G wrote: So far as I know - this is not a support group for Jo Weber?

If so she has picked a very unsupportive support group. We give Jo a VERY hard time. She brings it on through her wild claims and total lack of probative evidence.
You reap what you sow... and Jo has planted a lot of bad crops.

But I believe she is one of the founders of the Cooper Vortex. Wasn't it Jo who got it all started on Dropzone?

So if Jo wants to believe she was married to DB Cooper, I wont trash her for it. I wont agree but I'll let her live that fantasy. I often think that is the engine that propels her.

377

I have no idea what Jo Weber was doing or where. Im not going to argue history. I never followed Jo Weber. I knew she claimed her husband had been DBC but she was a minor figure on several small forums, but Jo was never on the same forum as Snowmman, Sluggo, Myers-Dvorak, other named people, and myself prior to Drop zone. I dont recall where you were. I was not part of Cooper Royalty, in any event, but a bystander watching-reading. The major facts were being debated where I was, several people surfaced with suspects, Snowmman was playing a major role and I found him articulate and insightful. We also had several sky divers there who were very articulate, informed, and interesting. Then Myers and Dvorak surfaced convinced Ted Mayfield of Washington was DBC and there was press coverage of that. I never was aware that Jo Weber was considered some kind of 'expert' on the Cooper hijacking - that never surfaced or was commented about where I was. Then Dvorak suddenly died in an auto accident and the Websleuth forum went into limbo. Maybe four months later Snowmman told me people had migrated to Dropzone so I went there. I have no idea what arrangement Jo Weber made with Dropzone or when, and it doesn't matter to me.

My interest is the DB Cooper Hijacking - not Jo Weber or the Jo Weber Hijacking of social media!

 

Personally? I don't think Jo is a bad person either, but she will never realize, or understand that Duane wasn't Cooper. for all we know someone could of told him a story that he believed, and that could be why he said he know's who Cooper was. once a person is gone you can build him/her into anything you wish.

It's a never ending story just like the Kenny saga. the FBI has RULED both of them out, but that doesn't seem to stop either one of them from stating that they know, or think they know who Cooper was. they have both had plenty of time with the FBI, they have both given the FBI all sorts of "evidence" and much like the Marla story, it just doesn't fly.

Robert is well ahead of anyone else to take Jo's place once she is gone. Robert will continue to push Kenny down the street as long as he can type on a computer, or Cooper is actually found. it has zip to do with "not wanting the truth" or any other silly statements they come up with.

Well, 377 keeps bringing Weber and Blevins up, as if there is some magic in this when nothing has changed (and may even be worse than it was!). That is the point I don't understand. And every time 377 does this it derails the Cooper discussion. It's like some 'Dropzone tactic' 377 is employing and why is anyone's guess. Many people have noted and commented about this over the years, especially in private emails. I have never understood what 377 is trying to accomplish by constantly bringing 'members of the DB Cooper Support Group' up? We know who they are. We know what they do and in some cases we know why they do what they do. It's all "personal" and there is nothing anyone on the internet could do about it even someone wanted to; except to advise these miscreants to put their hands on their screens and pray for "a cure" ? While the rest of the world waits patiently hoping it will all go away, some how.

Let's examine the Process. These people are engaged in an entirely different "process" than we are. We look at maps, discuss actual theory, examine history, try to cull out facts, do interviews to cull out facts, try to arrangement our thinking and arguments in a logical fashion,  etc. The support group people (1) allege facts that are not true, (2) try to connect disparate events which usually have no logical or factual connection, (3) invent and assert facts which are not true, (4) make personal attacks, and (5) refuse to discuss or even entertain anything else! The process used by Cooper Support Group people leaves no room for discussion of anything. Cooper Support Group people constantly attack others personally and want their adversaries 'banned' ... or the whole discussion group shut down! So, the very Process is different and not viable.

We have heard Jo Weber's claims that Duane was a smoke jumper, master criminal, part of the Mafia, had friends in the Mafia, was released from Jefferson City Prison to go serve with Army Rangers at buDop, a phony physical vita for Duane Weber... and the like. Her nonsensical claims about Duane are endless. Her venom extreme. She tried to have FBI Agent Larry Carr fired! And 377 wants us to discuss something rationally with this woman, or give her support here? More to the point, who is the real Jo Weber?  377's answer is: none of that matters and Jo's real background doesn't matter, and facts don't matter! Jo's attacks on people personally and her disruption of people's lives doesn't matter? 

