Author Topic: Suspects And Confessions  (Read 1641115 times)

FLYJACK

  • Guest
Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #1665 on: February 01, 2017, 01:46:47 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I'm just not interested. when someone can verify something, perhaps it will interest me.

Does Jo Weber post on this forum?  She says LeClair is Weber.  After seeing a photo of Weber for the first time, I was taken aback by the size of his ears... surely that was a huge identification of him, by the witnesses... which makes me wonder now, if Weber was LeClair, with Gunther's "mouse" reference (as in Mickey Mouse ears) but just not actually Cooper, and that Clara actually is the lady Jo says she was, but that Clara got it wrong, completely. I saw the years of her postings on DZ but didn't see any reference to the gigantic ears, and how/why her reasoning for how it could have escaped the witness reports.

I spoke with Bill Mitchell in a few emails and in person when Mark Bennett and I met him for lunch. Regarding Weber, he said he would have noticed the ears being that big. He told me that he does not remember big ears. He only remembers the hijacker having the saggy skin under the chin and he always thought they had the composite drawing was thinner than what he remembered. 

Here is what Bill Mitchell said in an email to me about Weber, "  BTW I'm thinking Jo Weber (text deleted by me)!  I told her that I didn't think her husband was D.B Cooper and she didn't believe me."

Do you still have contact with Bill Mitchell, I have suspect images including profile and he does have a "saggy turkey neck".. dark
slightly marcelled hair.. closely matches the composite

any way to have him look at them..

I replied to your PM...He would like to stay private.

His memory is faded and can't say, "that's the guy". He only remembers features. He thought the FBI sketch portrayed the hijacker with a thinner face than he remembered.

Vicki, has anyone ever asked Mitchell about Cooper's speech patterns ... how it struck him?

And Mitchell's raw impression about the man looking American or foreign.

Maybe Mark B can add to this. Mark and I met him for lunch the day I filmed for the History Channel (September 24, 2015). He only remembers certain features of the hijacker. He did not specify speech or if he looked foreign. At the time I did not ask. However, in an email to me he stated this about my father:

Here is the reply after seeing photos and videos of Melvin Wilson.

Hi Vicki,
I'm not ignoring you, I'm just been thinking and pondering my response. Again it was 43 years ago and I don't have the clear picture in my mind.  But I do remember my reaction to certain things. (as I told the FBI, I was a sophomore at University of Oregon and couldn't understand why this older guy was getting all the attention from the flight attendant!! I checked him out pretty well )
 
OK this is what I've come up with, On the plus side his cheeks, chin and neck looked more like what I thought he looked like.  I had always thought the composite drawing had his face to thin. That isn't much but that is best I can do.  I'll keep looking at the pictures and see if something else comes up.

My thought is that I probably wouldn't take this to the FBI with just my recollection of D.B. and the pictures of your Dad. I mean 43 years is a long time..  But I feel for your need to know and urgency of trying to find out about your Dad. You certainly can use my name and my thoughts on the pictures of your Dad with the FBI.  Several other people have contacted me using lawyers and newspaper people to try and get answers with the FBI.
 
Let me know if there is anything else you need or that I can do.

Bill.


Bill Michell gave a fantastic radio interview a few years back, I have it on my computer in mp3 but can't find a public link to it..
 

Offline Shutter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9300
  • Thanked: 1025 times
Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #1666 on: February 01, 2017, 01:55:53 PM »
post it to You Tube, or Google Drive...
 
The following users thanked this post: EVickiW

Offline MarkBennett

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 467
  • Thanked: 26 times
Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #1667 on: February 01, 2017, 02:04:15 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I'm just not interested. when someone can verify something, perhaps it will interest me.

Does Jo Weber post on this forum?  She says LeClair is Weber.  After seeing a photo of Weber for the first time, I was taken aback by the size of his ears... surely that was a huge identification of him, by the witnesses... which makes me wonder now, if Weber was LeClair, with Gunther's "mouse" reference (as in Mickey Mouse ears) but just not actually Cooper, and that Clara actually is the lady Jo says she was, but that Clara got it wrong, completely. I saw the years of her postings on DZ but didn't see any reference to the gigantic ears, and how/why her reasoning for how it could have escaped the witness reports.

I spoke with Bill Mitchell in a few emails and in person when Mark Bennett and I met him for lunch. Regarding Weber, he said he would have noticed the ears being that big. He told me that he does not remember big ears. He only remembers the hijacker having the saggy skin under the chin and he always thought they had the composite drawing was thinner than what he remembered. 

