Author Topic: Suspects And Confessions (Read 1637286 times)

Robert99 · « **Reply #1050 on:** February 24, 2016, 12:01:02 AM »

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...If Cooper had pulled the rip cord while standing at the bottom of the stairs, he would have gotten the worst opening shock possible since the airliner was doing about 225 MPH at that point....

R99, I believe the aircraft was traveling around 180 mph when Cooper left the plane. Remember, this would have been after Rataczak had increased the flaps to 30 degrees, which was prior to Cooper descending the stairs.

At the time Cooper jumped, the airliner was in level flight at 10,000 feet above sea level. The speed shown on the aircraft airspeed indicator is known. And correcting that airspeed to True Airspeed (the aircraft's speed with respect to the ambient air) gives a value of 225 Miles Per Hour (or very close to it).

225 mph is a very high exit speed. I did at test jump from a firewalled C-130A. Rough, but not even close to deadly. I'd estimate the speed was around 320 mph plus. The A wasn't as fast as subsequent models with more powerful engines.

If DBC pulled off the stairs with a C-9 canopy, even if the speed was 225 mph, I'd bet big odds that the canopy deployed without significant damage and delivered a live uninjured jumper to terra firma, (or hydro infirma if his luck was bad).

377

377, Are you saying you pulled the rip cord at 320+ MPH? Did you wait a few (5 or 10) seconds after exiting the aircraft before pulling the rip cord?

Most personnel parachutes today for high performance aircraft crewmembers are still listed as being rated for about 225 MPH. However, if the aircraft has ejection seats that can really add some altitude to the seat (and the roll angle is not to bad), then successful ejections can and have been made at ground level at speeds of 600+ MPH. Just a very few seconds of the crew member being exposed to the ambient air will reduce his speed by about half.

A few decades ago, one of the solo pilots for the USAF Thunderbirds had a wing failure during a 6g pull up from a very low level 600+ MPH pass at an airshow. He ejected, his parachute was damaged, and he may have also had some injuries. But he survived and went on to become the USAF Chief of Staff with four stars.

sailshaw · « **Reply #1051 on:** February 24, 2016, 10:26:06 AM »

Robert O 99: Just to refresh your first scientific study of physics. The relative air speed next to the Airstairs was close to zero and the "burble" of air just following the Airstairs (say up to 30 ft from the plane) would increase from relative zero to 225 mph, that is a quick but smooth transition and not to hard to survive as 377 agrees plus the chute is deployed and the skydiver does not tumble, just a quick departure and acceleration to 225 mph in the first 30 ft of the "burble".

Andrade1812: You say: " According to Kaye, the tie found on Cooper's seat was worn frequently by someone who worked in an environment where they could pick up certain particles, including the titanium. If Sheridan is Cooper, than we should be able to find photos of him wearing the tie (or at least, as similar as can be implied with old B&W photos). "
I say: "Yes and all the particles could be found in the scrap bins all around the Boeing Materials and Processes Lab (M&P Lab) including both types of Titanium (pure and alloy) in the 9-101 bldg where Sheridan's office was located just above the lab and on the second floor. The workers in the lab did not wear ties as a safety measure from the rotating machinery in the M&P Lab. Sheridan did an advertisement in the Boeing News (July 12, 1962) wearing the same style suit, shirt, loafers and tie prior to Norjak. So, I have that black and white photo of Sheridan but it is too large a file to post here unless Shutter has a way to make the file smaller. I could send that file to you by e-mail in its large file configuration if you would send me your e-mail address."

Bob Sailshaw
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Robert99 · « **Reply #1052 on:** February 24, 2016, 12:40:25 PM »

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Robert O 99: Just to refresh your first scientific study of physics. The relative air speed next to the Airstairs was close to zero and the "burble" of air just following the Airstairs (say up to 30 ft from the plane) would increase from relative zero to 225 mph, that is a quick but smooth transition and not to hard to survive as 377 agrees plus the chute is deployed and the skydiver does not tumble, just a quick departure and acceleration to 225 mph in the first 30 ft of the "burble".