It is virtually the same story for Robert M Blevins. His contrived factual history for Kenneth Christiansen fell apart like a figment of leaves. Then he tried to divert and disguise it all by launching personal attacks which continue to this day. 377 may be comfortable in his abode in California but we are having to deal with Blevins' "shit" and his continuing jihad almost on a daily basis ... so 377 can come here comfortably and 'ask for forgiveness for Jo ? Give us a break!    Shutter has had to waste more hours and spend more time defending this website and its members from attacks by Blevins ... than Quade ever did at Dropzone! It all costs time and energy and money $$$, in case you didn't know or care! That is Mr. Blevins' "process and shtick". Our ability to have a forum and discuss DB Cooper doesn't come free, when there are active members of the DB Cooper Support group around dispensing their crap on a daily basis! Law enforcement has even had to get involved! Shutter and others have had to defend the Liberty of this Forum on a constant basis since its founding. I think some credit for Mr. Shutter is due!

But the Process between these two groups is entirely different, with a vastly different outcome.

That about covers it. 

A quick comment...it's really about personality and common courtesy beyond the content.

There are others who have their preferred suspect and are quite confident their suspect is D.B. Cooper.

Sailshaw believes in Peterson, he makes his case often.  But, he's respectful of others who disagree and appreciates the opportunity to make his case.

The Foremans are nice as can be.  They won't push Barb Dayton on anybody.  If you ask, they'll politely make their case and and answer any questions you have.  If you don't, they'll leave you alone.

The problem with the others (who shall remain nameless) is if you disagree with them, you must either be an idiot or a liar.

We can be civil here and let other everyone make their points.

Sometimes running a forum like this is difficult.  You do a good job of herding cats, Shutter.

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A quick comment...it's really about personality and common courtesy beyond the content.

There are others who have their preferred suspect and are quite confident their suspect is D.B. Cooper.

Sailshaw believes in Peterson, he makes his case often.  But, he's respectful of others who disagree and appreciates the opportunity to make his case.

The Foremans are nice as can be.  They won't push Barb Dayton on anybody.  If you ask, they'll politely make their case and and answer any questions you have.  If you don't, they'll leave you alone.

The problem with the others (who shall remain nameless) is if you disagree with them, you must either be an idiot or a liar.

We can be civil here and let other everyone make their points.

Sometimes running a forum like this is difficult.  You do a good job of herding cats, Shutter.

I agree with both of the above. It is what it is, as a philosopher once said.

We aare here now from many backgrounds and that's all that matters - in the here and now.

We are, therefore we exist!  And I for one am rather pleased with it!

PS*  And to cover one final point, I don't recall that anyone here has EVER said one negative word about the Ariel Store, Dona Elliot, or Bryan Wodruff. It just never happened as alleged by Mr. Blevins! It's ridiculous and untrue on it's face.

...and, it's just plain mean.  Bryan is still grieving the loss of his mom, and like anyone, would be very upset to hear people were making negative comments about her.  For someone to upset him to make himself feel bigger is really pathetic.

I talked to Dona at a couple of the events.  She was a nice lady, and really enjoyed throwing the party.  Anybody was allowed to enter the DB Cooper look-alike contest, even if you just wore sunglasses.  And, everyone who entered got a prize -- a sandwich and potato salad.  She made it fun.  I also talked to Bryan and although I don't remember him much, he was nice enough to me.

Nobody here EVER said anything disrespectful about either of them, and I am offended that someone suggested we did.  Especially since that someone knows better.

I agree with Bruce Smith's comment on another thread: when Cooper is unmasked it will be someone we have never heard of.  I think LD Cooper showed that if given a good suspect the FBI is still interested and will move fast.

Currently halfway through Skyjack! Read the publicly released FBI interviews.  Interesting how they differ from all the interpretations out there. 

A few things I noted about DB while reading:
1 - Didn't demonstrate any real knowledge about the 727 other than it could fly with the aft stairs down.  Either he didn't know the stairs could be lowered in flight or he had another reason to want them down, like to ensure they stayed within 10,000 feet.
2 - Comfortable working with parachutes
3 - Not a drinker
4 - Didn't seem like a loner, was comfortable around people and in social situations.  If was a career criminal then he must have been a confidence man and not the mafia or street thug type. Seemed to be somewhat educated
5 - What was in the paper bag he had with him?  Goggles?  Footwear?
6 - Why was he so insistent that the crew stay up front and not watch what he was doing?  To conceal his actual jump time?  To delay pursuit for as long as possible?
7 - Seemed like a well planned job.  The only weakness was his choice of footwear and we don't know what else he had on the plane.  The stewardess's only mentioned seeing the attache case and paper sack.  Would we know if he had other luggage with him? 

Comfortable in the sense that he seemed to know what to expect and went right to work tearing up one of the chutes to tie up the bank bag.  Just going by my lack of knowledge of parachutes and the idea that I would be in awe at the chutes and wouldn't just set out to cannibalize one right away.  Then again, I am familiar with banks and money bags not so much parachutes.

Do we know that DB knew the stairs could be lowered in flight?  He wanted them lowered on takeoff.  According to Gray's book, it was the pilots that told him he would have to lower the stairs in flight but not before.