Here is what Bill Mitchell said in an email to me about Weber, "  BTW I'm thinking Jo Weber (text deleted by me)!  I told her that I didn't think her husband was D.B Cooper and she didn't believe me."

Do you still have contact with Bill Mitchell, I have suspect images including profile and he does have a "saggy turkey neck".. dark
slightly marcelled hair.. closely matches the composite

any way to have him look at them..

I replied to your PM...He would like to stay private.

His memory is faded and can't say, "that's the guy". He only remembers features. He thought the FBI sketch portrayed the hijacker with a thinner face than he remembered.

Vicki, has anyone ever asked Mitchell about Cooper's speech patterns ... how it struck him?

And Mitchell's raw impression about the man looking American or foreign.

Maybe Mark B can add to this. Mark and I met him for lunch the day I filmed for the History Channel (September 24, 2015). He only remembers certain features of the hijacker. He did not specify speech or if he looked foreign. At the time I did not ask. However, in an email to me he stated this about my father:

Here is the reply after seeing photos and videos of Melvin Wilson.

Hi Vicki,
I'm not ignoring you, I'm just been thinking and pondering my response. Again it was 43 years ago and I don't have the clear picture in my mind.  But I do remember my reaction to certain things. (as I told the FBI, I was a sophomore at University of Oregon and couldn't understand why this older guy was getting all the attention from the flight attendant!! I checked him out pretty well )
 
OK this is what I've come up with, On the plus side his cheeks, chin and neck looked more like what I thought he looked like.  I had always thought the composite drawing had his face to thin. That isn't much but that is best I can do.  I'll keep looking at the pictures and see if something else comes up.

My thought is that I probably wouldn't take this to the FBI with just my recollection of D.B. and the pictures of your Dad. I mean 43 years is a long time..  But I feel for your need to know and urgency of trying to find out about your Dad. You certainly can use my name and my thoughts on the pictures of your Dad with the FBI.  Several other people have contacted me using lawyers and newspaper people to try and get answers with the FBI.
 
Let me know if there is anything else you need or that I can do.

Bill.


I don't think we asked Bill about what Cooper sounded like at all.  It was never clear to me that he even ever heard Cooper's voice -- especially if Cooper talked in a low voice with the flight attendants.  I never thought to ask.  Like Vicki says, his memory has faded.  I think he said it was "bits and pieces" now.   He couldn't say one way or the other on the Mel Wilson photo, and I think he would have told us if he had had a strong opinion either way.

Some of Bill's memories are a little off -- as they might be for any of us who have no reason to remember specific details.  For example, he remembers it being Flo bringing the money on the plane and challenged me a little bit when I said it was Tina.

Tina and Flo (especially Tina) would have been excellent witnesses not only because they spent so much time with Cooper, but they had reason to make mental notes about his appearance and characteristics.  On top of that, I suspect the FBI would have talked to Tina when she left the plan to retrieve the money and parachutes and mentioned specific characteristics to look for.  Tina recalled the color of Cooper's socks, which strikes me as very difficult to see unless you really are trying to see that because they might not be easily visible on someone who is sitting in an airplane seat or standing so that they don't show.
 

FLYJACK

  • Guest
Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #1668 on: February 01, 2017, 03:00:40 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
post it to You Tube, or Google Drive...

it is the 30 minute audio interview from the Washington History Museum.. 58 MB,

here it is,,  does this work

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login


.
 

Offline Shutter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9300
  • Thanked: 1025 times
Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #1669 on: February 01, 2017, 03:04:50 PM »
The audio version is only a sample, but the PDF has the full interview with Bill. I have that, just not the full audio version.
 

FLYJACK

  • Guest
Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #1670 on: February 01, 2017, 03:17:49 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
The audio version is only a sample, but the PDF has the full interview with Bill. I have that, just not the full audio version.

it is 30 minutes long and matches the pdf, is there a longer version
 

Offline Shutter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9300
  • Thanked: 1025 times
Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #1671 on: February 01, 2017, 03:24:55 PM »
I'll check, but I recall it being cut off....
 

FLYJACK

  • Guest
Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #1672 on: February 01, 2017, 03:26:47 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I'll check, but I recall it being cut off....

I just listened to the linked file and compared to my copy and it seems complete..
 

Offline Shutter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9300
  • Thanked: 1025 times
Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #1673 on: February 01, 2017, 03:42:26 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I'll check, but I recall it being cut off....

I just listened to the linked file and compared to my copy and it seems complete..

