men who stayed behind and not sent to Nam...well, imagine the emotion there..... that'd be enough for me..... Tie that in with a midlife crisis and look out...😊

And I hope I'm not coming across like a moron here...for I'm used to a simple electronic switch release of the tailgate, with gravity pressurized pistons (that leak over time then slam my forhead on them) raising the gate... my mind is on something else, and Am not thinking of an electronic servo motor slowly opening it on command...nor where the illogical place in the cabin the Indian designer at Tata Motors (who now own Jaguar) decided to put the release button. 
« Last Edit: May 28, 2017, 11:48:52 PM by diclemeg »
Purdue 38  Iowa 36
 

georger

  • Guest
Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #1835 on: May 28, 2017, 11:56:10 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Are we forgetting Cooper was told how to operate the stairs, had trouble with the stairs, and documents show the possibility of directions given to him about the stairs?

When did Cooper become a Boeing engineer?

I was once an airbag mechanical engineer for Allied Signal....on the team that pioneered them in the Italian market...yet  I still have trouble opening the damn trunk of my wife's Jaguar, not knowing where the release or button was...
 An engineer cannot be expected to know offhand all operability of every working part of the machine at first glance, though it can be assumed one fundamentally knows the all functionality of every working part....
This would be no different to a Boeing engineer with his career in the braking or flap system.  He will likely fundamentally know the working of the aft stairs if told it's power source, but first time seeing might not know how to operate it..

I know exactly what you're talking about, see it every day. And the reverse is also true. I saw the whole work force change in the 60s from military trained people to 'credentialed' people who couldnt figure out what switch to throw! I saw it impact every walk of life. Finding credentialed people with actual work experience became a huge problem into the 70s. It actually shut down programs at places like NASA, Bendix, and JPL... so the disconnect is real. Was Cooper one of those? He lived right through the transition period.

Maybe Cooper's grudge was against 'managers' ?

Quite possibly, sure... the old school guys dont want to be marginalized, heck, especially those who took it on the chin in world war 2 with real risk and combat..these were real men.... And if Cooper was say, rendered obsolete by what he probably viewed as girly men who stayed behind and not sent to Nam...well, imagine the emotion there..... that'd be enough for me..... Tie that in with a midlife crisis and look out...😊

And I hope I'm not coming across like a moron here...for I'm used to a simple electronic switch release of the tailgate, with gravity pressurized pistons (that leak over time then slam my forhead on them) raising the gate... my mind is on something else, and Am not thinking of an electronic servo motor slowly opening it on command...nor where the illogical place in the cabin the Indian designer at Tata Motors (who now own Jaguar) decided to put the release button.

What you're talking about is not only real, it characterizes the actual period in which the hijacking occurred in.

Virtually everyone I knew back then thought the Cooper hijacking was political - it was everyone's first choice.
 

Robert99

  • Guest
Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #1836 on: May 29, 2017, 12:03:00 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Are we forgetting Cooper was told how to operate the stairs, had trouble with the stairs, and documents show the possibility of directions given to him about the stairs?

When did Cooper become a Boeing engineer?

I was once an airbag mechanical engineer for Allied Signal....on the team that pioneered them in the Italian market...yet  I still have trouble opening the damn trunk of my wife's Jaguar, not knowing where the release or button was...
 An engineer cannot be expected to know offhand all operability of every working part of the machine at first glance, though it can be assumed one fundamentally knows the all functionality of every working part....
This would be no different to a Boeing engineer with his career in the braking or flap system.  He will likely fundamentally know the working of the aft stairs if told it's power source, but first time seeing might not know how to operate it..

I know exactly what you're talking about, see it every day. And the reverse is also true. I saw the whole work force change in the 60s from military trained people to 'credentialed' people who couldnt figure out what switch to throw! I saw it impact every walk of life. Finding credentialed people with actual work experience became a huge problem into the 70s. It actually shut down programs at places like NASA, Bendix, and JPL... so the disconnect is real. Was Cooper one of those? He lived right through the transition period.

Maybe Cooper's grudge was against 'managers' ?