I agree with Bruce Smith's comment on another thread: when Cooper is unmasked it will be someone we have never heard of.  I think LD Cooper showed that if given a good suspect the FBI is still interested and will move fast.

Currently halfway through Skyjack! Read the publicly released FBI interviews.  Interesting how they differ from all the interpretations out there. 

A few things I noted about DB while reading:
1 - Didn't demonstrate any real knowledge about the 727 other than it could fly with the aft stairs down.  Either he didn't know the stairs could be lowered in flight or he had another reason to want them down, like to ensure they stayed within 10,000 feet.
2 - Comfortable working with parachutes
3 - Not a drinker
4 - Didn't seem like a loner, was comfortable around people and in social situations.  If was a career criminal then he must have been a confidence man and not the mafia or street thug type. Seemed to be somewhat educated
5 - What was in the paper bag he had with him?  Goggles?  Footwear?
6 - Why was he so insistent that the crew stay up front and not watch what he was doing?  To conceal his actual jump time?  To delay pursuit for as long as possible?
7 - Seemed like a well planned job.  The only weakness was his choice of footwear and we don't know what else he had on the plane.  The stewardess's only mentioned seeing the attache case and paper sack.  Would we know if he had other luggage with him?

Here are some comments for the indicated number:

1.  Cooper did have some unique information related to the 727.  He specified the altitude, speed, landing gear position, and flap setting for the airliner during the flight south.  Keeping the landing gear down was one means to limit the speed.  Keeping the rear bulkhead door open, and the stairs unlocked, insured that the aircraft cabin could not be pressurized and this limited the altitude.  After the argument with the copilot about taking off with the stairs down, he agreed to leave them up but reportedly told the stewardess that he knew the airliner could take off with them down.  Cooper may have wanted to jump within a few minutes of the take off from Seattle.

2.  Cooper may have had experience wearing emergency parachutes, but he did not appear to be knowledgeable about skydiving rigs.

3.  Not a heavy drinker or smoker.  Ckret wrote that Cooper had one drink and spilled most of it.  And that he smoked less than 10 cigarettes in the 5+ hours that he was under observation.

5.  Unknown contents of the small bag.

6.  Law enforcement people sometimes became part of the flight crews of hijacked airliners.  And some of those LE crew members were actually capable of flying the aircraft.  If the possibility had presented itself, I'm sure that LE would have taken Cooper into custody one way or the other.

7.  The hijacking was very poorly planned.  Cooper wasn't specific enough about wanting skydiver parachute rigs, he didn't realize that one of the reserve chutes was a dummy for training only, he didn't know how to lower the rear stairs, and had difficulty doing so even after being instructed on the matter by the stewardess.  He did not have any other luggage with him when he checked in and bought his ticket.  He could not have smuggled anything else on board from Portland.

Finally, it was mostly luck that Cooper got the money in the first place.  Cooper specified that the airliner was not to land in Seattle until the money was available and he wanted it by 5:00 PM.  Sunset in Seattle that day was about 4:45 PM.  He didn't get the money until about 7:15 PM and was fortunate that the banks hadn't already set their vaults on time locks so that they couldn't be opened until the day after Thanksgiving.

All of this meant that Cooper's jump was going to be at night over some lousy woods and mountains, unless he could jump very close to Seattle.  Say in the area of McChord AFB and Fort Lewis.

I agree with Bruce Smith's comment on another thread: when Cooper is unmasked it will be someone we have never heard of.  I think LD Cooper showed that if given a good suspect the FBI is still interested and will move fast.

Currently halfway through Skyjack! Read the publicly released FBI interviews.  Interesting how they differ from all the interpretations out there. 

A few things I noted about DB while reading:
1 - Didn't demonstrate any real knowledge about the 727 other than it could fly with the aft stairs down.  Either he didn't know the stairs could be lowered in flight or he had another reason to want them down, like to ensure they stayed within 10,000 feet.
2 - Comfortable working with parachutes
3 - Not a drinker
4 - Didn't seem like a loner, was comfortable around people and in social situations.  If was a career criminal then he must have been a confidence man and not the mafia or street thug type. Seemed to be somewhat educated
5 - What was in the paper bag he had with him?  Goggles?  Footwear?
6 - Why was he so insistent that the crew stay up front and not watch what he was doing?  To conceal his actual jump time?  To delay pursuit for as long as possible?
7 - Seemed like a well planned job.  The only weakness was his choice of footwear and we don't know what else he had on the plane.  The stewardess's only mentioned seeing the attache case and paper sack.  Would we know if he had other luggage with him?

+1   and I still maintain he was very sharp in sorting out Flo from Tina and choosing Tina (the lower risk more compliant personality).

Stay tuned. More may follow in the up coming documentary, or whatever it is. Effort has been made to interview people for that show. I know because I was consulted, along with others. Just stay tuned. Im hoping for the best.