Ok, it must be other audio tracks from there I'm mixing up...
 

FLYJACK

  • Guest
Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #1674 on: February 01, 2017, 04:07:42 PM »
It is very interesting, the transcript says this..

Whiting: “What about his skin tone? There’s been, you know, a lot of discussion about him being ‘swarthy,’ but I’m not clear what that means.â€
Bill Mitchell: “I didn’t notice that. I don’t recall seeing a pretty ...white guy.â€


which suggests Mitchell is indicating that the hijacker wasn't white, but if you listen to the audio interview he is clearly saying the opposite.

He thought the hijacker was "pretty,,, white,,,, guy.."
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4365
  • Thanked: 465 times
    • The Mountain News
Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #1675 on: February 01, 2017, 04:47:47 PM »
That is my take, also, based upon what Bill said to me in my interview with him.

For those who would like to review my conversation with Bill, including why he no longer wishes to speak with me, I have the full story posted here at the Forum, at the Mountain News, and in my book there is a full chapter dedicated to Bill's commentary.

As I have said numerous times throughout this forum, I have become concerned about a difference between the narratives put forth by the crew and many passengers. As part of that dynamic, I have grown increasingly skeptical of Bill Mitchell.

The salient issue is when the crew asked the passengers to move forward. Bill indicated to me that he moved early in the flight. However, all the other passengers that I've spoken with say they moved upon approach to Sea-Tac for landing. Further, they describe a rowdy passenger needing to be subdued during the flight,  and say they moved around the cabin as they circled Seattle and used the rear lavatory, and even joked with DBC and Tina.

Further, Bill won't talk with me, presumably because I wrote that Duane Weber's ears are something that he would remember if Duane was DBC, and that Jo lambasted him on the phone afterwards. Yet, his "ear" perspective is well-known. Further, Bill does agree to talk with other journalists, such as Tom Colbert, and worked extensively with LMNO and the HC people. I don't get that. Bill has never explained his selective silence to me, nor has he responded to my offer to send him a copy of my book.

As a result, I think Bill views me and my probing questions to be too problematic for him. Perhaps he has to defend himself and his relationship with me too often to the FBI and others. Bill feels defensive to me. I feel he considers me to be toxic somehow.
 

Offline Shutter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9300
  • Thanked: 1025 times
Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #1676 on: February 01, 2017, 05:24:47 PM »
Tina gave a description on the complexion being "medium, smooth" second interview "medium to dark"
Schaffer and Hancock both gave an olive complexion, but Flo also stated he was possibly of Latin decent.

Gregory gave the complexion as "swarthy" and caucasian, believed to be mexican-American with possibly American Indian blood.

"pretty..white...guy" ?
 

FLYJACK

  • Guest
Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #1677 on: February 01, 2017, 05:50:01 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Tina gave a description on the complexion being "medium, smooth" second interview "medium to dark"
Schaffer and Hancock both gave an olive complexion, but Flo also stated he was possibly of Latin decent.

Gregory gave the complexion as "swarthy" and caucasian, believed to be mexican-American with possibly American Indian blood.

"pretty..white...guy" ?

My point was about taking notes or transcriptions too literal, the intended communication may be completely different.. as that example demonstrates, they are completely opposites.
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4365
  • Thanked: 465 times
    • The Mountain News
Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #1678 on: February 01, 2017, 07:34:10 PM »
Swarthy/dark vs. a white guy. One more contrast between Bill Mitchell and other accounts.

One more element that has never been resolved is the FBI docu that states Robert Gregory was sitting in 18C. Bill has indicated that he was alone in row 18 - sitting in 18B, coat in 18A and books in 18C.

GG LOVES the Robert Gregory account, but we don't know if it is true, either. Gregory's descriptions are such an outlier: 5'8", russet jacket, mid-late 30s, etc.
 

Offline Shutter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9300
  • Thanked: 1025 times
Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #1679 on: February 01, 2017, 08:23:06 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Swarthy/dark vs. a white guy. One more contrast between Bill Mitchell and other accounts.

One more element that has never been resolved is the FBI docu that states Robert Gregory was sitting in 18C. Bill has indicated that he was alone in row 18 - sitting in 18B, coat in 18A and books in 18C.

GG LOVES the Robert Gregory account, but we don't know if it is true, either. Gregory's descriptions are such an outlier: 5'8", russet jacket, mid-late 30s, etc.

That's the problem with the passengers. they had to remember him after the fact, so descriptions are different. some guessing the height without seeing him standing?