Quite possibly, sure... the old school guys dont want to be marginalized, heck, especially those who took it on the chin in world war 2 with real risk and combat..these were real men.... And if Cooper was say, rendered obsolete by what he probably viewed as girly men who stayed behind and not sent to Nam...well, imagine the emotion there..... that'd be enough for me..... Tie that in with a midlife crisis and look out...😊

And I hope I'm not coming across like a moron here...for I'm used to a simple electronic switch release of the tailgate, with gravity pressurized pistons (that leak over time then slam my forhead on them) raising the gate... my mind is on something else, and Am not thinking of an electronic servo motor slowly opening it on command...nor where the illogical place in the cabin the Indian designer at Tata Motors (who now own Jaguar) decided to put the release button.

Relax!  You have plenty of company.  There is a car setting in my garage at this very moment with 15 miles showing on the odometer.  It has a button on the "entertainment display" that says "clock" and I can push that and see how to set the clock and have done so.

The question is how do you set the "date", and it has to be associated with the "clock" display in some respect.  But there is nothing on the dash, on the clock screen, or even in the handbook (!), about setting the date.  I'll probably have to stop by the dealer and hope that they can show me how to plug in the correct date. :(
 

Offline MarkBennett

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 467
  • Thanked: 26 times
Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #1837 on: May 29, 2017, 12:11:13 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Are we forgetting Cooper was told how to operate the stairs, had trouble with the stairs, and documents show the possibility of directions given to him about the stairs?

When did Cooper become a Boeing engineer?

I was once an airbag mechanical engineer for Allied Signal....on the team that pioneered them in the Italian market...yet  I still have trouble opening the damn trunk of my wife's Jaguar, not knowing where the release or button was...
 An engineer cannot be expected to know offhand all operability of every working part of the machine at first glance, though it can be assumed one fundamentally knows the all functionality of every working part....
This would be no different to a Boeing engineer with his career in the braking or flap system.  He will likely fundamentally know the working of the aft stairs if told it's power source, but first time seeing might not know how to operate it..

I know exactly what you're talking about, see it every day. And the reverse is also true. I saw the whole work force change in the 60s from military trained people to 'credentialed' people who couldnt figure out what switch to throw! I saw it impact every walk of life. Finding credentialed people with actual work experience became a huge problem into the 70s. It actually shut down programs at places like NASA, Bendix, and JPL... so the disconnect is real. Was Cooper one of those? He lived right through the transition period.

Maybe Cooper's grudge was against 'managers' ?

Quite possibly, sure... the old school guys dont want to be marginalized, heck, especially those who took it on the chin in world war 2 with real risk and combat..these were real men.... And if Cooper was say, rendered obsolete by what he probably viewed as girly men who stayed behind and not sent to Nam...well, imagine the emotion there..... that'd be enough for me..... Tie that in with a midlife crisis and look out...😊

And I hope I'm not coming across like a moron here...for I'm used to a simple electronic switch release of the tailgate, with gravity pressurized pistons (that leak over time then slam my forhead on them) raising the gate... my mind is on something else, and Am not thinking of an electronic servo motor slowly opening it on command...nor where the illogical place in the cabin the Indian designer at Tata Motors (who now own Jaguar) decided to put the release button.

Relax!  You have plenty of company.  There is a car setting in my garage at this very moment with 15 miles showing on the odometer.  It has a button on the "entertainment display" that says "clock" and I can push that and see how to set the clock and have done so.

The question is how do you set the "date", and it has to be associated with the "clock" display in some respect.  But there is nothing on the dash, on the clock screen, or even in the handbook (!), about setting the date.  I'll probably have to stop by the dealer and hope that they can show me how to plug in the correct date. :(

That's funny...There was an NFL Network documentary on Bill Belichick, coach of the Patriots who owns seven Super Bowl rings.  There is one scene in there where he laments that he can't figure out how to set the clock in his car.....
 

Offline dice

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 268
  • Thanked: 40 times
Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #1838 on: May 29, 2017, 12:16:16 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Are we forgetting Cooper was told how to operate the stairs, had trouble with the stairs, and documents show the possibility of directions given to him about the stairs?

When did Cooper become a Boeing engineer?