Andrade1812: You say: " According to Kaye, the tie found on Cooper's seat was worn frequently by someone who worked in an environment where they could pick up certain particles, including the titanium. If Sheridan is Cooper, than we should be able to find photos of him wearing the tie (or at least, as similar as can be implied with old B&W photos). "
I say: "Yes and all the particles could be found in the scrap bins all around the Boeing Materials and Processes Lab (M&P Lab) including both types of Titanium (pure and alloy) in the 9-101 bldg where Sheridan's office was located just above the lab and on the second floor. The workers in the lab did not wear ties as a safety measure from the rotating machinery in the M&P Lab. Sheridan did an advertisement in the Boeing News (July 12, 1962) wearing the same style suit, shirt, loafers and tie prior to Norjak. So, I have that black and white photo of Sheridan but it is too large a file to post here unless Shutter has a way to make the file smaller. I could send that file to you by e-mail in its large file configuration if you would send me your e-mail address."

Bob Sailshaw
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Sailshaw, 377 has posted previously (probably on DZ) about his experiences in exiting a DC-9 with the rear stairs removed. Perhaps he will be willing to refresh your memory on the subject.

377 · « **Reply #1053 on:** February 24, 2016, 01:16:36 PM »

377, Are you saying you pulled the rip cord at 320+ MPH? Did you wait a few (5 or 10) seconds after exiting the aircraft before pulling the rip cord?

Nope, didn't pull immediately, in fact waited 60 seconds to pull. My rectangular ram air Triathlon 190 is only rated for 150 mph openings.

Slowed down to 120 terminal velocity. It's odd jumping out of a fast plane and slowing down as you freefall.

Would I have pulled a C-9 immediately? Nope, too violent and they weren't paying me enough for any trauma or drama. In fact, all I got for the test jump was a company T-shirt.

The plane I jumped from was made in 1958, a really ancient C-130A, RAAF surplus. N131EC.

The DC 9-21 jet jump wasn't difficult. In fact some tandem jumps were made from it, even one with a naked young woman tandem passenger that I was forced to witness.

I still get a kick out of the Capt's announcement before jump run: Ladies and gentlemen, this is your captain speaking. You do NOT have to wait until the plane comes to a complete stop at the gate before exiting your seats.

377

Shutter · « **Reply #1054 on:** February 24, 2016, 01:22:58 PM »

Quote

The plane I jumped from was made in 1958, a really ancient C-130A, RAAF surplus. N131EC.

Aircraft Summary
Summary   Owner   Airworthiness   Serial Number
1958 LOCKHEED C-130A
Fixed wing multi engine
(9 seats / 4 engines)   JNS AIRCRAFT SALES LLC
NARA VISA , NM, US
(Corporation)   Restricted   3212
Engine   Weight   Speed   Mode S Code
ALLISON T56A11 SER (Turbo-prop)
Horsepower: 4900   Over 20,000lbs   262mph   050077517 / A07F4F

Registration Details
Status   Certificate Issue Date   Airworthiness Date   Last Action Date   Expiration
Assigned   2013-01-11   2005-09-20   2015-08-14   2019-01-31

Registration History
Date   Owner   Location
11-Jan-2013   JNS AIRCRAFT SALES LLC   NARA VISA NM
06-Feb-2012   CHERRY AIR AVIATION SERVICES INC   ALEXANDRIA LA
02-Jun-2006   CHERRY AIR AVIATION SERVICES INC   BOYCE LA

377 · « **Reply #1055 on:** February 24, 2016, 05:49:34 PM »

Thanks for the N131EC C-130 info Shutter.

Earl Cherry bought the plane in the US after it had been sitting dormant at a desert airfield for years. The legend has it that the ferry crew just changed a few tires, put new fluids in and flew it to a new home without any additional repairs. I spoke with Earl about the 3 bladed props which all other old Hercs had replaced with big paddle bladed 4 blade props. Earl had no intention of replacing them as they had low hours and were actually more efficient below 17,000 feet than were the newer props.

Looks like she has a new owner now. Wonder what it will be used for?

377

Shutter · « **Reply #1056 on:** February 24, 2016, 05:52:06 PM »

I'll see what I can dig up....

377 · « **Reply #1057 on:** February 24, 2016, 05:57:56 PM »

Here is an inadvertent "deploy off the stairs (C-130 ramp)" video. No harm and live landing. No unstable freefall tumbling.

377

377 · « **Reply #1058 on:** February 24, 2016, 06:04:04 PM »

And here is a nice example of canopy squidding. Looks like no significant opening shock, just a gradual smooth deceleration.

377

377 · « **Reply #1059 on:** February 24, 2016, 06:06:49 PM »

So I can't prove that Cooper pulled of the stairs, but of he did, it would have solved a lot of problems and practically guaranteed that he landed alive. If DBC knew of the Thailand 727 jumps he might have figured it out.