I was once an airbag mechanical engineer for Allied Signal....on the team that pioneered them in the Italian market...yet  I still have trouble opening the damn trunk of my wife's Jaguar, not knowing where the release or button was...
 An engineer cannot be expected to know offhand all operability of every working part of the machine at first glance, though it can be assumed one fundamentally knows the all functionality of every working part....
This would be no different to a Boeing engineer with his career in the braking or flap system.  He will likely fundamentally know the working of the aft stairs if told it's power source, but first time seeing might not know how to operate it..

I know exactly what you're talking about, see it every day. And the reverse is also true. I saw the whole work force change in the 60s from military trained people to 'credentialed' people who couldnt figure out what switch to throw! I saw it impact every walk of life. Finding credentialed people with actual work experience became a huge problem into the 70s. It actually shut down programs at places like NASA, Bendix, and JPL... so the disconnect is real. Was Cooper one of those? He lived right through the transition period.

Maybe Cooper's grudge was against 'managers' ?

Quite possibly, sure... the old school guys dont want to be marginalized, heck, especially those who took it on the chin in world war 2 with real risk and combat..these were real men.... And if Cooper was say, rendered obsolete by what he probably viewed as girly men who stayed behind and not sent to Nam...well, imagine the emotion there..... that'd be enough for me..... Tie that in with a midlife crisis and look out...😊

And I hope I'm not coming across like a moron here...for I'm used to a simple electronic switch release of the tailgate, with gravity pressurized pistons (that leak over time then slam my forhead on them) raising the gate... my mind is on something else, and Am not thinking of an electronic servo motor slowly opening it on command...nor where the illogical place in the cabin the Indian designer at Tata Motors (who now own Jaguar) decided to put the release button.

Relax!  You have plenty of company.  There is a car setting in my garage at this very moment with 15 miles showing on the odometer.  It has a button on the "entertainment display" that says "clock" and I can push that and see how to set the clock and have done so.

The question is how do you set the "date", and it has to be associated with the "clock" display in some respect.  But there is nothing on the dash, on the clock screen, or even in the handbook (!), about setting the date.  I'll probably have to stop by the dealer and hope that they can show me how to plug in the correct date. :(
If it is a digital clock, and only one button then it may be holding it down.  I recall I think my mustang having to hold down a clock button then using the radio memory buttons in unison. 

I do think Cooper might deserve a pass with not knowing safety release, and at same time be given far more credit for pulling it off in it's entirety.... I think he planned it and used deception, much more than given credit.  For instance... Since he pulled off what I consider the greatest heist ever,  having said that I think he use more wits... that he had a driver follow a pre planned route... He told them to fly south to mecx city but I'd bet he knew he was departing early, and knew the corridor would be the Reno one and/or planned to divert after takeoff... this  would delay those waiting for him on ground... And having planned it all he'd have known the topography toward Reno and know to wait until the trees clear and a safe spot...He'd know they'd radio ahead after he jumped so to throw them off he could have bounced on the stairs to simulate a jump...and maybe the real jump later, timing the oscillation and diving out, sending everyone looking in wrong place..he had to know they'd be waiting for him so this deception was critical, maybe even THE most important part of the caper, was the getaway.  Maybe even that squidding maneuver.  But to do all this only to be waiting on way down....he got away with it so I'd lean toward a driver and deception in the jump.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2017, 12:40:53 AM by diclemeg »
Purdue 38  Iowa 36
 

Robert99

  • Guest
Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #1839 on: May 29, 2017, 12:18:58 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Are we forgetting Cooper was told how to operate the stairs, had trouble with the stairs, and documents show the possibility of directions given to him about the stairs?

When did Cooper become a Boeing engineer?

I was once an airbag mechanical engineer for Allied Signal....on the team that pioneered them in the Italian market...yet  I still have trouble opening the damn trunk of my wife's Jaguar, not knowing where the release or button was...
 An engineer cannot be expected to know offhand all operability of every working part of the machine at first glance, though it can be assumed one fundamentally knows the all functionality of every working part....
This would be no different to a Boeing engineer with his career in the braking or flap system.  He will likely fundamentally know the working of the aft stairs if told it's power source, but first time seeing might not know how to operate it..