377

georger · « **Reply #1060 on:** February 25, 2016, 12:14:56 AM »

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So I can't prove that Cooper pulled of the stairs, but of he did, it would have solved a lot of problems and practically guaranteed that he landed alive. If DBC knew of the Thailand 727 jumps he might have figured it out.

377

In the above video some of the jumpers have packs on a tether, but it appears they let those packs free to drop on the tether after the chute has deployed? Is that the standard practice?

377 · « **Reply #1061 on:** February 25, 2016, 12:41:51 PM »

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So I can't prove that Cooper pulled of the stairs, but of he did, it would have solved a lot of problems and practically guaranteed that he landed alive. If DBC knew of the Thailand 727 jumps he might have figured it out.

377

In the above video some of the jumpers have packs on a tether, but it appears they let those packs free to drop on the tether after the chute has deployed? Is that the standard practice?

I've never been a military paratrooper but my friend who served in the 82nd Airborne said he made many jumps in which a heavy carried load was lowered on a lanyard before landing. When the suspended load hits the ground it unloads the canopy causing a softer landing for the parachutist who lands without that weight.

377

georger · « **Reply #1062 on:** February 25, 2016, 02:07:56 PM »

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So I can't prove that Cooper pulled of the stairs, but of he did, it would have solved a lot of problems and practically guaranteed that he landed alive. If DBC knew of the Thailand 727 jumps he might have figured it out.

377

In the above video some of the jumpers have packs on a tether, but it appears they let those packs free to drop on the tether after the chute has deployed? Is that the standard practice?

I've never been a military paratrooper but my friend who served in the 82nd Airborne said he made many jumps in which a heavy carried load was lowered on a lanyard before landing. When the suspended load hits the ground it unloads the canopy causing a softer landing for the parachutist who lands without that weight.

377

That technique makes sense. Where are the 'heavy loads on tether' held prior to letting the tether out; around the waste?

I doubt the Cooper money bag would have qualified as a 'heavy load'. There would have been no reason for him to have it on a tether ?

377 · « **Reply #1063 on:** February 25, 2016, 02:26:39 PM »

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So I can't prove that Cooper pulled of the stairs, but of he did, it would have solved a lot of problems and practically guaranteed that he landed alive. If DBC knew of the Thailand 727 jumps he might have figured it out.

377

In the above video some of the jumpers have packs on a tether, but it appears they let those packs free to drop on the tether after the chute has deployed? Is that the standard practice?

I've never been a military paratrooper but my friend who served in the 82nd Airborne said he made many jumps in which a heavy carried load was lowered on a lanyard before landing. When the suspended load hits the ground it unloads the canopy causing a softer landing for the parachutist who lands without that weight.

377

That technique makes sense. Where are the 'heavy loads on tether' held prior to letting the tether out; around the waste?

I doubt the Cooper money bag would have qualified as a 'heavy load'. There would have been no reason for him to have it on a tether ?

The loads are generally carried in front below the chest reserve container. Coopers loot wasn't heavy enough (only about 22 lbs) to justify using this lanyard technique.

377

georger · « **Reply #1064 on:** February 26, 2016, 12:01:22 AM »

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So I can't prove that Cooper pulled of the stairs, but of he did, it would have solved a lot of problems and practically guaranteed that he landed alive. If DBC knew of the Thailand 727 jumps he might have figured it out.

377

In the above video some of the jumpers have packs on a tether, but it appears they let those packs free to drop on the tether after the chute has deployed? Is that the standard practice?

I've never been a military paratrooper but my friend who served in the 82nd Airborne said he made many jumps in which a heavy carried load was lowered on a lanyard before landing. When the suspended load hits the ground it unloads the canopy causing a softer landing for the parachutist who lands without that weight.

377

That technique makes sense. Where are the 'heavy loads on tether' held prior to letting the tether out; around the waste?

I doubt the Cooper money bag would have qualified as a 'heavy load'. There would have been no reason for him to have it on a tether ?

The loads are generally carried in front below the chest reserve container. Coopers loot wasn't heavy enough (only about 22 lbs) to justify using this lanyard technique.

377

... still you have to give him credit for knowing how to tie things off. As we discussed many times, the weak link was his noose around the neck of the bag. That could have lost him the money right there ...

Author Topic: Suspects And Confessions (Read 1637286 times)

Robert99

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sailshaw

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Robert99

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377

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Shutter

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377

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Shutter

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377

Re: Suspects And Confessions

377

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377

Re: Suspects And Confessions

georger

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377

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georger

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377

Re: Suspects And Confessions

georger

Re: Suspects And Confessions