I know exactly what you're talking about, see it every day. And the reverse is also true. I saw the whole work force change in the 60s from military trained people to 'credentialed' people who couldnt figure out what switch to throw! I saw it impact every walk of life. Finding credentialed people with actual work experience became a huge problem into the 70s. It actually shut down programs at places like NASA, Bendix, and JPL... so the disconnect is real. Was Cooper one of those? He lived right through the transition period.

Maybe Cooper's grudge was against 'managers' ?

Quite possibly, sure... the old school guys dont want to be marginalized, heck, especially those who took it on the chin in world war 2 with real risk and combat..these were real men.... And if Cooper was say, rendered obsolete by what he probably viewed as girly men who stayed behind and not sent to Nam...well, imagine the emotion there..... that'd be enough for me..... Tie that in with a midlife crisis and look out...😊

And I hope I'm not coming across like a moron here...for I'm used to a simple electronic switch release of the tailgate, with gravity pressurized pistons (that leak over time then slam my forhead on them) raising the gate... my mind is on something else, and Am not thinking of an electronic servo motor slowly opening it on command...nor where the illogical place in the cabin the Indian designer at Tata Motors (who now own Jaguar) decided to put the release button.

Relax!  You have plenty of company.  There is a car setting in my garage at this very moment with 15 miles showing on the odometer.  It has a button on the "entertainment display" that says "clock" and I can push that and see how to set the clock and have done so.

The question is how do you set the "date", and it has to be associated with the "clock" display in some respect.  But there is nothing on the dash, on the clock screen, or even in the handbook (!), about setting the date.  I'll probably have to stop by the dealer and hope that they can show me how to plug in the correct date. :(

That's funny...There was an NFL Network documentary on Bill Belichick, coach of the Patriots who owns seven Super Bowl rings.  There is one scene in there where he laments that he can't figure out how to set the clock in his car.....

And I haven't even gotten to the satellite radio system, the CD player, and the car's Internet system yet. :)
 

Offline Shutter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9300
  • Thanked: 1025 times
Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #1840 on: May 29, 2017, 12:32:26 AM »
when I get stumped with almost anything, believe it or not, You Tube is the second largest search engine full of those aggravating issues we have..automotive is huge on YT...

How about the 80's with the flashing 12:00 on everyone's VCR'S  O0 I could figure them out pretty easily, so I always set them when I seen them flashing...
« Last Edit: May 29, 2017, 12:38:29 AM by Shutter »
 

Offline Kermit

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 361
  • Thanked: 108 times
Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #1841 on: May 29, 2017, 12:49:11 AM »
I guess it's because I'm kinda new here but where does this " Cooper's Grudge " keep popping up from ?
 

Offline Shutter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9300
  • Thanked: 1025 times
Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #1842 on: May 29, 2017, 12:52:28 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I guess it's because I'm kinda new here but where does this " Cooper's Grudge " keep popping up from ?

It was a reply to Tina, he told her he didn't have a grudge against the airline, he just had a grudge...
 

Offline Shutter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9300
  • Thanked: 1025 times
Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #1843 on: May 29, 2017, 12:58:14 AM »
She asked him why he had chose Northwest to hijack, he replied he didn't have a "grudge" against the airline adding that the Northwest airplane just happened to be in the right place at the right time...

This quickly rules out anyone from Northwest airlines  8)
« Last Edit: May 29, 2017, 12:59:41 AM by Shutter »
 

MeyerLouie

  • Guest
Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #1844 on: May 29, 2017, 01:07:18 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
James Klansnic doesn't fit the DBC evidence..

DBC needed to be shown how to operate the main airstair control by Tina, he failed to get the main to work probably because you need to press the button on top of the lever. DBC then used the emergency release.

That doesn't sound like a Boeing engineer and expert.

Broader point, all suspects will be circumstantial unless they can be put on the plane and that can only be done by the FBI,,, so probably never.


The FBI is the only outfit that can possibly put Cooper on the plane?  How about NWA?  How about individuals -- where things finally come together because of some recollection?  Remote, but possible.